Of COURSE Autothrusters are worth more than the 2 points you pay for them. It's a bloody fix card. Guess what? TIE/X1 and Integrated Astromech are too cheap for their game effect, too. Interceptors need Autothrusters to be even halfway viable in the era of primary turrets and ordnance, and everything else that can take them is either overpriced, has another keenly-priced option competing for its mod slot or is a 2-red-dice tank for who's trading attacking punch for defensive stoutness*.

The one outlier is The Inquisitor, but his whole entire deal is that he's awesome at R3 and vulnerable at R1. And he's supremely vulnerable to every PS9+ pilot in the game unless you want to severely hurt his capabilities by ditching PTL.

* - Or in the case of the Punisher, all three.

The game relied heavily on guessing where your opponent is going to go in order to get them in arc.

And then bastards started using two post-maneuver actions with repositioning and over-the-top PS

FIlthy dodgers killing our game,a nd Turrets unable to counter them due to autothrusters >:C

The repositioning was never a problem with my friends and I. At least it still required some guess work when setting the dial. If you think I'm going to go left, set your dial accordingly, but I go right, your repositioning won't get you in arc.

It's the turrets that took away that guessing game.

Flying Han with gunner for example, it didn't matter what kind of shenanigans fel did, I always had a shot on him If he could shoot me

In most cases I'd kill fel with the turret because he only has 3 hp and 3 green dice

Ffg obviously noticed this and thus we have autothrusters.

Imagine trying to use fel today if there was no emperor, or autothrusters.

Interceptors would be like scyks. With the fat dashes, tripple u boats, fat Hans flying around.

The turrets have definitely took some of the fun out of the game.

I only have 2 people in my area, and one of them really does not like turrets.

As he said he enjoyed the setting dials and trying to figure where each ship is going.

Turrets kind of takes that aspect of the game away for some.

I've seen his interest in the game decline now with each wave.

I'm sure he's not alone

While I do love the game, and am more hardcore than my friends, I also see, and can agree with his concern.

Turrets at times just don't make the game fun.

I'm glad interceptors have autothrusters, they need them, but really if turrets were handled a little better than maybe we wouldn't need then.

Looking back at wave 3 if the falcon at the time penalized a player for shooting out of arc by reducing their attack dice by 1, it would still encourage players getting ships into arcs, and not just fly circles around the board.

There isnt anything fun about that regardless what side of the fence your on

If I'm Winning or losing, I never find the game fun when it becomes a completely one sided game. In fact it's those games I hate the most. Regardless if I'm winning or losing

I think the in arc r3 thing is the problem. I dont see why it was necessary to make AT ships even more resistant to in arc shots.

The game relied heavily on guessing where your opponent is going to go in order to get them in arc.

And then bastards started using two post-maneuver actions with repositioning and over-the-top PS

FIlthy dodgers killing our game,a nd Turrets unable to counter them due to autothrusters >:C

While I do love the game, and am more hardcore than my friends, I also see, and can agree with his concern.

Turrets at times just don't make the game fun. I'm glad interceptors have autothrusters, they need them, but really if turrets were handled a little better than maybe we wouldn't need then. I never find the game fun when it becomes a completely one sided game. In fact it's those games I hate the most. Regardless if I'm winning or losing

A few things.

First, the number of ships that can equip ATs is limited.

Second, FFG wouldn't have even needed to make this upgrade if the number of 360 firing ships hadn't exploded.

Third, stop complaining that there's a counter to your ability to shoot anything regardless of your ability to get them into your firing arc....

No one complains (legitimately at least) that BTL is overpowered. Why? Because of the Y-wings movement dial and that it takes away it's 360 firing ability. Before ATs were released, there were 5 ships that could fire outside of their arcs. As someone who played the Empire exclusively, this made the game suck. And since ATs were released, 5 more ships that can fire outside of their arc have been released, and the Empire has only one of them.

Want to make ATs more expensive or get rid of them? Then make it so you have to burn a focus to shoot outside of your arc, or some other penalty. But since that's not happening, Ats are fine just how they are.

I think AT is just fine as it is, but if I were to change anything it would be to make it effective only out of arc and cost it 0pts. The price would be the modification slot. But even then, I still prefer the current version.

lol, for 7 waves straight ordnance was gimped as hell and NEVER USED IN PUBLIC

now they say it's a problem, hurr hurr!

I KNEW that would happen

lol, for 7 waves straight ordnance was gimped as hell and NEVER USED IN PUBLIC

now they say it's a problem, hurr hurr!

I KNEW that would happen

I think AT is just fine as it is, but if I were to change anything it would be to make it effective only out of arc and cost it 0pts. The price would be the modification slot. But even then, I still prefer the current version.

I was actually thinking exactly the same earlier. I mean, I don't prefer it, but I think it would have been an viable option in the brave new world of 0pt mods.

