I have a Polis Massan and she has the doctor tree.

So where is the Xenology on that list of skills? But Medic has the skill?

Not every Colonist has "seen the universe". Some are pretty local minded.

The Medic is in the Rebellion, an organization with a ton of Aliens.

Not every Colonist has "seen the universe". Some are pretty local minded.

The Medic is in the Rebellion, an organization with a ton of Aliens.

That's very true, but by its very nature, the Doctor spec implies an academic background in the field...which I would think inmost cases would also imply an awareness of the larger galaxy.

It seems like a bit of cart-before-horse to suggest that all doctors on the rim (or even the majority of them) wouldn't reasonably have at least a passing familiarity (if not an outright formal education in) Xenology. To me, those Doctors that do hail from isolated, human-dominated rim worlds would be better covered by a combination of having Xenology as a skill but those particular Doctors not being trained in it, rather than the limitation of scope placed on the demographic at large.

That being said, medical training does not necessarily imply extensive training in Xenology...as a GM, I'd probably allow an expenditure of 5 starting XP to add Kno (Xeno) as a spec skill for the purposes of starting ranks and call it a day.

And the Doctor has Education and the Medic doesn't.

The two, while filling the same party role, do so differently. Check it out. The Doc is a guy that's trained, educated. He's read the books and was on his way to a primo Directorship at the Mayo Space Clinic until that incident with his sister and the ISB special programs section sent them both packing out into the rim. He's a smart cookie, but it's more of that book learnin' stuff.

The Doc has talents like surgeon, allowing him to heal better when making that one medicine check per encounter and Bacta Spec to make that expensive gear work right. And Stim application to provide boosts. He's got skills like education and core worlds to know how to sift through the medical library and core worlds to know who's who and Charm to make sure his bedside manner is up to snuff when Senator Brickabrack shows up needing a liver implant.

The medic on the other hand is a Soldier who happens to be good at patching people up. He can shoot, dig a foxhole, and can keep you from bleeding out, but he's no Doc. Today he's slapping HyperClot on a blasterburn in a firefight, yesterday he was vaccinating the local Gungan population against Derpubonic Plague as part of a hearts and minds campaign.

He's got Surgeon and Bacta, but not as good as the real Doc does. Instead he's also got Stim Specialist, so those stimpacks work better and hopefully you don't get a real hit. If you do, he can rub some dirt on and tell you it ain't that bad and to quit screaming, but when it comes time for that medicine check, an experienced Doc is probably what you really want. He knows how to stick the sqiggly bit onto that leaky bit inside a Ning-ning because he's been around, but if he ever comes across a trooper suffering from exposure to the Inferno-19 Bioweapon, it's likely the guy's skin will liquefy before the medic can even figure out which hospital has the records on how they cured it back in the 13th Sith Crusade....

The Doc is a guy that's trained, educated. He's read the books and was on his way to a primo Directorship at the Mayo Space Clinic until that incident with his sister and the ISB special programs section sent them both packing out into the rim. He's a smart cookie, but it's more of that book learnin' stuff.

♪Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand...♪

Not to mention Xenology covers non medical rolls too, like cultural and taboo things, that frankly wouldn't automatically be something a doctor knows. Personally, I would just let them use their Medicine skill for anything specifically related to dealing with treating an alien, and maybe toss a setback or two for it being something outside their usual sphere of operation. To give an example of how to come at the same result from 2 skills:

One player rolls Xenology, and learns that feeding a Solustan a particular type of food is very taboo, and would offend the delegate a lot. He doesn't know exactly why, he just has heard that Solustans don't like seafood (random example, I don't actually know what they don't eat). The Doctor however, using his Medicine check, knows that it's because their digestive system isn't capable of processing marine life, and it is very uncomfortable, potentially life threatening for them to eat it.

Both ways lead to the end result of "Don't feed him fish!" They just come at it from two different routes.

Since Xenology covers social/cultural roles about aliens too, there is no reason to think a Doctor career knows it. For example, Simon from Firefly, knows jack about how people behave and act out on the Rim, but he knows how to heal them. He'd be a Doctor with a high Medicine skill, and very low Xenology. Always slightly awkward, and out of place....until someone starts bleeding, and then he knows what to do.

