For whatever reason I can't post my comment after yours... Anyway JJ somewhat got it right, I hope for a better future of ST after seeing his last ST movie...

trek isn't and hasn't ever been about fights and explosions it's about exploration diplomacy and hope for a better future.

The abominations he made were not star trek they made Gene Roddenberry spin in his grave, trek isn't and hasn't ever been about fights and explosions it's about exploration diplomacy and hope for a better future.

I never met Mr. Roddenberry. What he does or does not do in his grave is no business of mine, nor does it impact my enjoyment of a movie.

The best Trek movies have been about fights and explosions. See Wrath of Khan and First Contact.

The ones that are true to Star Trek, Nemesis, Generations, the Final Frontier, Save the Whales or whatever it was called make for terrible movies.

I stand by my statement.

The abominations he made were not star trek they made Gene Roddenberry spin in his grave, trek isn't and hasn't ever been about fights and explosions it's about exploration diplomacy and hope for a better future.

I never met Mr. Roddenberry. What he does or does not do in his grave is no business of mine, nor does it impact my enjoyment of a movie.

The best Trek movies have been about fights and explosions. See Wrath of Khan and First Contact.

The ones that are true to Star Trek, Nemesis, Generations, the Final Frontier, Save the Whales or whatever it was called make for terrible movies.

I stand by my statement.

The best Star Trek movies have HAD fights and explosions, but those were parts of a better story.

The best Star Trek movies have HAD fights and explosions, but those were parts of a better story.

Yes, and I listed both of them. Try to keep up.

I was underwhelmed. It wasnt terrible but it left no impact on me. Some of the things they did made me grit my teeth due to a basic knowledge of physics (i know reality and SW dont generally mix. But some things are just daft) But i enjoyed it in parts and it was better than the prequels. Im looking forward to Rogue One more though

Or you were until the latest reports, it's apparently not just the execs not liking it the test audiences apparently really disliked the movie.

Disney needs to pick much better directors.

Honestly, I'd expect that Disney wanted a more mature Star Wars in Rogue One and when they put it in front of less mature audiences - the same audiences they're selling Marvel movies and the sequel trilogy to - they suddenly changed their minds.

I expect that Disney doesn't want a Boondock Saints or Rocky Horror Picture Show - a movie that is initially poorly received and doesn't do well at the box office and gradually builds a cult following - likely the movie they were getting, considering the director and the plot synopsis. No, they want The Avengers 2: Age of Ultron , a movie that rakes in a bunch of dough and that gets good initial reviews, even if it's ultimately unremarkable and completely forgotten by December 2017.

I'm not so worried that the original Rogue One was going to be horrible - I'm worried that the reworked Rogue One will be. (And if it is, I pray God that we get a director's cut and LFL ultimately decides that the director's cut is canon and the theatrical release isn't.)

I was underwhelmed. It wasnt terrible but it left no impact on me. Some of the things they did made me grit my teeth due to a basic knowledge of physics (i know reality and SW dont generally mix. But some things are just daft) But i enjoyed it in parts and it was better than the prequels. Im looking forward to Rogue One more though

Or you were until the latest reports, it's apparently not just the execs not liking it the test audiences apparently really disliked the movie.

Disney needs to pick much better directors.

For Sci-Fi, not sure there's much better than Abrams . He's the only guy that made a watchable Star Wars or Star Trek movie in the last two decades.

I'm just glad Disney gives a crap, to be honest. I think the largest issues with the Prequels was nobody willing to stand up to Lucas. Everybody needs some constructive criticism every now and then.

No. Nononononono.

JJ Abrams is a mediocre director whose movies have been mediocre. (Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that he's terrible. His movies are not, as a rule, horrible - they're just mediocre: A for effort, but a C for results.)

In fifty years, nobody will remember a single movie JJ Abrams directed except Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens and Star Trek/Star Trek: Into Darkness . And it won't be because of JJ Abrams's directoral chops, it will be because of the franchises that they're part of.

