There is so much non-objective bias in this thread...

I think Autothrusters is correctly costed and a good thing to exist in the game in general, but I'd really like to see another good 2 point Modification so that Autothrusters had some competition for the slot. It's far and away the stand-out Modification options for its cost.

There is so much non-objective bias in this thread...

So you think there's such a thing as objective bias?

AT arnt the problem PWT are.

No. Autothrusters are not a problem. I see more of problem with ordnance and the alpha strike. They needed to fix ordnance, but may have overdone it. Perhaps guidance chips should cost a point, also long range scanners. The max dice, max modified dice race is getting out of control.

No. Autothrusters are not a problem. I see more of problem with ordnance and the alpha strike. They needed to fix ordnance, but may have overdone it. Perhaps guidance chips should cost a point, also long range scanners. The max dice, max modified dice race is getting out of control.

No. Autothrusters are not a problem. I see more of problem with ordnance and the alpha strike. They needed to fix ordnance, but may have overdone it. Perhaps guidance chips should cost a point, also long range scanners. The max dice, max modified dice race is getting out of control.

Typical Palp Aces player. Plays ships that can convert blank blank focus into 4 evade results but whines when something can turn 2 hits into 4 to deal with his BS.

We had to deal with these players last wave too. "Stresshog is too good for its points, it's an /autoinclude/." Soontir players complaining about autoincludes! It's almost as bad as a Poe Han player complaining about how quad TLT takes no skill.

So now we got Palp Mobile, PWTs, Stresshog, U-boats as the cause of all the bad things with X-wing.

Come on people I wish you would just stop playing list that win so I can have fun by winning.

No. Autothrusters are not a problem. I see more of problem with ordnance and the alpha strike. They needed to fix ordnance, but may have overdone it. Perhaps guidance chips should cost a point, also long range scanners. The max dice, max modified dice race is getting out of control.

lol, for 7 waves straight ordnance was gimped as hell and NEVER USED IN PUBLIC

now they say it's a problem, hurr hurr!

If I remember correctly Autothrusters were first designed to bring balance to the game...

Should have been a dual card where you choose either out of arc or range 3 as the effect.

And while I understand the argument for letting them activate at range three so as to not have them be useless against non-turret lists, I think that did make them a bit too good. The only way you can really kill a Soontir without having some sort of auto hit or control is to make him bump, and catch him a couple of arcs at range 1-2, that's very difficult to do against a good ace player and that's why I think Palp aces is owning the meta right now.

No. Autothrusters are not a problem. I see more of problem with ordnance and the alpha strike. They needed to fix ordnance, but may have overdone it. Perhaps guidance chips should cost a point, also long range scanners. The max dice, max modified dice race is getting out of control.

lol, for 7 waves straight ordnance was gimped as hell and NEVER USED IN PUBLIC

now they say it's a problem, hurr hurr!

Redline has been decent since he came out. Both myself and one of my friends have won tournaments with him. He didn't even need guidance chips. People just don't like running him, or struggle to keep a 9-health one-agility ship alive for more than one turn. I haven't managed to run him against torpedo boats mostly because my local meta doesn't have that many of them.

IMHO, the 'correct' thing to have dealt with the problem with PWTs was not adding the AT upgrade, but rather errata'ing turrets to always work that way regardless of what the thing they are shooting at has equipped.

Would probably have done far more harm than good in the end I think. I much prefer FFGs way of giving people incentives to stay in arc rather than errata a penalty. Dengar and Rey are both excellently designed because they are not worth their points unless you keep them in arc for multiple turns.

If I remember correctly Autothrusters were first designed to bring balance to the game...

It's Mitochlorian levels are off the chart at 2 points.

It was meant to bring balance to the game, not to destroy it!

Either a point more or drop the range 3 bonus part.

At 2 points and for what it does no wonder everyone takes it over a hull upgrade for example.

It's fine. Fly casual, bros.

I don't use them much at all.. I would rather scrape up another point and put push the limit on things. Auto-thrusters just aren't all that to me... I play Imperial mostly and would rather have cards that are on tap. Not ones that are situational...

Frankly, the ideal solution would probably be a points rebalance for all turret effects* and giving every ship with a pwt or turret upgrade a smaller dial** to choose a facing for the turret during the planning phase. But it's way too late for that.

*apart from Hot Shot Blaster, to give it a little more utility and not require every ship with an illicit slot to have turret arcs on the base.

*Like the dials Armada uses for speed and commands.

Well if they costed 2.5 pts. maybe they'd be perfect.... but hey it's not that big of a deal costed at 2. There are some situations where they are not an auto-include, like where ordnance comes into the picture and you can get chips instead.

As it is, there's only one card I feel the game would be better without (or more expensive costed), that's Palp.

Well if they costed 2.5 pts. maybe they'd be perfect.... but hey it's not that big of a deal costed at 2. There are some situations where they are not an auto-include, like where ordnance comes into the picture and you can get chips instead.