This is actually something I was messing around with my character in the Edge of Darkness campaign that is on the boards. While it may not seem too different on the outside, the Doctor Specialization and the Medic Specialization are actually different enough to no be the same. In addition, when combined with the Healer Specialization from Force and Destiny, you can have a pretty effective healer, but not much more than that.

This is actually something I was messing around with my character in the Edge of Darkness campaign that is on the boards. While it may not seem too different on the outside, the Doctor Specialization and the Medic Specialization are actually different enough to no be the same. In addition, when combined with the Healer Specialization from Force and Destiny, you can have a pretty effective healer, but not much more than that.

I would say someone that is a Doctor/Medic/Healer build is significant more than a "pretty effective" healer. By that point, they'd be insanely effective at healing.

This is actually something I was messing around with my character in the Edge of Darkness campaign that is on the boards. While it may not seem too different on the outside, the Doctor Specialization and the Medic Specialization are actually different enough to no be the same. In addition, when combined with the Healer Specialization from Force and Destiny, you can have a pretty effective healer, but not much more than that.

I would say someone that is a Doctor/Medic/Healer build is significant more than a "pretty effective" healer. By that point, they'd be insanely effective at healing.

Yeah, at that point a casualty could walk in holding their head with a dozen other wounds, be given Motrin and told to drink, and be healed up in five minutes.

Man, that would be nice. Heck, maybe I should ask about that...

If medic had the pressure point talent it might have been my favorite spec. I think that FFG decided that pressure point was too abusable and it's not going to appear in another spec that has it

If medic had the pressure point talent it might have been my favorite spec. I think that FFG decided that pressure point was too abusable and it's not going to appear in another spec that has it

I'll again remind others that a far less broken version of Pressure Point appears as a talent option for Inquisitors. I treat it as "stealth errata" for the Doctor tree.

If medic had the pressure point talent it might have been my favorite spec. I think that FFG decided that pressure point was too abusable and it's not going to appear in another spec that has it

I'll again remind others that a far less broken version of Pressure Point appears as a talent option for Inquisitors. I treat it as "stealth errata" for the Doctor tree.

I hadn't seen this... I own all the books released so far from all three lines but have only skimmed FAD, could you provide a book and page number reference?

If medic had the pressure point talent it might have been my favorite spec. I think that FFG decided that pressure point was too abusable and it's not going to appear in another spec that has it

I'll again remind others that a far less broken version of Pressure Point appears as a talent option for Inquisitors. I treat it as "stealth errata" for the Doctor tree.

I hadn't seen this... I own all the books released so far from all three lines but have only skimmed FAD, could you provide a book and page number reference?

It's in the FaD Core, Adversary section, under the talent options for Inquisitors. AFB right now, so no page number.

If medic had the pressure point talent it might have been my favorite spec. I think that FFG decided that pressure point was too abusable and it's not going to appear in another spec that has it

I'll again remind others that a far less broken version of Pressure Point appears as a talent option for Inquisitors. I treat it as "stealth errata" for the Doctor tree.

I hadn't seen this... I own all the books released so far from all three lines but have only skimmed FAD, could you provide a book and page number reference?

It's in the FaD Core, Adversary section, under the talent options for Inquisitors. AFB right now, so no page number.

maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing a rules difference between the two "versions" of the talent

When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak.

When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the Inquisitor may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak.

If medic had the pressure point talent it might have been my favorite spec. I think that FFG decided that pressure point was too abusable and it's not going to appear in another spec that has it

I'll again remind others that a far less broken version of Pressure Point appears as a talent option for Inquisitors. I treat it as "stealth errata" for the Doctor tree.

I hadn't seen this... I own all the books released so far from all three lines but have only skimmed FAD, could you provide a book and page number reference?

It's in the FaD Core, Adversary section, under the talent options for Inquisitors. AFB right now, so no page number.

maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing a rules difference between the two "versions" of the talent

When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak.

When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the Inquisitor may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak.