He was a good choice for the relaunch of Star Wars precisely because he is mediocre. Because while some directors vacillate between utterly horrible tripe and sublime excellence, JJ manages to always remain mediocre. He's not enough of an auteur to ruin anything, but he's also not enough of an auteur to elevate a movie to true excellence. What's more is that JJ brings his (f___ing stupid) "mystery box" with him - with which he knows how to build hype for any project he's working on.

And the result was a mediocre movie - but a good way to start the new trilogy. And I've noticed that the directors for the remaining Star Wars films thus far announced are more of the auteur type, signalling that Disney is willing to take some greater risks with Star Wars - like with Marvel - once they've got the franchise up and running, which they now do.

The abominations he made were not star trek they made Gene Roddenberry spin in his grave, trek isn't and hasn't ever been about fights and explosions it's about exploration diplomacy and hope for a better future.

Considering that DS9 also would've made Roddenberry spin in his grave, you will understand if I'm not exactly sad that they don't follow his "vision".

The abominations he made were not star trek they made Gene Roddenberry spin in his grave, trek isn't and hasn't ever been about fights and explosions it's about exploration diplomacy and hope for a better future.

Considering that DS9 also would've made Roddenberry spin in his grave, you will understand if I'm not exactly sad that they don't follow his "vision".

Honestly, Roddenberry's vision just about sunk The Next Generation because he wanted the Federation to have become a complete utopia and he didn't want there to be any interpersonal conflict between the crew. Wm. Shatner made a pretty good documentary about it titled Chaos on the Bridge .

Bottom-line is that Gene got to do what George would do almost a decade and a half later: Almost totally destroy his own creation.

For background, I was born after the original trilogy was produced, and grew up watching Star Wars, playing the X-Wing series of flight simulators, and reading any of the books our library had (I enjoyed Zahn's Thrawn trilogy and the X-wing series, and was rather neutral towards most of the others). I had mixed feelings about Special Edition, enjoying the updated special effects but not really liking a lot of the added scenes (Jabba in ANH comes to mind...). I didn't like the prequels, but still enjoyed seeing them in theaters with my friends because there was a LOT for us to make fun of afterwards (I also grew up watching MST3K). I enjoyed the Holiday Special for the same reason.

All that to say, I really liked TFA, and not just for the chance to riff it (though there's plenty of that, too). I was genuinely interested in the characters and their stories, even Anakin McWhinypants 2.0. The humor was much better done than in the prequels, and it was a joy to hear Han's snarkiness once again. Did I like it as much as the original trilogy? No, but it was still a solid addition to the series and FAR better than the prequels, in my opinion.

I don't think I have seen any "hate" of the new movie. I see more....."meh" reactions. I get that, but I'm OK with the film. I know the pressure to "return to the roots of what made Star Wars good". They redid episode 4 a tad too much, but I'm OK with that. They just needed to make a mediocre movie to be a success. They did that.

What I don't like is how I felt thrown into a movie with little explanation or time to think about what the heck was going on. It feels....rushed. Not that the making of it is, but the pacing. It also feels like it will be fine...once all the other books, comics, and other movies come out to fill in the plot with what the heck is going on before Ep 7. From what I hear, the new novel "Bloodlines" really helps you understand what the heck is going on in the universe. I'm looking to listen to that audio book with my soon as soon as we are done with "Lost Stars" (same author and really good).

A lot of people (not talking about the OP. Just in general) like to throw out the 'hater' label anytime someone has an opinion that differs from their own. Facebook SW pages are really bad about it and also love the 'b*tthurt' label *L* (B*tt seems to be a banned word )

"Because the third Deathstar was totally unnecessary!"

Lucas making "worlds" and giving us the awesome questions like:

"I used to bulls eye Womp Rats in mt T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 metres."

"That bounty hunter we ran into at Ord Mandell .."

"No disintegrations!"

"We a go a looong way Lando and me"

These quotes -as samples from the eloquent thread retorts above- give reasons why the original trilogy was fantastic; and the prequels and FA? Not so much.

