Right?

5pts for vet guns?

In a meta where gunnery teams are by no means "must take" veteran gunners clock in as better than Vader in so many ways it hurts.

you can put veteran gunners on a 3 ship list (or where Vader usually finds himself, in a 2 ISD list) and have a similar effect with NO ditching defenses, cheap point cost, and the opportunity advantage of taking another admiral.

Vader already held a very maligned place in my esteem in this game and as far as I'm concerned he just got handed his walking papers.

See you where you belong, Vader, in a Tie advanced dying before bombers....

5 points with an effect of having to reroll everything .... no thanks!

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from the dubious potential of spending dice on some objectives and the like, doesn't Vet-Gunners force you to reroll all dice in your attack pool where as Vader is a nice pick and choose? Then there's the opportunity cost of losing the potential to use Ruthless Strategist, Flight Controller, or the biggun' Gunnery Teams. Not to mention it's an exhaustible card (which may or may not do something with the new weapons/titles) which means that if I get a really good shot at double arcing another ship, I can't use it twice.

Honestly, Vet Gunnery is looking like one of the worst options on the block at this point. (and I don't use 'worst' lightly. I've used sensor teams in the past just to get that accuracy, but I don't get how to use this one to any great effect yet.)

Veteran Gunners may find a home on Assault Frigates, who have limited dice manipulation options.

Vykes is right, Vet Gunners is an all or nothing deal. You re-roll them all. Most of us are of quite the opposite opinion to the OP: Vet Gunners is **** near useless.

I really liked how IFF came to the conclusion they were useless...

And then on the next WWPD stream day, we see an Assault Frigate who was absolutely begging for them... Twice at least.

AFs could use them moderately often. Really, what I think they'd prefer is something that lets them get conc fire tokens every turn. Something like Raymus but cheaper. Cuz, AFs and Ackbar have devastating weaknesses to mass squadron and to 5 ship.

Welcome to the emotions cycle with Veteran Gunners:

1. HOLY CRAP THESE GUYS ARE AMAZING
2. Wait, reroll all the dice? Hrm... maybe?
3. Nah, nevermind, I've got better things to do with those points/slot.

I don't think they're quite so bad as the final conclusion has anyone believe but it's very common to read them as a "reroll all the dice you want" ability on first glance only to discover they are not pick and choose. Could still be handy on ships with lots of fickle red dice, though.

aww, you guys are always trying to ruin my Vader hate-parties.

fine, yes they re-roll all dice. I would pay 5 points for that on some rolls I've had tho. Also re-roll stacking it would be your first tap. (vet guns, leading shots) Vader can still go almost DIAF (again)

aww, you guys are always trying to ruin my Vader hate-parties.

fine, yes they re-roll all dice. I would pay 5 points for that on some rolls I've had tho. Also re-roll stacking it would be your first tap. (vet guns, leading shots) Vader can still go almost DIAF (again)

Lets not mention that if you have Gunnery Teams that they can only be used once. . . and it is 5 points per ship and it takes up a valuable slot.

I mean you can always use Veteran Gunners AND Vader. Reroll the initial roll if the dice pool is poor and then determine if you need to further refine it using Vader. Might be overkill, but I'd have to see it in action to be sure.

You could use ordnance experts on glads and raiders 1 point less. Leading Shots for ISDs since you are throwing 8 dice. So not really.

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

My main concern with this method is generating an overabundance of Accuracy results after the reroll. Some secondary form of dice modification (more rerolls) or a way to turn excess Accuracy results into damage (SW7s, Warlord, Turbolaser Reroute Circuits) would certainly help even it out, however.

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the P command.

◊ Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its G icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

I had this wrong as well but you can. They are not individual steps so they are interchangeable. Both actions are part of the Modify step.

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

I had this wrong as well but you can. They are not individual steps so they are interchangeable. Both actions are part of the Modify step.

Aha well that do give the Vet gunners a usefullness

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

Trust me. People already tried to take me to task for that. But as was pointed out, they're both modifications that happen at the same time, ergo, you choose the order in which they are resolved.

The guy who rolled nothing but accuracies and blanks a month ago, when shooting at my ship, could really have used Vet gunners

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

Trust me. People already tried to take me to task for that. But as was pointed out, they're both modifications that happen at the same time, ergo, you choose the order in which they are resolved.

Wait so you are saying you can lock down something with an accuracy and then re-roll it?

Or are you saying after you spend the accuracy you then set it aside and re-roll everything else?

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

Trust me. People already tried to take me to task for that. But as was pointed out, they're both modifications that happen at the same time, ergo, you choose the order in which they are resolved.

Wait so you are saying you can lock down something with an accuracy and then re-roll it?

Or are you saying after you spend the accuracy you then set it aside and re-roll everything else?

The second.

Spending Accuracies are a part of the modify step so you can use them in any order and even interchange them.

So you can go;

Roll attack pool

Spend accuracies,

Use Veteran Gunners

Spend another accuracy

Use leading shots (or vader)

Etc.

Roll Dice.

Spend Accuracy.

Reroll the rest to fish for Damage, because you've already locked down the brace...

Ehmm you cant modify dice after you've spend accuracies

Trust me. People already tried to take me to task for that. But as was pointed out, they're both modifications that happen at the same time, ergo, you choose the order in which they are resolved.

Wait so you are saying you can lock down something with an accuracy and then re-roll it?

Or are you saying after you spend the accuracy you then set it aside and re-roll everything else?

I'd like a clarification too. I mean, can this happen for example with a regular cf token? What about Screed? And leading shot too?

It seems really weird and counterintuitive, very confusing.

Ok, lets say VG's are a heap of fiery rubbish, what would make them less so? What could they offer down the line that makes it an ok combination?

Spent Accuracy icon dice are removed from your pool. You can spend them before rerolling everything else with Veteran Gunners, but those Accuracy dice are gone for good and do not get rerolled.

Spent Accuracy icon dice are removed from your pool. You can spend them before rerolling everything else with Veteran Gunners, but those Accuracy dice are gone for good and do not get rerolled.

That's interesting, confusing and I don't have a clue where it says that in the rules.

Although I like that ruling.

I'm also not sure whether accuracies should be all spent together.