Only watched the first five minutes or so, but already I think these guys are way over reacting.

It's what I call being a "rumpus" (child hood friend nickname as he overer exaggerated everything)

While there are some valid points thus far, Biggs a wave 1 pilot still does pretty awesome

These guys mentioned that flying 4 scouts would be amazing and destroy just about anything, but I don't think so.

High agility ace squads would probably still tear them apart. Two attack dice will never get pass autothrusters and turtle up ships.

A 25 pts xwing vs a scout will come down to a few things.

If the xwing player is smart enough, with his rocks, and get the scout player to fly into it, he may stand a chance chance.

While the scout will only have two attack dice, the xwing will have 3, so at this point may come down to luck of the rolls.

Hell tarn with an r7 is 25 pts, and my money 1 vs 1 would be on tarn

If you watch the whole video they give us a good picture of why we so many complainy topics getting posted here. I get it better now. they make some good points in the full video.

I agree with Heychadwick, in that X-wings are brill in epic, and yeah JBR7 you are into casual so you shouldn't care about the 100/100 tourney format because that is not the best format for casual play.

I have not played a 100 point game in over two years... cept for cool RPG'ish missions.

Just the tone of this dude's voice in the YouTube video and the way he elongates his favorite words makes me LOVE T-65's more than ever. Eeeeeeeeeeveerrr.

Then my point rests. Your arguments regarding people playing as the meta most efficient in tournament play is mostly moot.

I'd like to see all ships being truly equal but that frankly is nigh impossible, so yeah. Have fun playing non tourney games.

My dream campaign is to this day a list of randomly generated relatively fair missions of various types played with 2-3 sides (with no or minimal side on side) and objectives.

Maybe a mission is just a 100/100. But then, what if there are pre-gen squadrons? What if a mission is a strike or escort? Suddenly soontir mcarcdodger has to quick kill something, buuuut he can't without exposing himself to return fire.

Corran running away to recharge won't help him.

4 generic x-wings though.....

Just the tone of this dude's voice in the YouTube video and the way he elongates his favorite words makes me LOVE T-65's more than ever. Eeeeeeeeeeveerrr.

I have fourteen X-Wings for many good reasons, but I am understanding why so many people have the hate on for the T-65 and even more hate for T-70 because they are OT Peeps.

I think 100 vs 100 is a good format for casual play.

You don't have to optimise everything to play a casual game, casual games aren't going to become 6 Jumpmasters becasue both players are trying to get the best value for points.

I play all sorts of lists when I play x-wing and mostly they 100 point games, it keeps it short and an interesting challenge to try and use thing i want but not go mad on upgrades and stuff.

I've got about 2 dozen Epic games under my belt and I can guarantee that X-Wings are definitely all-stars in Epic.

However, from a business standpoint, these guys do make a point. If FFG wants to sell product, or get people to play more of their product, then it should perform well at the most popular events. Whether or not 100/100 standard is more popular than the casual play is true, it is definitely the format that gets the most media coverage, the most widely and easily played format available, and I'm assuming it's the format that most people will use as a litmus test for deciding what and how much they want to purchase.

There are some extremely strong X-Wing lists (3 Amigos) and lists that utilize the X-Wing (Tarn + 6 Z-95s) in comparison to just the standard Jumpmaster builds. Are they as good as the UUU build? It's all relative to the player's ability, however, it is undeniable that the scouts are too inexpensive and that 65s are too expensive as generics and named pilots.

As more options became available and the game progresses, outdated products become more and more obsolete. This is why we hear people screaming for fixes. They want a return on investment, whether that's the ability to play a ship they adore with a competitive edge or to have more options in ways to field that ship.

When they referred to Manaroo as a "he," I kinda lost respect for the whole video.

#loresnob

I think 100 vs 100 is a good format for casual play.

You don't have to optimise everything to play a casual game, casual games aren't going to become 6 Jumpmasters becasue both players are trying to get the best value for points.

