I noticed this combo today:

When your opponent declares an attack on a zone with a Shrine to Nurgle, in the action window that follows you play Nurgle's Pestilence. This counts as damage during combat, so your opponent's units are all corrupted. (This IS damage during combat, since page 12 of the rules say "Attacking an opponent requires engaging in combat") As your opponent's units are corrupted, he can not declare any as attacking. Your turn

Here is my question: when resolving card effects, do we do them in order from top to bottom as they appear on the card? I ask because of the Nurgle's Pestilence text "Corrupted units take an additional damage." This effect is separated from the effect coming right before it by a period. So does the check for extra damage occur simultaneously or after the first damage is dealt? I ask because if it is after (that is, we do things top to bottom and left to right) then Nurgle's Pestilence will deal 2 damage (1 damage, corrupt, then the extra)

You cannot deal 2 damage to Units corrupted by Nurgle's Pestilence, because you must fully resolve an effect before another effect can take place.

In this case, assuming that players passes the opportunity to take actions, you deal damage to Units AND (not THEN) deal another damage to already corrupted units...THEN shrine to nurgle triggers, corrupting damaged Unit.

The Nurgle's Pestilence's text just says: "1 damage normally or 2 damage if corrupted".

Hope it helps.

PeekItUp said:

I highly doubt this combo works. The wording of Shrine to Nurgle is very unclear : when is 'during combat' ? To me, Shrine to Nurgle effect refeers to units getting damaged during the last step of an attack, not to units damaged during the whole attack phase.

If this combo works, I'ld play Chaos all the time : Shrine + Pestilence, declare an attack (or wait for your opponent to declare one), play Pestilence -> all opposing units are corrupted no matter the zones they're in -> he can't attack, and next turn, you can burn a defenseless zone. BTW, the attacked zone doesn't matter : Shrine doesn't specify it only affects units attacking your Kingdom zone.

Am I the only one to consider this "combo" to be wrong ?

Martin_fr said:

Not sure there is an official word on this yet, but based on the rules, combat starts when you do Step 1 of the Battlefield Phase (Declare Target). StN doesn't say "combat damage" (which is what Units in combat deal), it says "during combat" (any of the 5 Step that make up combat).

Note to the Shrine + Pestilence combo, your units will also be corrupted (or even dead, as Chaos has several 1HP Units), so won't be doing a lot of attacking either.

The official word is it works just the way you think, any damage, no matter how it was dealt, during thefive steps of combat trigger the Shrine, which obviously includes Nurgle's Pestilence.

Dam said:

I'm really one step behind in this game, because, up to now, I considered "opponent's unit" to be the unit controlled by the other player. Stupid me

More seriously, my Nurgle theme deck will be unstoppable with this combo !

Martin_fr said:

Oh yeah, forgot about Shrine's text only on opponents . Still, many of the Chaos Units won't survive.

The official word is it works just the way you think, any damage, no matter how it was dealt, during thefive steps of combat trigger the Shrine, which obviously includes Nurgle's Pestilence.

Can you post the source for that? Or atleast unchanged quote from any Dev?

For just 2 resources it seems quite imbalanced card if it works like you say...

Not to mention other issues - like:

"During combat" means that StN works on ANY unit in any zone while combat is declared ? Card doesnt say anything about that and if so - can I declare an attack, choose zone and then cast Pestilence, after which I declare zero attackers?

For me its just 1 resource more than typical "+1 power" for StN with some nice but not overpowered effect. And our group considers as "combat damage" only the damage assigned by fighting creatures, not their abilities or other effects/cards.

all of your concerns have been voiced before (including by me), but Nate ruled that all damage occuring to any units during the 5 steps of combat triggers the shrine.

You can check the prior forum posts for the official ruling... it was a heated discussion among gamers. This is a card that seems like it should just apply to combat damage, but doesnt. At least it sidesteps the eventual debate over whether things like Dwarf Rangers, Defend the Empire, Sadistic mutation etc constitute "combat damage"

I can't find Nate's direct quote, but I'll look for it. This is exactly the way the combo works though. If I can't find the quote you are of course welcome to email Nate the question through the link at the bottom of this page. Though reading the rulebook and the card will tell you everything you need to know, Combat starts with the declare attackers step and ends with the apply damage step, and the player action windows all lie in between those steps so are also part of combat. Shrine to Nurgle says damaged during combat not by combat, or received combat damage, or damaged by another unit, or units participating in combat, or any of the other wordings that would be required for a more limited effect.

As far as I can determine you can declare zero attackers after you declare which zone you want to target... though I have no idea why you would ever want to. If you want to corrupt all your opponents units why not attack after? If you want to prevent them from attacking you, then do it on there turn after they have already passed the opportunity to restore a unit and after they have played any new units. If you do it as an attack not only do you waste an opportunity for a free attack, but you end up likely facing several new attackers on their turn.

this ruling makes no sense in terms of theme and gameplay, but is totally correct in regards to the wording of the rules and card text. Just gotta live with it.

if you have no units in the battlefield, is there a combat phase? I think so, meaning you can still trigger the shrine, but is this official?

