nor the 3rd die up front.

There's a reason it has three dice up front. They're huge and bolted to the ends of the main wing.

The inclusion of the titles for these two ships hasn't reduced the sensible upgrade possibilities at all. Had they not included a title, those two ships simply wouldn't have title upgrades.

They look like HLKs strapped to wingtips.

Nope, they would have been limited to roles, and further titles would have required to take something away to avoid overprices.

while current situation has room for future titles and new roles. Great.

Even though it's completely irrational?

If the game does something I don't agree with, I'm going to complain, in the hope(however futile it may be)that it will change at some point.

If it does something I do agree with, I'm going to praise it, in the hopes that they do more of it in the future.

Even though it's completely irrational?

What's the other option? Support a decision I don't approve of?

If the game does something I don't agree with, I'm going to complain, in the hope(however futile it may be)that it will change at some point.

If it does something I do agree with, I'm going to praise it, in the hopes that they do more of it in the future.

You are going to have to adjust, because this type of thing is going to be necessary the longer the game goes on. We are pretty much at the limitation of how much pure stats and dials can differentiate a ship. So, they are going to need a little something extra. The V1 title should've been your major clue that this will be happening.

You are going to have to adjust, because this type of thing is going to be necessary the longer the game goes on. We are pretty much at the limitation of how much pure stats and dials can differentiate a ship.

Granted. But also, I'm not saying you shouldn't add additional stuff to differentiate the ship, just that you charge for it.

Even though it's completely irrational?

What's the other option? Support a decision I don't approve of?

If the game does something I don't agree with, I'm going to complain, in the hope(however futile it may be)that it will change at some point.

If it does something I do agree with, I'm going to praise it, in the hopes that they do more of it in the future.

So you acknowledge it as completely irrational?

You are going to have to adjust, because this type of thing is going to be necessary the longer the game goes on. We are pretty much at the limitation of how much pure stats and dials can differentiate a ship.

Granted. But also, I'm not saying you shouldn't add additional stuff to differentiate the ship, just that you charge for it.

Why, because then you are in the position of trying to balanced the ship without it's intended niche in a crowded area. They are opting for the choice of making the title the thing that makes the ship worth its cost, rather than trying to find the right balance for the ship without the thing they are intending to be played with anyway. Your way opens up some real possibility of another X-wing/B-wing situation.

So you acknowledge it as completely irrational?

I acknowledge it as futile. But I don't think you should abandon trying to get what you want just because it doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

its good for the forums community to know which peoples brains work right and can process why things are this way, and which people break down when they see a 0 on a card

You are going to have to adjust, because this type of thing is going to be necessary the longer the game goes on. We are pretty much at the limitation of how much pure stats and dials can differentiate a ship.

Granted. But also, I'm not saying you shouldn't add additional stuff to differentiate the ship, just that you charge for it.

It-...I-....THE CHARGE IS ALREADY THERE IN THE COST OF THE SHIP.

I like that these extra rules are part of the cost, but with a 0 cost title, I think it opens up adding other low cost titles that could change the ship function but keep the basic cost low enough that it's easier to know how to fit it into a list

pretty sure the punishing one issue is why theyre doing it. If that title didnt exist and they were a flat 12pts more by default, we probably wouldnt ever see more than 1 in a list.

I dont see it with the others yet, but the ARC i definitely see possible spam abuse if it was 5ish pts cheaper and the title cost that much. That thing has some shenanigans since it has both crew/astromech and is pretty tanky. If they had a ~20pt shmuck w/o that title and still had EPT i guarantee you we'd see lists with 3-4 of these guys and a couple of bumper ships.

There seems like there would be a better way to do this....but I guess I can't think of any without making up new rules...

Oh well. It makes sense at least to have the front guns deal more damage and for the back guns to have better aim.

You are going to have to adjust, because this type of thing is going to be necessary the longer the game goes on. We are pretty much at the limitation of how much pure stats and dials can differentiate a ship.

Granted. But also, I'm not saying you shouldn't add additional stuff to differentiate the ship, just that you charge for it.

