Let me be clear, this isn't a complaint thread.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

When I see da Goomba I fully expect a long winded gripe about something. Once again I wasn't disappointed. But when it's dissing my fav Bombers and Defenders it makes me sad.

Blade mercurial's 6-3 record in the deep core vassal league would disagree with the opinion that 3 defenders suck.

"Let me be clear, this isn't a complaint thread."

1) All of these triple Defender lists everyone is excited for? Meh.

2) Countess Ryad? Useless pilot skill, and the Defender already has a white 4k so it being green doesn't really matter. I guess it means PtL is good on her, but PS 5 sucks. Guri's ability is great too but she's PS 5. Nope, in the trash she goes.

3) TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

What you will see a bunch of is this:

31 point standard Inquisitor

OGP with Palpatine

Vessery with X7, VI, Engine Upgrade

Inquisitor is great, Palp is great, Vessery gets freebie TL's and evades, so is free to boost if needed. Both of these ships hit super hard with Palpatine, and they're great defensively with Palpatine.

Let me be clear, this isn't a complaint thread. Once Veterans hits, don't be stunned that Palp Aces still remains top dog and 4) Veterans has changed nothing.

Vessery can do that same combo at a higher PS, and with no stress involved. If Vessery is stressed he still can do the free evade and TL. Ryad gets bumped ir stressed you only get the free evade.

5) So again, what is so special about Ryad? What is so great about a green K-Turn when I can do a white one /while stressed/ and still get a free TL and evade token with Vessery and VI for 1 point less than Ryad with PtL?

I get that having a 2k is good, but it's not worth the 6) garbage pilot skill. Vessery with VI and an initiative bid can move last after a ton of things.

7) Ask yourself, how often do you see Guri?

You should remove the G from your name so your initials would be PoS.

"I can't fly it well, therefore no one can, so it can't be good, and FFG is just wasting my time."

"Let me be clear, this isn't a complaint thread."

1) All of these triple Defender lists everyone is excited for? Meh.

2) Countess Ryad? Useless pilot skill, and the Defender already has a white 4k so it being green doesn't really matter. I guess it means PtL is good on her, but PS 5 sucks. Guri's ability is great too but she's PS 5. Nope, in the trash she goes.

3) TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

What you will see a bunch of is this:

31 point standard Inquisitor

OGP with Palpatine

Vessery with X7, VI, Engine Upgrade

Inquisitor is great, Palp is great, Vessery gets freebie TL's and evades, so is free to boost if needed. Both of these ships hit super hard with Palpatine, and they're great defensively with Palpatine.

Let me be clear, this isn't a complaint thread. Once Veterans hits, don't be stunned that Palp Aces still remains top dog and 4) Veterans has changed nothing.

Vessery can do that same combo at a higher PS, and with no stress involved. If Vessery is stressed he still can do the free evade and TL. Ryad gets bumped ir stressed you only get the free evade.

5) So again, what is so special about Ryad? What is so great about a green K-Turn when I can do a white one /while stressed/ and still get a free TL and evade token with Vessery and VI for 1 point less than Ryad with PtL?

I get that having a 2k is good, but it's not worth the 6) garbage pilot skill. Vessery with VI and an initiative bid can move last after a ton of things.

7) Ask yourself, how often do you see Guri?

You should remove the G from your name so your initials would be PoS.

"I can't fly it well, therefore no one can, so it can't be good, and FFG is just wasting my time."

That explains all the rage against PWT's.

I don't know about triple Defenders, but Brath and Ryad with Twin Ion MK II and Outmaneuver could be quite deadly. Time will tell.

the whole imperial ace thing is getting real old.

Unless its a crackswarm, ywing swarm, z95 swarm or some big ship + 1 buddy, wtf ISNT an "Ace" in this **** game?

Of course the imperials are getting another "ace" wtf else would we get, another spammable shmuck to replace the TIE Fighters?

All of these triple Defender lists everyone is excited for? Meh.

Countess Ryad? Useless pilot skill, and the Defender already has a white 4k so it being green doesn't really matter. I guess it means PtL is good on her, but PS 5 sucks. Guri's ability is great too but she's PS 5. Nope, in the trash she goes.

TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

What you will see a bunch of is this:

31 point standard Inquisitor

OGP with Palpatine

Vessery with X7, VI, Engine Upgrade

Inquisitor is great, Palp is great, Vessery gets freebie TL's and evades, so is free to boost if needed. Both of these ships hit super hard with Palpatine, and they're great defensively with Palpatine.

Let me be clear, this isn't a complaint thread. Once Veterans hits, don't be stunned that Palp Aces still remains top dog and Veterans has changed nothing.

My current 9-1 record with my triple defenders list would disagree that they're "meh". There's definitely good combos with vessery and other ace pilots as well, but triple defenders can definitely be a strong list. And ryad's ability has been amazing.

Have been proxying Countess since she was revealed. She is far from useless. In fact, she is my favorite Defender, passing even Vessery. Mid-PS keeps her from being absolutely broken. She dominates anything lower PS than her. The ability to constantly k-turn and have focus, TL, and evade when running her with PTL and x7 is something that even higher PS ships cannot keep up with. She will be a staple Defender in many lists and is an amazing TL buddy for Vessery. While Vessery is probably the best coming out of IV, I can't say that Ryad is very far behind. She almost always has the three actions mentioned previously. Her action economy is up there with the Inquisitor when going at speed 3 or higher. I cannot see how anyone who has actually played her can dismiss her as useless.

Vessery can do that same combo at a higher PS, and with no stress involved. If Vessery is stressed he still can do the free evade and TL. Ryad gets bumped ir stressed you only get the free evade.

So again, what is so special about Ryad? What is so great about a green K-Turn when I can do a white one /while stressed/ and still get a free TL and evade token with Vessery and VI for 1 point less than Ryad with PtL?

I get that having a 2k is good, but it's not worth the garbage pilot skill. Vessery with VI and an initiative bid can move last after a ton of things.

Ask yourself, how often do you see Guri?

Vessery gets a free TL IF you have one from someone else. So he pairs best with OL or a TIE Advanced that won't be spending it's TL. With someone like the inquisitor, you have to shoot first, have the same target in arc that round, and if inquis gets blocked and can't TL that round, no TL for vessery either, same as ryad if she gets blocked. Sure you can TL with palp as well (as long as he survives). Also, Ryad's a better finisher than Vessery. If vessery's the last ship left, no more free target locks for him, just focus/evade or evade/TL, and his more predictable with his 4k. Ryad as the finisher can still get all 3 actions and has 4 different k-turn speeds to choose from.

As for guri, I fly her quite a bit myself, and win far more than I lose with her (since wave 8, in 2 different lists in which the highest pilot skills are 5-6).

With PS 8, Engine Upgrade, and an initiative bid, I'd argue that Vessery is more unpredictable and the better closer. With EU on PtL Ryad you're tied to greens in order to clear stress (which are all either straights or K-Turns), and if you go TIE MK II then you don't have engine upgrade and the benefits that brings.

What is your triple Defender list and what have you faced with it?

Also, I guess I should have been more clear. I think Ryad is great, but she's just not as good as Vessery post-Veterans. I wouldn't run her over Vessery if I only had one Defender in a squad. Juno is super neat but unless I want to fly more than one TIE Advanced, I'm picking Vader. Same with Ryad and Vessery.

With VI, Vessery would be the same PS as the Inquisitor. Most turns the Inquisitor has a TL up, and it's easy for the Palp shuttle to acquire one, and there is often no temptation to spend it since you often don't have an opportunity to attack with the shuttle. The TL situation is a non-issue.

With PS 8, Engine Upgrade, and an initiative bid, I'd argue that Vessery is more unpredictable and the better closer. With EU on PtL Ryad you're tied to greens in order to clear stress (which are all either straights or K-Turns), and if you go TIE MK II then you don't have engine upgrade and the benefits that brings.

What is your triple Defender list and what have you faced with it?

Also, I guess I should have been more clear. I think Ryad is great, but she's just not as good as Vessery post-Veterans. I wouldn't run her over Vessery if I only had one Defender in a squad. Juno is super neat but unless I want to fly more than one TIE Advanced, I'm picking Vader. Same with Ryad and Vessery.