Ah, I see what is being asked... if you have no units in the Battlefielf you cannot attack. Is it possible to declare an attack to a zone without units that could be assigned to it? I don't know. I'd have to say yes right now because the rules don't say having units is required to declare an attack on a zone, just in order to declare attackers... *ugh*

Please send this to Nate. I suspect (and in this case I actually am hoping for a specific ruling) that he will say no, or errata the rules so it blatantly says you must have units legally able to attack in order to declare an attack against the zone... that said I still see no benefit in doing it during your turn versus your opponents turn.

Here is the specific words I wrote down when I asked Nate this question on Combat Damage and Damage during Combat (it was in person not via email so if you want to send the question into him to get it in writing I understand) - "Combat damage is damage that is assigned and applied based on the power icons of a unit participating in combat (including any additional modifiers to damage or icons on the participating units). Damage during combat is all combat damage, plus any other damage that is assigned and applied during the 5 steps of combat."

wow... Nurgles Pestilence goes straight back into my Chaos deck....

I do have one question. Where exactly in the rule book does it state "Combat Phase"? I do see the section about the "Battlefield Phase" on pages 12 - 14, however at no time does it use the word "combat" or states "combat begins". I feel this needs much more explanation. I did find on page 17 where it explains "Non Combat Damage", but this does not shed enough light on the subject.

"Attacking an opponent requires engaging in combat,
which is broken up into 5 steps:" (p. 12)

(emphasis mine)

Yeah my roommate found it at the same time I saw your reply. That is crazy insane nice. Make Nurgle's Pestilence powerful as all get out!!!

More to the point the rest of that section goes on to detail what starts and ends combat and includes a series of other sub-sections and player action windows in between.

OK, we have a official rulling from Nate

It doesn't make much sense to me gamewise, just like the Greatswords rulling, but here it goes:

My question to devs:

> I have a rules question about the card that makes many doubts on the
> Community Forums and our local gamming groups: Shrine to Nurgle...
> Is it realy THAT good for only two recources? Can it make ALL enemy
> units on the table corrupted after Nurgles Pestilence being played
> when the combat starts?
>
> Can we please get some rulling/errata on that?
>
> How does exactly it works? Which units are affected? Only declared
> as attackers/defenders or all on the table? Only damaged by "hand-to-
> hand" damage assignment (based on power/life-points) all damaged
> with any source (spells, abilities, effects etc)? Can we then
> declare an attack, cast Nurgle Pestilence to corrupt all enemy units
> and then declare zero attackers (because we had no units in the
> battlefield zone or they died due to the Pestilence)?

***

And Nate response:

Yes, Shrine to Nurgle/ Nurgle's Pestilence is a strong combo. It is on
our watch list, but there are other strong combinations in the other
factions that it has not yet come to dominate the game.

Shrine to Nurgle will affect any unit that is damaged from any source
during the process of Combat.

> Can we then declare an attack, cast Nurgle Pestilence to corrupt all
> enemy units and then declare zero attackers (because we had no units
> in the battlefield zone or they died due to the Pestilence)?

The way this would work would be:

1) Declare attackers, choose zone. You must have eligible attacking
units in the battlefield at this point, otherwise you cannot initiate
"combat."

2) Player actions: Play Nurgle's Pestilence to damage everything.

The Shrine to Nurgle's Forced response will initiate, corrupting enemy
units.

If this killed all your attacking units, combat was still initiated
they just didn't survive to the point where damage is dealt.

***

I also asked to clarify one more thing:

A little bit more of clarification is needed - does that mean that Shrine to
Nurgle effect works also on the units that are not directly engaged in the
current combat (I mean - not declared as "attackers" nor "defenders"),
hidding in all zones, just after "combat" sequence has started?

and await for the response

I have a forum question to all of you - when I browse here as unregistered user I see all the topics and posts, but when I login, only the topic titles are displayed and I need to press "REPLY" button to see whats the content of the topic. Does anyone know how to fix it?

I think he may have meant cannot not continue with combat, further engage in combat, or initiate attack.

FYI the Shrine to Nurgel, Nurgle's Pestilence, during combat has been answered by Nate at least twice before. Each time the ruling has stayed consistent, though the level of detail has varied.

dormouse said:

Possible, I suppose, but none of that is what he actually said.

No it is not, which is why the poster will hopefully send a follow up asking for clarification and/or definition of that phrase.

Sorry but I wasn't clear. The shrine to Nurgle corrupts the units that are not attackers or defenders to play a pestilence during the battle?

Thanks from Spain...this is a cause of many doubts here

Buhallin said:

As you suggested, the designers seem to differentiate between the Battlefield Phase and actual Combat, which only occurs when attackers have been declared. Seems quite reasonable, although the rules should have pointed that out. I really hope we get an "Advanced Rulebook" at some point which will clear things up.