I play all sorts of lists when I play x-wing and mostly they 100 point games, it keeps it short and an interesting challenge to try and use thing i want but not go mad on upgrades and stuff.

It depends on the setting, with friends casually eh maybe, but it depends on the personality.

One of my best friends has a very WAAC attitude. Makes fixed tourney a bad experience, as he will always go for the most efficient 100/100 he can find. Mixing up possible objectives makes things way more interesting.

I fail to see why bad opinions from bad players reflects on the whole community.

I fail to see why bad opinions from bad players reflects on the whole community.

Toxicity can be contagious.

X-wings in a mission format are actually not bad. Good firepower, good speed for escorts, medium price range and flexible.

Only when you go super-efficient for 100/100 dogfight are they beaten down by the rest, and even then that's less and less.

X-wings in epic aren't bad either.

PS4-5 3-attack 2 evade ships rule the epic fields, actually.

Point is: 100 pts dogfight is Acewing, with PS race and PTL-addiction.

150 is a great place to live already

Yeah I like 150. I acknowledge that x-wings are actually quite good in Epic. My point was that in the 100/100 format, then specific builds will always rule the meta.

My gut says wait for Rogue One. Rebel Veterans will be X and Y Wings in R1 colours, probably with the pilots, and there'll be some cards to bring back the game's namesake from the brink of nerd rage oblivion.

"If you want it you must will it, and if you will it it will be yours." Sven-think.

Commenting on the epic format, while I have had two dozen games like some, I do have about a dozen or so games, so have some experience with epic

As for fielding xwing in epic yes, they do have a better home there, but I've come to find fielding a bunch of bwings escorted by Biggs a better option than fielding a bunch of xwing

It's just a lot of hp to chew through, even the raider and tantive have a hard time because Biggs is there. Allowing the slow moving bwings to get in close and unload.

I do love epic play.

Cheaper than Wes!

Harrible! Harrible!

Good lord, it's like in Walking Dead when Carl does anything and all you as the viewer can think is: CARL! Get back in the house Carl! CARL!

That's what I'm hearing when he says... anything.

Oh pew, this "light" double JM5K + Iggy list was tame! Um, sorry mates but 31 points on a JM5K is not light. You're just missing the R4. Whoopty foop!

X-Wings get pasted by triple large base list, ergo X-WIngs are...

HARRIBLE!

When they referred to Manaroo as a "he," I kinda lost respect for the whole video.

#loresnob

Yeah everyone knows manaroo identifies as an A-10 warthog.

I fail to see why bad opinions from bad players reflects on the whole community.

Toxicity can be contagious.

That's a good point. My apologies for bumping a troll thread.

No apology required, though I'd never call any of JBR7's threads troll threads.

He has an opinion, it's valid. This one though I just don't agree with.

Only watched the first five minutes or so, but already I think these guys are way over reacting.

It's what I call being a "rumpus" (child hood friend nickname as he overer exaggerated everything)

While there are some valid points thus far, Biggs a wave 1 pilot still does pretty awesome

These guys mentioned that flying 4 scouts would be amazing and destroy just about anything, but I don't think so.

High agility ace squads would probably still tear them apart. Two attack dice will never get pass autothrusters and turtle up ships.

A 25 pts xwing vs a scout will come down to a few things.

If the xwing player is smart enough, with his rocks, and get the scout player to fly into it, he may stand a chance chance.

While the scout will only have two attack dice, the xwing will have 3, so at this point may come down to luck of the rolls.

Hell tarn with an r7 is 25 pts, and my money 1 vs 1 would be on tarn

If you watch the whole video they give us a good picture of why we so many complainy topics getting posted here. I get it better now. they make some good points in the full video.

I updated my original post bottom of page 1

To sum up what I said. These two are toxic

Sorry first few min they made couple points, after the 5-8 min mark it went downhill

I don't think playing the game for a few month is enough to make you an expert.

