So, I think most can agree that there should be no "forced" fleet additions, a modest point increase (my vote is for 20 or 35) would be advantageous w/o becoming cumbersome, and no one here intended to crush OPs feelings but merely opined forcefully. I do enjoy this community better than "others" and I have yet to see an intentional insult but then I don't read every single posting. Lots of great input and if there is a point increase, I strongly believe it needs to be the last!

Oh I was fine with people crushing my opinion. I was mainly trying to feel out if others felt the same way I do. Turns out they don't, and I accept that. *quietly plans revenge*

In the end, it's a matter of perspective I guess. I personally feel like this game should have a heavy lean towards squadrons to invoke the feel. I honestly expected this thread to be mostly ignored with quiet Yay or Nays.

Throughout the entirety of Armada's history, few subjects have produced such strong opinions as squadrons have, as you have discovered.

There are the "squadrons are a crucial component of the Star Wars mythos" players, of which you are one. You want many squadrons on the table. The idea of a Star Destroyer showing up with zero TIE Fighters seems ridiculous. These players tend to promote rules changes/house rules that require more squadrons or further incentivize them.

There are the "I didn't play a capital ship game to have to care about fighter craft" players, of which you have now met several. They don't want to be forced to use squadrons. They figure that's what X-Wing is for and points spent on squadrons are points not going towards more capital ships. These players tend to promote rules changes/house rules that forbid squadrons altogether or reduce the maximum number you can take.

There are the "don't you dare tell me what do do" players, who hate the idea of anyone requiring them to take squadrons if they don't want to or capping their squadrons below the current limit if they do want to. These players tend to snipe at both sides in the inevitable fight between the two earlier types of players.

This battle has waged eternal since the wave one days and it may never end

The problem is, you cannot make squadrons central to Armada, without changing it from a capital ship game, and they have a squadron centric game already.

As Snipafist said, it is quite easy to house rule with your friends, a larger allocation of points for squadrons, the real problem you will have is having ships capable of activating them, more points on squadrons means less ships, and less ships means your squadrons without rogue, either moving, or shooting, unless they are activated by a ship.

At the moment there is a real balance struck between designing a carrier fleet, or a non carrier fleet, and I cannot see how increasing the allowance for squadrons would actually help the game (in the current 400pt limit).

I have played up to 600pt games, and 600pts works remarkably well, games for me and my friends last roughly the same as 400pt games, more stuff to do sure, but there is a lot more damage floating around as well so it balances out. I do hope we see an increase with wave 4.

At what point total do the present rules become unplayable.... I've only ever played 300-400 point games. Has anyone pushed the limit on points and did it work ?

Difficult to say, as a lot of playability depends on your fleet building attitude and composition.

Some friends I play with go very upgrade heavy as they like to have the best of the best (of the best!) on one ship before they move on to a next one. They sometimes manage to bring 3-4 activations to 600 points games, fully ticked out ISD/VSD combos with light fighter support. If you play with people who have this attitude, 100 points extra do not necessarily mean that there will be a single extra ship on the table!

And composition - this becomes increasingly a case the less maneouverable the average ship on the table is, and the less each player cares about keeping ships moving around. If the spending behaviour in your group is contrary to my first example, you might see a lot of additional ships as people might go very light on upgrades, or stuff in bare ships. With the ramming rules as they are, there is an increasing chance for bigger armadas of slow, pondering medium/large ships to end up in a shmash-up with no legitimate maneouver left to execute.

I've played 800 and it was AWESOME. Only drawback is that it took 4 hours. I suspect after Waves 3 and 4 come out I'll be looking to set up a 1000 point game.

1000 points will truly feel like an Armada. And yeah I'll probably even throw in a squadron or two into the mix!

From an imperial side, looking at just Squadrons and not involving myself in wildly crazy point discussions…I find that 4 squadrons grouped into packages is the sweet spot for delivery. 4 Squads can be activated by a Gozanti/Hange-rbay/Wulf, or a Victory with a Hanger-bay, or an ISD just natively.

For what those 4 squads are, if I’m running a dedicated squadron pusher like a Gozanti, I believe I’ll want 2 or 3 Four packs of squadrons. If I’m running an ISDN, a single pack to get into the game at the right moment. If I’m running Raider/Gladiators, I prefer to look into the Rouge options, or specific characters with options that that will work for me.

I have a dream that I launch Darth Vader and Soontir paired together into a pack of squadrons and watch people have to shoot Vader just to have Soontir damage them.

I have a dream that I launch Darth Vader and Soontir paired together into a pack of squadrons and watch people have to shoot Vader just to have Soontir damage them.

And have Dengar there so Vader is also throwing Counter dice

I have a dream that I launch Darth Vader and Soontir paired together into a pack of squadrons and watch people have to shoot Vader just to have Soontir damage them.

And have Dengar there so Vader is also throwing Counter dice

And don't forget that Vader's attack dice, even his Counter dice, do damage on crits.

...and then realize you spent about 7 TIE Fighters' worth of points just to do this silly combo.

That last step is really important when putting together Imperial janktastic ace combos.

Not only is it expensive, its only one thing, and its easily avoided through either superior positioning (can't be everywhere at once), or Intel...

It was a Terror in previous times. Not so much now. Now the Squadron game is much deeper.

I have a dream that I launch Darth Vader and Soontir paired together into a pack of squadrons and watch people have to shoot Vader just to have Soontir damage them.

And have Dengar there so Vader is also throwing Counter dice

And don't forget that Vader's attack dice, even his Counter dice, do damage on crits.

...and then realize you spent about 7 TIE Fighters' worth of points just to do this silly combo.

That last step is really important when putting together Imperial janktastic ace combos.

Ohh cost is always a consideration. But for me the biggest consideration is the launcher. The Soontir and Vader is a lot, but if I’m only prepared to dedicate a 2 squadron luancher, they are pretty sweet. When you start talking 4-5 launchers, then I think you make more sense to look at the larger, cheaper Tie swarms.