For Inquis, I wasn't worried about shooting order for the TL. Just pointed out that if inquis gets blocked, vessery loses his TL as well.

I run ryad with mk2 engine, I've not felt the need for engine upgrade. At PS5 the engine is way less useful since you can't react very well to what other people are doing. Leaves her plenty of green options to clear stress without being too predictable, and pretty much guarantees focus/evade/tl every round without relying on anyone else.

As far as closers, vessery with engine and VI might be better against anything PS 6-8 (assuming you hvae initiative against the PS8), but will have less modified dice. He 'll have his evade (assuming he moves fast), but has to pick between boost, BR, focus and TL. Ryad can BR and still have focus or TL, or just focus/TL.

Unfortunately palp aces is the main archetype I haven't faced yet with the triple defenders. I should be able to down the shuttle fast (1-2 rounds depending on range and dice). Would get harder after that. I've faced multiple torpedo lists and smashed them all (gotta love taking 1 shield from a 5 hit/crit roll). A 2 TIE/D and epsilon squadron pilot list. Chewie/rebel, some others that I don't recall.

Vessery is only good if your partner is able to get a TL. If the opponent is able to split your fire, then his ability goes to waste. That's why with only 2 partners, I am not overly convinced. Vessery's true strength is the force multiplier he has on focused fire. Sure, the Shuttle could get a TL, but, will it be getting a TL on it's target? I didn't mind so much for tossing a TL and forgetting it with my 17 pt Omega, since TL isn't that great with 2 dice. I care a bit more if I'm throwing away a TL with a 3 Atk die attack.

IMO, I do think the problem with Countess Ryad is that her ability is not worth so much at her PS (in that way she's very similar to Guri).

Half of it (the ability to do 2,3, and 5 K-turn will always be useful, but the other half (choosing between straight and K-turn on the fly) is worth little if you don't move after the enemy.

Currently she's likely good against Swarms and Scouts and bad against Palp Aces. In the future it depends which way the meta will swing post wave 9 (toward generics or toward aces)

I'd like to see a cheap EPT for Imperials that somewhat mimics Vessery's ability. A small reward for some setup. Pays off if you can manage it.

rules text:

When attacking, If another friendly ship has a target lock on your target, you may reroll 1 die result.

When defending, If another friendly ship has a target lock on the enemy attacking you, you may reroll 1 die result.

1-2 points

I'd add it on to ships in a list where nobody wants to spend target locks. The cheaper Advanceds with EPTs like Alozen.

Or on other ships in a list with Omega Leader. It would add value to some rarely seen Imps, and get more support from ships equipped with Weapons Engineer, ST-321, and FCS.

It would also add value to upgrades that counter it, like Black One or Expert Handling.

I don't know, it does give the empire a potent U-Boat list with higher PS (and the ability to stack more mods) than Scouts and evade-denial against aces. It also has space for a blocker with extra utility, although that one is debateable and could possibly be better as more stuff for the bombers and Wampa:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (27) x 3
TIE Bomber (19), Deadeye (1), Extra Munitions (2), Homing Missiles (5), Guidance Chips (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (19)
TIE Bomber (16), TIE Shuttle (0), Fleet Officer (3)

Regarding Defenders, I have to disagree. A triple x7 Defender list, whether it be two blocker Deltas with Vessery, or two glaives with Juke and Ryad, or even Maarek and Brath and Deltas are lists that on vassal have for me consistently shredded the three top lists in the meta: Crackswarms, Palp aces and U-boats.

It's difficult to understate how difficult it is to strip 6 hits of an evasion 3 ship that has focus evade every turn.

Yes, Defenders can be difficult to fly, and you have to plan out your maneuvers two or three turns in advance to give yourself good sightlines to k-turn, however it's not a question of 'being a better pilot will close the disadvantage gap from the matchup', it's more that once you get used to how they fly, and how to fully leverage the x7 title the list is absolutely not flying at a disadvantage against really any list, (unlike, say, three interceptors might be against certain matchups). Moreover, there will be matchups which end up very lopsided in your favour.