It-...I-....THE CHARGE IS ALREADY THERE IN THE COST OF THE SHIP.

He knows that. He's saying that because it's printed on an upgrade card they have to charge for it (reducing the unupgraded ship's cost proportionally) for the simple reason that it's using the upgrade card system. He's saying that they can't use an autoinclude title to adjust the basic behaviours of a ship because -

And that's where I get stuck.

You are going to have to adjust, because this type of thing is going to be necessary the longer the game goes on. We are pretty much at the limitation of how much pure stats and dials can differentiate a ship.

Granted. But also, I'm not saying you shouldn't add additional stuff to differentiate the ship, just that you charge for it.

It-...I-....THE CHARGE IS ALREADY THERE IN THE COST OF THE SHIP.

He knows that. He's saying that because it's printed on an upgrade card they have to charge for it (reducing the unupgraded ship's cost proportionally) for the simple reason that it's using the upgrade card system. He's saying that they can't use an autoinclude title to adjust the basic behaviours of a ship because -

And that's where I get stuck.

Right. I just wish we could get someone from FFG to school this guy so this thread can end already. @_@

He's saying he doesn't like it and is refusing to accept that FFG don't want a cheaper ship with Astro / Crew floating around.

The argument is cyclic.

"They should charger the correct cost for a title"

"FFG don't want a cheaper ship with those slots"

"Well they shouldn't make it a tile"

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"
"Then they shouldn't make it a title"

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"
"Then they shouldn't make it a title"

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"
"Then they shouldn't make it a title"

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"
"Then they shouldn't make it a title"

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"
"Then they shouldn't make it a title"

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"
"Then they shouldn't make it a title"

The argument is cyclic.

Indeed. I explained awhile ago that I fully understood FFGs reasoning, and that I simply didn't agree with it. But people keep feeling the need to keep trying to explain it to me, as if the only reason I don't agree with it is because I don't "get it".

I "get it". I think "it" is wrong.

You guys are just wasting your time trying to explain things to me I already know. It's not going to change my opinion. And I'm not going to change my opinion just because some of you don't agree with it.

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"

"Then they shouldn't make it a title" "That's dumb, charge for the title anyway"

Fixed for accuracy.

What if the title was 1 point? Would you be happy?

Had they gone the route of redesigning the pilot cards to the same end, achieving the the same thing with unnecessary complication and cost, would you have been happy with that?

The argument is cyclic.

Indeed. I explained awhile ago that I fully understood FFGs reasoning, and that I simply didn't agree with it. But people keep feeling the need to keep trying to explain it to me, as if the only reason I don't agree with it is because I don't "get it".

I "get it". I think "it" is wrong.

You guys are just wasting your time trying to explain things to me I already know. It's not going to change my opinion. And I'm not going to change my opinion just because some of you don't agree with it.

"How should they do it then?"

"Charge for the title"

"So the title is the right way to do it then?"

"Yes but they shoudl charge for it"

"No but FFG don't want to make a cheap Astro / Crew ship"

"Then they shouldn't make it a title" "That's dumb, charge for the title anyway"

Fixed for accuracy.

And that's why YOU are inherently wrong. You're welcome to have your opinion - but just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's right. And the 0-point title is fine; the ARC is pricey enough as it is, especially with the upgrades.

I think I might have solved everyone's problems with this.

You're welcome.

I think I might have solved everyone's problems with this.

You're welcome.

fixed it, the size was wrong compared to the ship card

I think I might have solved everyone's problems with this.

You're welcome.

fixed it, the size was wrong compared to the ship card

But now I can't read the..... oh

just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's right.

No. But the fact that it's my opinion means it's right. Because I know better than everyone.

Talonbane illustrates it quite nicely. All ships have a basic state from which you can't really downgrade: usually that state can be represented by the pilot card but not always. Autoinclude titles just give FFG more space for rules text. That's why the Aggressor has a title rather than adding the mindlink to the pilot ability.

Right, this BS has gone on long enough, I think. Could a moderator please shut this down already?