My beefs:

Kylo started off as a great flawed/dark character until his wine-fest in the interrogation. And although stormtroopers were nicely revamped into what they should have always been, in the last battle (other than the light-saber-billy-club wielding guy, who was cool) they went glass-cannon/stupid again. But my biggest beef was the lightsaber duel at the movie's close when the all-be-it injured but mostly trained Kylo couldn't really fight worth a darn against Rey who'd never even held one in a fighting posture before, what?!?!??!????

Anywho, I'll hope the next one gets the franchise back on track.

I can't believe I actually agree with BKL....

but yeah...I don't hate TFA, but I don't particularly like it either.

"Because the third Deathstar was totally unnecessary!"

Lucas making "worlds" and giving us the awesome questions like:

"I used to bulls eye Womp Rats in mt T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 metres."

"That bounty hunter we ran into at Ord Mandell .."

"No disintegrations!"

"We a go a looong way Lando and me"

These quotes -as samples from the eloquent thread retorts above- give reasons why the original trilogy was fantastic; and the prequels and FA? Not so much.

My beefs:

Kylo started off as a great flawed/dark character until his wine-fest in the interrogation. And although stormtroopers were nicely revamped into what they should have always been, in the last battle (other than the light-saber-billy-club wielding guy, who was cool) they went glass-cannon/stupid again. But my biggest beef was the lightsaber duel at the movie's close when the all-be-it injured but mostly trained Kylo couldn't really fight worth a darn against Rey who'd never even held one in a fighting posture before, what?!?!??!????

Anywho, I'll hope the next one gets the franchise back on track.

I was always wondering why lightsaber-billy-club-wielding guy (LBCWG) was carrying that thing around if he didn't know Finn would be there armed with a lightsaber. Did he carry it into every battle, just hoping that he'd meet a jedi, or something?

Also, can anyone explain how the T-70's cannons were able to cause explosions that fling stormtroopers through the air...EXCEPT for when shooting at troopers near the prisoners, in which case the blast just kills the trooper and does no collateral damage whatsoever? Why doesn't the game reflect the T-70's ability to control laser power so precisely?

"Because the third Deathstar was totally unnecessary!"

Lucas making "worlds" and giving us the awesome questions like:

"I used to bulls eye Womp Rats in mt T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 metres."

"That bounty hunter we ran into at Ord Mandell .."

"No disintegrations!"

"We a go a looong way Lando and me"

These quotes -as samples from the eloquent thread retorts above- give reasons why the original trilogy was fantastic; and the prequels and FA? Not so much.

My beefs:

Kylo started off as a great flawed/dark character until his wine-fest in the interrogation. And although stormtroopers were nicely revamped into what they should have always been, in the last battle (other than the light-saber-billy-club wielding guy, who was cool) they went glass-cannon/stupid again. But my biggest beef was the lightsaber duel at the movie's close when the all-be-it injured but mostly trained Kylo couldn't really fight worth a darn against Rey who'd never even held one in a fighting posture before, what?!?!??!????

Anywho, I'll hope the next one gets the franchise back on track.

I was always wondering why lightsaber-billy-club-wielding guy (LBCWG) was carrying that thing around if he didn't know Finn would be there armed with a lightsaber. Did he carry it into every battle, just hoping that he'd meet a jedi, or something?

Also, can anyone explain how the T-70's cannons were able to cause explosions that fling stormtroopers through the air...EXCEPT for when shooting at troopers near the prisoners, in which case the blast just kills the trooper and does no collateral damage whatsoever? Why doesn't the game reflect the T-70's ability to control laser power so precisely?

I don't think I have seen any "hate" of the new movie. I see more....."meh" reactions. I get that, but I'm OK with the film. I know the pressure to "return to the roots of what made Star Wars good". They redid episode 4 a tad too much, but I'm OK with that. They just needed to make a mediocre movie to be a success. They did that.

What I don't like is how I felt thrown into a movie with little explanation or time to think about what the heck was going on. It feels....rushed. Not that the making of it is, but the pacing. It also feels like it will be fine...once all the other books, comics, and other movies come out to fill in the plot with what the heck is going on before Ep 7. From what I hear, the new novel "Bloodlines" really helps you understand what the heck is going on in the universe. I'm looking to listen to that audio book with my soon as soon as we are done with "Lost Stars" (same author and really good).