Most games for me with two Deltas with an ace, like Vessery, Brath, Whisper, Fel or Vader consistently end up with the ace dead at time, and the two deltas having either polished off the rest, or still flying fine.

A well piloted full health Delta takes well over half an hour typically for a kitted out Soontir Fel to destroy. and most of the time the Fel pilot will make a mistake before that. If you can whittle down your opponent's list to their one regen ace, or one ace, or one uboat, or whatever against your two deltas, 56 points of deltas will tend to trash 58 points of anything else.

The /D title is a different story. In the current meta it's too squishy, games with this title you have to fly completely differently than the x7. I have had significant difficulty winning with triple /D lists against two of the current types of lists in the meta, Crackswarms and Uboats. They still tend to demolish ace lists when piloted with skill.

Blended lists of D and x7 work very well too. Vessery on /D and two x7s is fantastic. Vessery is the prime target, you know it, the opponent knows it, so you dance around with him a full two range bands away from the x7s and your opponent has to choose between getting hits in on vessery who is rolling 4 dice in defence, or on the x7s which absorb punishment like sponges.

for Defenders, at the very least, Imperial Veterans changes everything.

...Countess Ryad has a useless ability..?

Are you trolling me dude?

PGS is firmly of the opinion any positioning-based effect on mid PS is dead if I recall previous discussions about Guri correctly.

This is why PGS is always up for more PWT's in the game, at at least 3 red dice if I recall.

TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

This is just super-idiotic nonsense based on a false sense of superiority of a competitive only player.

Get it through your thick skull that a lot of people do not see the 100-point dogfight as the only way to play. Realise that FFG designs for those players as well.

Not everything is designed for the tournament table, nor should it be.

Arrogant whining baby.

a couple of defenders doubling up on focus because of a TIE Shuttle with Fleet Officer is pretty fethin hard to get through, especially if theyre x7's with an evade on top.

Palp isnt the ultimate force that wins if hes around, autoloses if he isnt. Not even close. I win more by using him as BAIT than i do by trying to keep him alive to abuse the die mod. The shuttle w/o palp isnt much of a priority so people rarely gun for it unless it just happens to be in range1: with palp, they will b-line for him so i can pull some 0speed baffle shenanigans to potentially bump and let my aces clean up on the tokenless target. If i could put an EPT i would put intimidation purely because of this.

TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

This is just super-idiotic nonsense based on a false sense of superiority of a competitive only player.

Get it through your thick skull that a lot of people do not see the 100-point dogfight as the only way to play. Realise that FFG designs for those players as well.

Not everything is designed for the tournament table, nor should it be.

Arrogant whining baby.

Maybe you wouldn't have to play your special snowflake hugbox formats if FFG did a better job at balancing the game and didn't release broken cards like Palpatine.

I myself play a special snowflake hugbox format and TIE Shuttles will be decent in that. It's just a shame that Palpatine is so good and Push the Limit eliminates the need for having ships that hand off actions by creating nuanceless super ships with no need for synergy between ships.

Your saying this like its a bad thing. If rebels got another regening ace we'd just say "more rebel regen" or another turret "more turret-wing". Scum just keeps putting all thier eggs in large baskets (brobots and now Uboats) until they get some mid point small ships worth a ****.

2-3 aces is going to be the empire's thing probably as long as this game exists. That and swarm. And I'm ok with that. Unless triple/ palp aces wins the next two worlds I wouldn't start to worry yet.

TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

This is just super-idiotic nonsense based on a false sense of superiority of a competitive only player.

Get it through your thick skull that a lot of people do not see the 100-point dogfight as the only way to play. Realise that FFG designs for those players as well.

Not everything is designed for the tournament table, nor should it be.

Arrogant whining baby.

The fact remains that it's not worth it in a competitive 100 point game. The only format where it actually matters.

Maybe you wouldn't have to play your special snowflake hugbox formats if FFG did a better job at balancing the game and didn't release broken cards like Palpatine.

I myself play a special snowflake hugbox format and TIE Shuttles will be decent in that. It's just a shame that Palpatine is so good and Push the Limit eliminates the need for having ships that hand off actions by creating nuanceless super ships with no need for synergy between ships.