As it is, there's only one card I feel the game would be better without (or more expensive costed), that's Palp.

This, get rid of Palpatine.

Well if they costed 2.5 pts. maybe they'd be perfect.... but hey it's not that big of a deal costed at 2. There are some situations where they are not an auto-include, like where ordnance comes into the picture and you can get chips instead.

As it is, there's only one card I feel the game would be better without (or more expensive costed), that's Palp.

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw), it's a very lazily designed card. There is no range or in arc limit or action requirement on it. There is no nuance to the card, it's just a boring universal effect.

This is the same poor design that C-3PO suffers from. Why can't that stupid card prohibit guesses of zero. You're not actually guessing anything, you're just getting an evade result 100% of the time.

Kanan crew is also poorly designed. No, I take it back, it's actually very well designed. The problem is that /you shouldn't be range 1 of yourself/, one should have to carry this on another ship to buff another.

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw)

Some proof accompanying blanket statements like this from time to time would be nice

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw)

Some proof accompanying blanket statements like this from time to time would be nice

Okay. If a 29 point Palp shuttle saves Soontir from damage 3 times it's more than paid for itself.

Palpatine tends to trigger way more than 3 times a game.

Palp is strong but i actually get more use out of him being bait than actually using him.

At least palp makes sense for what he does. He is the most powerful sith lord we have seen to date and a pretty good strategist to boot. You may disagree with his ability but it makes sense he can do it.

You explain to me how 3po helps to evade anything.

R2D2 would have made way more sense, he was at least a mechanic.

Well if they costed 2.5 pts. maybe they'd be perfect.... but hey it's not that big of a deal costed at 2. There are some situations where they are not an auto-include, like where ordnance comes into the picture and you can get chips instead.

As it is, there's only one card I feel the game would be better without (or more expensive costed), that's Palp.

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw), it's a very lazily designed card. There is no range or in arc limit or action requirement on it. There is no nuance to the card, it's just a boring universal effect.

This is the same poor design that C-3PO suffers from. Why can't that stupid card prohibit guesses of zero. You're not actually guessing anything, you're just getting an evade result 100% of the time.

Kanan crew is also poorly designed. No, I take it back, it's actually very well designed. The problem is that /you shouldn't be range 1 of yourself/, one should have to carry this on another ship to buff another.

Is there any Mathwing justification to how much Autothrusters SHOULD cost?

I don't know offhand, but you could develop one. The problem is that it's an upgrade that triggers based on position but has a mathematical effect--so you have to start by quantifying (i.e., making an assumption about) how often it's likely to trigger.

Either a point more or drop the range 3 bonus part.

At 2 points and for what it does no wonder everyone takes it over a hull upgrade for example.

Hull Upgrade wasn't used even before Autothrusters existed.

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw)

Some proof accompanying blanket statements like this from time to time would be nice

Agreed with respect to PGS and unsupported blanket statements, but in this case he's right. In a typical match with Palpatine he saves enough damage and pushes through enough damage to be worth a lot more than he costs--sometimes even multiples of his cost.

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw)

Some proof accompanying blanket statements like this from time to time would be nice

*shrugs*

Okay. If a 29 point Palp shuttle saves Soontir from damage 3 times it's more than paid for itself.

Palpatine tends to trigger way more than 3 times a game.

All that would prove is Palpatine is undercosted. Undercosted does not mean broken and it's also noting unusual in X-wing (Inquisitor for example is also undercosted as hell according to MJ). How exactly is Palpatine 'broken'?

Well if they costed 2.5 pts. maybe they'd be perfect.... but hey it's not that big of a deal costed at 2. There are some situations where they are not an auto-include, like where ordnance comes into the picture and you can get chips instead.

As it is, there's only one card I feel the game would be better without (or more expensive costed), that's Palp.

Even if you think Palpatine isn't broken (you'd be blatantly wrong, btw), it's a very lazily designed card. There is no range or in arc limit or action requirement on it. There is no nuance to the card, it's just a boring universal effect.

This is the same poor design that C-3PO suffers from. Why can't that stupid card prohibit guesses of zero. You're not actually guessing anything, you're just getting an evade result 100% of the time.

Kanan crew is also poorly designed. No, I take it back, it's actually very well designed. The problem is that /you shouldn't be range 1 of yourself/, one should have to carry this on another ship to buff another.

I don't necessarily think the in range restrictions or arc limits always solve everything, and if you think about it points is another such restriction in the game. If he were 20+ points people might not use him much except in epic games, which is kind of where he belongs. The power to tax is the power to destroy.

C-3PO has a once per round restriction, but nevertheless he still manages to be cheesy. They probably thought they were real smart when designing that one!

Whereas a well designed card (autothrusters IMO) you have to set things up properly to get the bonus, you don't just get it automatically... and thus you can be outplayed. There's no way to outplay palp, he's there to cut back your good luck and good plays, and stab the knife deeper when his own side makes a good play.