I agree.

The other Star Wars films weren't slow-paced by any stretch of the imagination, but they gave you moments to slow down and breath in the frankly gorgeous worlds Lucas and his art departments created.

There are stills from the original trilogy and the prequels that I genuinely believe could be framed and hung on the wall and even the most self-serious art snob or interior designer wouldn't be able to look down their nose at it (or you for having it framed and hanging in your house).

"Because the third Deathstar was totally unnecessary!"

Lucas making "worlds" and giving us the awesome questions like:

"I used to bulls eye Womp Rats in mt T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 metres."

"That bounty hunter we ran into at Ord Mandell .."

"No disintegrations!"

"We a go a looong way Lando and me"

These quotes -as samples from the eloquent thread retorts above- give reasons why the original trilogy was fantastic; and the prequels and FA? Not so much.

My beefs:

Kylo started off as a great flawed/dark character until his wine-fest in the interrogation. And although stormtroopers were nicely revamped into what they should have always been, in the last battle (other than the light-saber-billy-club wielding guy, who was cool) they went glass-cannon/stupid again. But my biggest beef was the lightsaber duel at the movie's close when the all-be-it injured but mostly trained Kylo couldn't really fight worth a darn against Rey who'd never even held one in a fighting posture before, what?!?!??!????

Anywho, I'll hope the next one gets the franchise back on track.

It is my opinion that the sequel trilogy is going to give us what we thought and hoped we would get out of Revenge of the Sith , but didn't: It's going to show us the transformation of a whiny-ass mope (Anakin/Ben) into a hardened BAMF.

I was always wondering why lightsaber-billy-club-wielding guy (LBCWG) was carrying that thing around if he didn't know Finn would be there armed with a lightsaber. Did he carry it into every battle, just hoping that he'd meet a jedi, or something?

Also, can anyone explain how the T-70's cannons were able to cause explosions that fling stormtroopers through the air...EXCEPT for when shooting at troopers near the prisoners, in which case the blast just kills the trooper and does no collateral damage whatsoever? Why doesn't the game reflect the T-70's ability to control laser power so precisely?

TR-8R or LBCWG is described as being a "riot trooper". He's carrying the techno-retro-future tonfa because it's his back-up to his blaster (locked, perhaps, in stun).

The better question is, "Why did the First Order deploy a single, solitary Riot Trooper to the battle on not-Yavin?" (The other troopers are the regular mix of grunt Stormtroopers, heavy weapons Stormtroopers, and officer and NCO Stormtroopers.)

I was always wondering why lightsaber-billy-club-wielding guy (LBCWG) was carrying that thing around if he didn't know Finn would be there armed with a lightsaber. Did he carry it into every battle, just hoping that he'd meet a jedi, or something?

Also, can anyone explain how the T-70's cannons were able to cause explosions that fling stormtroopers through the air...EXCEPT for when shooting at troopers near the prisoners, in which case the blast just kills the trooper and does no collateral damage whatsoever? Why doesn't the game reflect the T-70's ability to control laser power so precisely?

TR-8R or LBCWG is described as being a "riot trooper". He's carrying the techno-retro-future tonfa because it's his back-up to his blaster (locked, perhaps, in stun).

The better question is, "Why did the First Order deploy a single, solitary Riot Trooper to the battle on not-Yavin?" (The other troopers are the regular mix of grunt Stormtroopers, heavy weapons Stormtroopers, and officer and NCO Stormtroopers.)

(+1 to you sir, but I'm out of likes for today)

Ah the old videogame problem. Make your evil empire have a range of differently equipped faceless troopers but don't pay enough attention to how often and when they appear.

And the whole sniper t-70 thing drives me up the wall. Was that supposed to be yet more of Poe's god like super-mega-ludocrous piloting? Given the rumors he was originally intended to die in the tie crash you almost have to wonder if he came back gandalf/Jesus/etc style with bloody superpowers.