I don't have to play anything and your pathetic attempts to denigrate casual play are a joke. Much like your singular posting style of how everything is an autoloss or autowin.

I play casual because there's a lot of fun to be had there without having to limit oneself to hypercompetitive lists.

I play competitive because I sometimes do want that.

I do not feel the need to have to use every card and model ever released in a competitive format, nor do I think FFG has to release expansions that have to be competitive.

TIE Shuttles can be put to good use in team-play, in Epic, in campaigns, in whatever you want. So what if you can't put it in the 100 point dogfight, what does that matter?

I have asked you this before, you complain so much, do you even enjoy the game anymore?

Where is the new photo that confirms his name is Back draft?

Also, clearly not enough people have proxied the Tie shuttle with fleet officer, systems officer, and mk. II. I have a couple of times now; the things a goddamn beast. My opponents always ignored it and it cost them the game very rapidly. The thing hands out three actions a turn, to Imperial ships that desperately want focus tokens. It lets you do hilarious things like give TLs to the likes of Mauler Mithel. So unlike Palpatine, if you run into a shuttle you are almost always going to have to kill it first.

In comparison to Palpatine, the thing is seven points less. So of course it is going to be less good. Unlike with Palpatine though, you can easily fit three or more quality ships in your list, which Imperials have no real lack of. Also systems officer is amazing with ATC Advanced, giving them a TL and two tokens on the joust.

If I wasn't one of those people who got into the game because they put the defender in it (and the e-wing, that's another story though) and so am elated it will finally be worth its points, the Tie Shuttle title would be my most anticipated card revealed so far this year.

Where is the new photo that confirms his name is Back draft?

In the "close ups of wave 9 from Yavin" thread you can read the PS 7 base.

TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

This is just super-idiotic nonsense based on a false sense of superiority of a competitive only player.

Get it through your thick skull that a lot of people do not see the 100-point dogfight as the only way to play. Realise that FFG designs for those players as well.

Not everything is designed for the tournament table, nor should it be.

Arrogant whining baby.

The fact remains that it's not worth it in a competitive 100 point game. The only format where it actually matters.

Maybe you wouldn't have to play your special snowflake hugbox formats if FFG did a better job at balancing the game and didn't release broken cards like Palpatine.

I myself play a special snowflake hugbox format and TIE Shuttles will be decent in that. It's just a shame that Palpatine is so good and Push the Limit eliminates the need for having ships that hand off actions by creating nuanceless super ships with no need for synergy between ships.

You realise the competitive scene is maybe 10% of all players right? The vast majority of any miniature game is played casually at home or at clubs.

Where is the new photo that confirms his name is Back draft?

In the "close ups of wave 9 from Yavin" thread you can read the PS 7 base.

Its also on a ship base visible in the announcement artivle

TIE Shuttles? Why would you fly a support craft based around systems officer and fleet officer when you could use Palpatine? Super trash.

This is just super-idiotic nonsense based on a false sense of superiority of a competitive only player.

Get it through your thick skull that a lot of people do not see the 100-point dogfight as the only way to play. Realise that FFG designs for those players as well.

Not everything is designed for the tournament table, nor should it be.

Arrogant whining baby.

The fact remains that it's not worth it in a competitive 100 point game. The only format where it actually matters.

Maybe you wouldn't have to play your special snowflake hugbox formats if FFG did a better job at balancing the game and didn't release broken cards like Palpatine.

I myself play a special snowflake hugbox format and TIE Shuttles will be decent in that. It's just a shame that Palpatine is so good and Push the Limit eliminates the need for having ships that hand off actions by creating nuanceless super ships with no need for synergy between ships.

A TIE shuttle is much cheaper than a Lambda. It won't substitute the Lambda in PalpAces because it can't take Palpatine but if you're not building a PalpAce squad it can provide a variety of very cheap support options. It's the cheapest Imperial platform that can take Intelligence Agent for example, something ships that rely on not being blocked really don't want to see.

Maybe you wouldn't have to play your special snowflake hugbox formats if FFG did a better job at balancing the game and didn't release broken cards like Palpatine.

We don't have to. We just want to.

I for one believe Sandwing is an intrinsic part of any metagame that can only be limited, not killed.