In the Doctor's Talent tree Pressure Point just states "an opponent" whereas the talent description for the Inquisitor says "living opponent." However, in the Talents chapter of EotE, where the talents are fully described, Pressure Point has the exact same "living opponent" wording as the Inquisitor. The difference being that Droid characters, PC or NPC, are not living creatures and therefore cannot be affected by Pressure Point. The wording of the Talent in the Doctor tree leads one to believe that droids are included as it states "an opponent," not "a living opponent." I'm guessing that's where he is getting the brokenness from.

The error is mine. I'd seen a much more reasonable house rule (Pressure Point adds Stun X [X equals ranks in Medicine] to unarmed Brawl attacks) and had somehow thought that it was from the FaD section I mentioned. Since that's not the case, Pressure Point remains--in the RAW--terribly easy to abuse.

The error is mine. I'd seen a much more reasonable house rule (Pressure Point adds Stun X [X equals ranks in Medicine] to unarmed Brawl attacks) and had somehow thought that it was from the FaD section I mentioned. Since that's not the case, Pressure Point remains--in the RAW--terribly easy to abuse.

If the house rule is going the way I'm thinking it does, I'm guessing Pressure Point would require Advantage to trigger as it has the active Stun quality to it. But does that house rule still retain Pressure Point's ability to forgo Wound damage and deal all the damage as Strain damage? I can see the house rule restoring soak, the RAW ignoring soak is a little bit steep since strain damage kills minions rivals pretty good.

If I'm wrong, how does the house rule work different than from RAW?

The error is mine. I'd seen a much more reasonable house rule (Pressure Point adds Stun X [X equals ranks in Medicine] to unarmed Brawl attacks) and had somehow thought that it was from the FaD section I mentioned. Since that's not the case, Pressure Point remains--in the RAW--terribly easy to abuse.

If the house rule is going the way I'm thinking it does, I'm guessing Pressure Point would require Advantage to trigger as it has the active Stun quality to it. But does that house rule still retain Pressure Point's ability to forgo Wound damage and deal all the damage as Strain damage? I can see the house rule restoring soak, the RAW ignoring soak is a little bit steep since strain damage kills minions rivals pretty good.

If I'm wrong, how does the house rule work different than from RAW?

It would require 2 Advantage (or 1 Triumph) to trigger since it effectively adds Stun X as a weapon quality to the character's unarmed Brawl attacks. All Brawl attacks--unless specifically noted otherwise--can inflict wither Wound or Strain. While the Stun portion would still ignore Soak (it's a property of the Stun quality), the base damage (including increases from various talents) would not. That's where this version balances out better than the RAW. Incidentally, this version would also allow the unarmed strike to inflict Wounds (if desired) and still have the option to activate Stun.

The error is mine. I'd seen a much more reasonable house rule (Pressure Point adds Stun X [X equals ranks in Medicine] to unarmed Brawl attacks) and had somehow thought that it was from the FaD section I mentioned. Since that's not the case, Pressure Point remains--in the RAW--terribly easy to abuse.

If the house rule is going the way I'm thinking it does, I'm guessing Pressure Point would require Advantage to trigger as it has the active Stun quality to it. But does that house rule still retain Pressure Point's ability to forgo Wound damage and deal all the damage as Strain damage? I can see the house rule restoring soak, the RAW ignoring soak is a little bit steep since strain damage kills minions rivals pretty good.

If I'm wrong, how does the house rule work different than from RAW?

It would require 2 Advantage (or 1 Triumph) to trigger since it effectively adds Stun X as a weapon quality to the character's unarmed Brawl attacks. All Brawl attacks--unless specifically noted otherwise--can inflict wither Wound or Strain. While the Stun portion would still ignore Soak (it's a property of the Stun quality), the base damage (including increases from various talents) would not. That's where this version balances out better than the RAW. Incidentally, this version would also allow the unarmed strike to inflict Wounds (if desired) and still have the option to activate Stun.

I like needing 2 Advantage to trigger the extra damage. I'll keep that in mind if I ever have a Player take the Doctor spec and get to that talent.

Hmm... since FFG repeated pressure point as an npc talent... I think it's an indication that they don't think that there's a problem with the talent itself (they may think that there is a problem putting in a spec that has brawl as a career skill)