I DO think Autothrusters should have cost 3 pts, at a minimum. It has always felt just a little to cheap for what you get.

At the same time, a 36 pt Soontir and an Aggressor with 1pt less of upgrades would not be in a much worse spot than it is now. Soontir would only miss out on his Initiative bid. Inquisitor would be the same, barely losing anything. You just wouldn't run him at if you couldn't fit 32 pts in your list. Aggressor might have to forego its illicit upgrade.

It would honestly only be the low PS Autothrusters carriers that would be hurt by it costing 3 pts. 5 x A Wings + Autothrusters would get 5 less pts to work with. Triple A Wing lists might have to forgo Proton Rockets on one ship. Low PS TAPs would be even less threatening than they seem to be so far.

I still think that AT cost too few points, but it's a shame that lower PS ships that want to run it would be far more hurt by it changing than the higher PS ships.

I DO think Autothrusters should have cost 3 pts, at a minimum. It has always felt just a little to cheap for what you get.

At the same time, a 36 pt Soontir and an Aggressor with 1pt less of upgrades would not be in a much worse spot than it is now. Soontir would only miss out on his Initiative bid. Inquisitor would be the same, barely losing anything. You just wouldn't run him at if you couldn't fit 32 pts in your list. Aggressor might have to forego its illicit upgrade.

It would honestly only be the low PS Autothrusters carriers that would be hurt by it costing 3 pts. 5 x A Wings + Autothrusters would get 5 less pts to work with. Triple A Wing lists might have to forgo Proton Rockets on one ship. Low PS TAPs would be even less threatening than they seem to be so far.

I still think that AT cost too few points, but it's a shame that lower PS ships that want to run it would be far more hurt by it changing than the higher PS ships.

That's the problem. All the stuff it's overpowered on is not phased by a one point increase. Same with VI.

Bank boost needs to be made red in order to curb Acewing. It doesn't really matter how many points a ship costs when it's invincible, nerfing how it actually plays on the table is a better way of fixing the problem. Imagine that instead of nerfing decloak, FFG just errated ACD to cost 8 points instead of 4. Would that have accomplished anything? No.

Make bank boost red. Bank barrel roll is red and limited to one ship, bank decloak is limited to one ship. Why does everything with boost get to do freebie 45 degree turns?

I DO think Autothrusters should have cost 3 pts, at a minimum. It has always felt just a little to cheap for what you get.

At the same time, a 36 pt Soontir and an Aggressor with 1pt less of upgrades would not be in a much worse spot than it is now. Soontir would only miss out on his Initiative bid. Inquisitor would be the same, barely losing anything. You just wouldn't run him at if you couldn't fit 32 pts in your list. Aggressor might have to forego its illicit upgrade.

It would honestly only be the low PS Autothrusters carriers that would be hurt by it costing 3 pts. 5 x A Wings + Autothrusters would get 5 less pts to work with. Triple A Wing lists might have to forgo Proton Rockets on one ship. Low PS TAPs would be even less threatening than they seem to be so far.

I still think that AT cost too few points, but it's a shame that lower PS ships that want to run it would be far more hurt by it changing than the higher PS ships.

That's the problem. All the stuff it's overpowered on is not phased by a one point increase. Same with VI.

Bank boost needs to be made red in order to curb Acewing. It doesn't really matter how many points a ship costs when it's invincible, nerfing how it actually plays on the table is a better way of fixing the problem. Imagine that instead of nerfing decloak, FFG just errated ACD to cost 8 points instead of 4. Would that have accomplished anything? No.

Make bank boost red. Bank barrel roll is red and limited to one ship, bank decloak is limited to one ship. Why does everything with boost get to do freebie 45 degree turns?

Because it's fun to have some ships in the game where your skill of actually planning maneuvers is important. The game is designed to play like a dog fight after all, so some ships are going to be able to out-fly other ships, especially if they have low firepower AND and low hitpoints. Autothrusters only got put into the game because too many ships had 360 deg arcs and they were completely defeating the ethos of a small, highly maneuverable fighter's ability to get behind a slower ship to shoot it and not be shot at.

You're basically asking "Why can arc dodgers dodge arcs?" Because if they couldn't, no one would play them and it would be boring tank battles all the time. Stop complaining that a ship that you can kill in one attack given a bad roll on their part can fly circles around your ship.

Autothrusters are fine as is, and the boost ability is fine just the way it is. Why? Because boosting actually costs a lot given that you can't focus or evade. So for boost to be even remotely worth using, you have to be able to get out of someone's arc which means banking most of the time.

I DO think Autothrusters should have cost 3 pts, at a minimum. It has always felt just a little to cheap for what you get.