I was always wondering why lightsaber-billy-club-wielding guy (LBCWG) was carrying that thing around if he didn't know Finn would be there armed with a lightsaber. Did he carry it into every battle, just hoping that he'd meet a jedi, or something?

Also, can anyone explain how the T-70's cannons were able to cause explosions that fling stormtroopers through the air...EXCEPT for when shooting at troopers near the prisoners, in which case the blast just kills the trooper and does no collateral damage whatsoever? Why doesn't the game reflect the T-70's ability to control laser power so precisely?

TR-8R or LBCWG is described as being a "riot trooper". He's carrying the techno-retro-future tonfa because it's his back-up to his blaster (locked, perhaps, in stun).

The better question is, "Why did the First Order deploy a single, solitary Riot Trooper to the battle on not-Yavin?" (The other troopers are the regular mix of grunt Stormtroopers, heavy weapons Stormtroopers, and officer and NCO Stormtroopers.)

(+1 to you sir, but I'm out of likes for today)

Ah the old videogame problem. Make your evil empire have a range of differently equipped faceless troopers but don't pay enough attention to how often and when they appear.

And the whole sniper t-70 thing drives me up the wall. Was that supposed to be yet more of Poe's god like super-mega-ludocrous piloting? Given the rumors he was originally intended to die in the tie crash you almost have to wonder if he came back gandalf/Jesus/etc style with bloody superpowers.

Ah, I get it! So he's Poe the Black! Kylo Ren as he should have been! Maybe the next movie will show him single-handedly fighting off the First Order's Ring Squadron in defense of the planet Mins T'rith!

...I'm conflicted as to whether this would be the stupidest thing ever, the greatest crossover of all time, or possibly both.

I don't have much hate for TFA. I actually quite liked it.

But, I'm not without my questions.

I am one of those people who didn't grow up on Star Wars. I'm 35 now, and only really started to REALLY like them 4yrs ago, and only REALLY REALLY liked them when I started playing X-wing. Now I'm gung-ho about it.

I never really watched the OT to much capacity. Don't get me wrong, I've watched them, but I didn't worship them. Then when the Prequels were released I watched those, and didn't mind them (Even Jar Jar who everyone hates I didn't mind so much)

Then I binged watched TCW two summers ago. Those were awesome IMO, and truly cemented my love for SW - And now I'm head over heels for Rebels.

So, that's my history. And despite me being a noob, I still was scratching my head MANY times while I watched TFA. The film started really good, but then as others have mentioned, when they left jakku and Han/Chewie just so happened to be there, and then the gangs.... And Rey apparently has such deep intimate knowledge of ships and on-board equipment? Okay... Weird. I can understand some, or good knowledge, but to know COMPLETELY everything about how a ship operates was just strange.

And then came the whole starkiller base... like really? That's all you guys could come up with? A THIRD deathstar? Ugh. That's when it started to lose me. But I held faith up until they decided to raid/attack that base. And the crappy interaction between Han/Chewie/Finn and Phasma...... Hey, lets just do exactly what these three clowns want me to do. Oh, and the whole garbage compactor.... that was amusing, but not needed.... OH... and where were ALL THE OTHER TROOPERS ON THIS BASE? Wtf.... It's like they were raiding a small little shield post on Endor, only THAT HAD MORE TROOPS DEFENDING IT...

Sorry, I don't like stupid interactions like that. Things need to make sense.

I only saw TFA in theatres once... And I bought it on Bluray when it came out, and since have watched it 3-4 more times... But I watch it in hopes I find an obscure answer to one of the many glaring holes in this movie.

Going back and rereading what I wrote, it does sound like I hated it, but I didn't. I just worked up when I have a burning question... haha

My thoughts:

http://starwarsintodarkness.blogspot.com/2016/06/journey-to-force-awakens.html

If you don't want to read them, here's the short version:

Enjoyed it more than the prequels, less than originals and thought the Starkiller weapon was dumb.