They didn't seem very knowledgeable to be veteran players

3 games played with T-65. Lost 3 games.

3 games played with T-70. Won 2. Lost 1.

4 games played with Firespray. Won 3. Lost 1.

2 games played with K-Wing. Lost 2 games.

10 games don't make me a veteran. But the T-65 hasn't been doing well, even when it's Luke and R2.

Um, additionally though...

What's with all this anti-meta sentimentality JB? Seems kind of off flavour for you, a normally happy go lucky forum user... I can't help think something has happened to make you a bit bitter. If the local meta is what is really getting you down then jump it. Figure out how to beat it and then beat it. Or continue to fly your favourites and try to adapt them. If you can't adapt an old list well then maybe it's just reached it's peak for now? Or maybe it's not the meta, but the mentality? In that case find better opponents. Plain and simple. Or do as I like to do (at work, not with X-Wing) and kill them with kindness. Believe me, I love to **** with people, but that joy is quickly soured when my victim is unflappable! It's pretty hard to gloat about your stunning triple JM5K list that is 10-0 when the people whom, by rights, should be cursing your name, are praising you. Believe me, a gracious opponent takes the wind right out of my evil-intentioned sails!

But seriously Joe. You're a force for good on this forum, don't let the meta-rage turn your thrusters off.

@ tyrse kem

Well I did say there were a couple of good points.

It's no secret the t-65 is not in a good place, but a few games from one player is not enough to go by.

I've been using Biggs a lot lately, with Kanan, and I haven't lost yet. I'm up to 7 wins. That's players on vassal and friends.

Every game Biggs does not die easy (that's if he did die, some games he was still flying around), and 3 of those was Palpatine and aces (one being a store championship winner)

My point, if what these guys said was correct, I shouldn't be winning this many games with my list. Believe me, Biggs does his job and in some games the mvp and still alive at the end

Another ship I've done well (haven't used since wave 7 is tarn with r7

If tarn with r7 was to go toe to toe with a scout with no upgrades my money is on tarn

Also wedge with PTL and bb8 is a scary ship in the right hands.

A guy got second place in a tournament a few months back with him

I've also seen other players use wedge with bb8 quite well

It's fairly obvious the guys in the video are over exaggerating and are not very knowledgeable yet

Luke with R2 is not that grea in today's meta.

Fielding 3 ace t-65 aces in today's meta is not that great either, but a single t-65 pilot can still find a home

Even if it's 3. Wedge, tarn and Biggs that's still more than the firespray, shuttle (which usually only sees omnicron and sometimes yorr) Ewing, kwing, scyks, talabane cobra, star vipers, and at the moment bombers and defenders

@ tyrse kem

but a few games from one player is not enough to go by.

No

But at least I'm not SAYING it's broken, nerf, doomed.

Instead I SHOWED how it currently stands in my limited experience.

I've noticed that I fly aggressively and often need to KTurn. So in my games I should consider Targeting Astromechs. R2 doesn't use his ability much as I end up with Ties up my six and I KTurn to shoot them. R2 needs greens after all .

I'm a Jouster.

@ tyrse kem

but a few games from one player is not enough to go by.

No

But at least I'm not SAYING it's broken, nerf, doomed.

Instead I SHOWED how it currently stands in my limited experience.

I've noticed that I fly aggressively and often need to KTurn. So in my games I should consider Targeting Astromechs. R2 doesn't use his ability much as I end up with Ties up my six and I KTurn to shoot them. R2 needs greens after all .

I'm a Jouster.

Who basically say all t-65 are terrible.

When In fact there are still a couple of pilots who can do well given the right squad which is still better than other ships.

I agree it's not a great ship, and requires skill and effort to do well, but it's nowhere near as bad as these two make it out.

The whole video was pretty bad imo

My problem is with videos like this is, it can be misleading to new players who may take them knowledgeable players who know what they're talking about