At the same time, a 36 pt Soontir and an Aggressor with 1pt less of upgrades would not be in a much worse spot than it is now. Soontir would only miss out on his Initiative bid. Inquisitor would be the same, barely losing anything. You just wouldn't run him at if you couldn't fit 32 pts in your list. Aggressor might have to forego its illicit upgrade.

It would honestly only be the low PS Autothrusters carriers that would be hurt by it costing 3 pts. 5 x A Wings + Autothrusters would get 5 less pts to work with. Triple A Wing lists might have to forgo Proton Rockets on one ship. Low PS TAPs would be even less threatening than they seem to be so far.

I still think that AT cost too few points, but it's a shame that lower PS ships that want to run it would be far more hurt by it changing than the higher PS ships.

That's the problem. All the stuff it's overpowered on is not phased by a one point increase. Same with VI.

Bank boost needs to be made red in order to curb Acewing. It doesn't really matter how many points a ship costs when it's invincible, nerfing how it actually plays on the table is a better way of fixing the problem. Imagine that instead of nerfing decloak, FFG just errated ACD to cost 8 points instead of 4. Would that have accomplished anything? No.

Make bank boost red. Bank barrel roll is red and limited to one ship, bank decloak is limited to one ship. Why does everything with boost get to do freebie 45 degree turns?

Because it's fun to have some ships in the game where your skill of actually planning maneuvers is important. The game is designed to play like a dog fight after all, so some ships are going to be able to out-fly other ships, especially if they have low firepower AND and low hitpoints. Autothrusters only got put into the game because too many ships had 360 deg arcs and they were completely defeating the ethos of a small, highly maneuverable fighter's ability to get behind a slower ship to shoot it and not be shot at.

You're basically asking "Why can arc dodgers dodge arcs?" Because if they couldn't, no one would play them and it would be boring tank battles all the time. Stop complaining that a ship that you can kill in one attack given a bad roll on their part can fly circles around your ship.

Autothrusters are fine as is, and the boost ability is fine just the way it is. Why? Because boosting actually costs a lot given that you can't focus or evade. So for boost to be even remotely worth using, you have to be able to get out of someone's arc which means banking most of the time.

You're wrong on all counts.

1.) Seeing where everything has moved and then boosting and barrel rolling is not planning and it does not take skill. You're not predicting anything.

2.) Acewings do not have low firepower. You have Palpatine and Soontir's freebie focus and the Inquisitor's TL + Focus.

3.) Acewings do not have low hit points. The ability to convert blank blank focus into 4 evade results is not low hit points.

4.) You cannot kill an Acewing in one shot with one bad roll on their part. With a 3 hit attack, you have a 48% of doing nothing to a Soontir with a naked 4 agility dice roll and Palpatine. IF you get 3 hits.

5.) Boosting actually costs alot because you can't focus or evade? Go be unaware of Soontir's pilot ability and push the limit some place else.

6.) That's why barrel roll is an awful action, because you can only go straight with it and not bank, right?

Palp Aces players are some of the greediest players in this game, I swear. They actually believe that boosting and barrel rolling after you've seen where everything has moved is prediction or skill based. Considering they're all former pre-nerf phantom players it's no surprise.

I DO think Autothrusters should have cost 3 pts, at a minimum. It has always felt just a little to cheap for what you get.

At the same time, a 36 pt Soontir and an Aggressor with 1pt less of upgrades would not be in a much worse spot than it is now. Soontir would only miss out on his Initiative bid. Inquisitor would be the same, barely losing anything. You just wouldn't run him at if you couldn't fit 32 pts in your list. Aggressor might have to forego its illicit upgrade.

It would honestly only be the low PS Autothrusters carriers that would be hurt by it costing 3 pts. 5 x A Wings + Autothrusters would get 5 less pts to work with. Triple A Wing lists might have to forgo Proton Rockets on one ship. Low PS TAPs would be even less threatening than they seem to be so far.

I still think that AT cost too few points, but it's a shame that lower PS ships that want to run it would be far more hurt by it changing than the higher PS ships.

That's the problem. All the stuff it's overpowered on is not phased by a one point increase. Same with VI.

Bank boost needs to be made red in order to curb Acewing. It doesn't really matter how many points a ship costs when it's invincible, nerfing how it actually plays on the table is a better way of fixing the problem. Imagine that instead of nerfing decloak, FFG just errated ACD to cost 8 points instead of 4. Would that have accomplished anything? No.

Make bank boost red. Bank barrel roll is red and limited to one ship, bank decloak is limited to one ship. Why does everything with boost get to do freebie 45 degree turns?

Because it's fun to have some ships in the game where your skill of actually planning maneuvers is important. The game is designed to play like a dog fight after all, so some ships are going to be able to out-fly other ships, especially if they have low firepower AND and low hitpoints. Autothrusters only got put into the game because too many ships had 360 deg arcs and they were completely defeating the ethos of a small, highly maneuverable fighter's ability to get behind a slower ship to shoot it and not be shot at.