I still want to know how they watched the destruction of the republic from a planets surface a third of the way across the galaxy in realtime

I still want to know how they watched the destruction of the republic from a planets surface a third of the way across the galaxy in realtime

Don't get me started.

How can the power of a star be pulled into a planet without destroying the atmosphere and immolating everyone and everything there?

How can the power of the star be shot through hyperspace?

How did the beam of star fire split into five beams that struck five different planets?

How was it possible for people to see the beam of star fire and the destruction of the planets when they were nowhere near them?

Where did it get the sun juice for the first shot from if it had to drain the system star for a second shot?

Binary System perhaps. OK, so what next? Are you going to tell me that the whole planet moves?

OK that last one could be feasible in a sci-fi setting as liberal with science as Star Wars but it's still really annoying.

Yeah I think love it or hate it we can all agree death star three made no **** sense.

I still want to know how they watched the destruction of the republic from a planets surface a third of the way across the galaxy in realtime

Don't get me started.

How can the power of a star be pulled into a planet without destroying the atmosphere and immolating everyone and everything there?

How can the power of the star be shot through hyperspace?

How did the beam of star fire split into five beams that struck five different planets?

How was it possible for people to see the beam of star fire and the destruction of the planets when they were nowhere near them?

Where did it get the sun juice for the first shot from if it had to drain the system star for a second shot?

Binary System perhaps. OK, so what next? Are you going to tell me that the whole planet moves?

OK that last one could be feasible in a sci-fi setting as liberal with science as Star Wars but it's still really annoying.

Apparently, the seeing multiple planets being destroyed in real time from light years away is because the weapon caused some kind of subspace disruption so it's visible from . . . screw it! Someone needs to give JJ NDTs number!

How about just some simple, 8th grade physics? A star (in a system like ours) contains most of the mass in the system, like, 99.9%. If you are going to pull anything out of the sun, you have to overcome all the gravity that is holding it together and compressing it to fuse hydrogen into heavier elements. So if you have some device on the Starkiller that's going to do that, all it'd do is pull itself right into the sun.

The best Star Trek movies have HAD fights and explosions, but those were parts of a better story.

Yes, and I listed both of them. Try to keep up.

Sorry for not making it clear.

You said that they were ABOUT fights and explosions. My point is that they included them, but they were only part of a deeper, more satisfying story. Wrath of Khan was as much a contest of wills between Kirk and Khan, the friendship between Kirk and Spock, passing the torch to a new generation, etc.

First Contact centers on Picard's internal struggle with what was done to him in The Best of Both Worlds. Remember the whole scene about Moby **** and how he is Ahab? Then there's Zephram Cochran and how he doesn't become the legend everyone from the future thinks he is until after his warp flight.

The point is that, while those movies have the explosions and the fights that are really cool they are just a single element of great movies that, if they were removed, would still be great movies.

Compare that to the other end of the spectrum: Michael Bay. Removed the fights, the explosions and all the rest and would you have anything worth watching? Heck no!

And that is where JJ drops the ball. He knows how to create something flashy that will get your attention, he has the kernel of a good story, but then he just goes and gives us some over-the-top action scenes.

Are we all caught up?

I still want to know how they watched the destruction of the republic from a planets surface a third of the way across the galaxy in realtime

Don't get me started.

How can the power of a star be pulled into a planet without destroying the atmosphere and immolating everyone and everything there?

How can the power of the star be shot through hyperspace?

How did the beam of star fire split into five beams that struck five different planets?

How was it possible for people to see the beam of star fire and the destruction of the planets when they were nowhere near them?

Where did it get the sun juice for the first shot from if it had to drain the system star for a second shot?

Binary System perhaps. OK, so what next? Are you going to tell me that the whole planet moves?

OK that last one could be feasible in a sci-fi setting as liberal with science as Star Wars but it's still really annoying.

My assumption is that they could move the planet/base. Otherwise its usefulness is rather limited - a lot of resources to burn on a one (or two)-shot weapon. Probably easier - and less expensive - to devise a Suncrusher-type weapon and make the sun go nova, if you want a one-shot weapon.