You're basically asking "Why can arc dodgers dodge arcs?" Because if they couldn't, no one would play them and it would be boring tank battles all the time. Stop complaining that a ship that you can kill in one attack given a bad roll on their part can fly circles around your ship.

Autothrusters are fine as is, and the boost ability is fine just the way it is. Why? Because boosting actually costs a lot given that you can't focus or evade. So for boost to be even remotely worth using, you have to be able to get out of someone's arc which means banking most of the time.

You're wrong on all counts.

1.) Seeing where everything has moved and then boosting and barrel rolling is not planning and it does not take skill. You're not predicting anything.

2.) Acewings do not have low firepower. You have Palpatine and Soontir's freebie focus and the Inquisitor's TL + Focus.

3.) Acewings do not have low hit points. The ability to convert blank blank focus into 4 evade results is not low hit points.

4.) You cannot kill an Acewing in one shot with one bad roll on their part. With a 3 hit attack, you have a 48% of doing nothing to a Soontir with a naked 4 agility dice roll and Palpatine. IF you get 3 hits.

5.) Boosting actually costs alot because you can't focus or evade? Go be unaware of Soontir's pilot ability and push the limit some place else.

6.) That's why barrel roll is an awful action, because you can only go straight with it and not bank, right?

Palp Aces players are some of the greediest players in this game, I swear. They actually believe that boosting and barrel rolling after you've seen where everything has moved is prediction or skill based. Considering they're all former pre-nerf phantom players it's no surprise.

1) boosting and barrel rolling do take skill.

You have to set your dial correctly, and from my experience flying fel, you want to think at least 2 turns ahead if not 3

If two turns later your going to have a rock on one side, ship on another and something ugly in front of you, you may have just lost the game.

Another example. My buddy won a store championship using fel.

His hardest game was against a feedback array squad fielding two autoblaster turrets.

He managed to fly right through his squad and out of that range one zone.

That requires skill, and careful planning, while also doing so under time constraints.

2) yes and no. Acewings don't have low firepower to say because the ships all have 3 attack or 4 if using whisper, but it's only two ships.

If your not focus firing enough your not killing your opponent fast enough, giving him the chance to capitalize on any mistakes you may make it the meantime. Or maybe your shuttle will be dead before you did any real dmg

3) regardless of the emperor being on the board, aces such as Fel and the inquisitor only have 3/4 hp.

If fel gets two bad rolls in a row at range 2 the emperor is not going to save him.

Or if he is blocked and multiple ships get shots, not good

Or once the emperor is dead.

Or kanan with Ghost title and Autoblaster turrets.

Having low hp will not change just because a ship can evade well.

If it couldn't evade well, why even bother using it?

With the duel aggressors with HLC, fat dash again HLC, ordnance w/ 4 dice, fat Han with veteran Instincts and gunner etc I can go on, they need something to survive

4) well It's about time. With so many turrets floating around (especially now) they need something to stay alive

One thing my friends and I never liked was turrets can fly straight. If I can shoot you, you can shoot me. It takes away a lot if what we enjoyed to begin with out of it. Outmaneuvering your opponent

5) Soontir is a special case. He's one out of how many?

Aggressors can boost but still get target locks.

Now what about mindlink?

Can still boost, get a free evade and focus from his buddy.

And if Soontir is boosting and barrel rolling, then he only has 1 defense token. This is where you have to catch him.

I agree I hate flying against him at tines, but I see why it is what it is. I blame pwt honestly.

I can say the exact same thing about the fat dash and Han players.

They are a lazy greedy bunch who dont want to put any effort into thinking about where to move

I'll fly straight.

If you ask me, it still takes a lot more skill to fly a ace squad than a pwt.

If you hit a rock or bump your ship is not going to die

Fel still can if two ships have good shots on him

1 crit is all it would take actually. Major explosion, roll Another crit and get direct hit.

Don't think that'll happen to Han or dash

I think you should choose words more carefully before you decide ace players are greedy.

As I pointed out you can say the same thing for turret/uBoats players

Anyway, don't take offense to anything I just said, just pointing out that it's not just Acewings that put us where we are today.

I blame the pwt

I'd like to point out that I NEVER play Palp because I think he's broken and stupid. So retool your argument from there....

Bank boost needs to be made red in order to curb Acewing. It doesn't really matter how many points a ship costs when it's invincible, nerfing how it actually plays on the table is a better way of fixing the problem. Imagine that instead of nerfing decloak, FFG just errated ACD to cost 8 points instead of 4. Would that have accomplished anything? No.

?!?!?!NERF?!?!?!? "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" -Luke