Speed control and proper movement account for my success with DtO. When those fail, I fail.

I realize you enjoy plugging Dodonna the Oppressor, but you have to realize this is a stretch.

"Ah yes, my fleets that win tournaments also use the maneuver tool when they move! Let me tell you all about them!"

*Fist bump*

If you guys are going to disrespect me over my feelings and opinions on my list, why don't you put the list on the table and try it out. If you cant do that much then keep quiet. You can't understand something that you have never done.

Speed control and proper movement account for my success with DtO. When those fail, I fail.

I realize you enjoy plugging Dodonna the Oppressor, but you have to realize this is a stretch.

"Ah yes, my fleets that win tournaments also use the maneuver tool when they move! Let me tell you all about them!"

*Fist bump*

If you guys are going to disrespect me over my feelings and opinions on my list, why don't you put the list on the table and try it out. If you cant do that much then keep quiet. You can't understand something that you have never done.

Lyr,

I think your list is great. I really love swarm lists myself and have been very successful with them at past tournaments. Dodonuts™ (WuFame 2016) is also one of my favorite commanders.

You just name drop the list a hilarious amount of times, like you're going for some kind of brand recognition. It could just be that you have an overbearing presence on the forums and so I notice it more.

Edit: To clarify, you're completely correct about positioning in swarm lists, especially ones that rely on keeping a specific range. Navigates all day, bro. The ribbing (which is good natured) is just on how much you namedrop DtO, not on the merits of the list itself.

Speed control and proper movement account for my success with DtO. When those fail, I fail.

I realize you enjoy plugging Dodonna the Oppressor, but you have to realize this is a stretch.

"Ah yes, my fleets that win tournaments also use the maneuver tool when they move! Let me tell you all about them!"

*Fist bump*

If you guys are going to disrespect me over my feelings and opinions on my list, why don't you put the list on the table and try it out. If you cant do that much then keep quiet. You can't understand something that you have never done.

Lyr,

I think your list is great. I really love swarm lists myself and have been very successful with them at past tournaments. Dodonuts is also one of my faovirte commanders.

You just name drop the list a hilarious amount of times, like you're going for some kind of brand recognition. It could just be that you have an overbearing presence on the forums and so I notice it more.

I name drop because it gives people a point of reference. I can say any old list or I can just say I did it would not give people somewhere to look at the list and answer why. I do this with all my lists, from Vader Duet, and beyond.

Fair enough point, but I'm reserving the right to troll you a bit because of it.

Edit: Just like I troll Dras for his excessive use of

paragraph breaks and Random Capitalization and italicizing of words

Indeed. It is the reason that I have immensely cut back my assistance on the forums. To know that you are a joke to someone is a wonderful, wonderful thing indeed.

Ah Dras, you're so much more than a joke to me.

:wub:

Indeed. It is the reason that I have immensely cut back my assistance on the forums. To know that you are a joke to someone is a wonderful, wonderful thing indeed.

It is how I feel a lot of the time

Well at this rate, maybe I'll catch up on that 7000 posts thing.

Well at this rate, maybe I'll catch up on that 7000 posts thing.

Post some good questions and have a non trolling opinion and you may get there someday

Drats, that's just out of my capability. Oh well.

A small ship can make a 0 1 0 maneuver from either side of their base. They won't overlap the maneuver tool because their base is exactly the length of a maneuver tool joint.

It is amazing to use btw. You actually get a different end point which can help one fit into some amazingly tight spaces.

so there is ambiguity with this maneuver. Note that the do not overlap maneuver tool rule does not stop this maneuver from having two possible sets of positions. So why should it stop all the rest of the maneuvers just because they overlap the tool?

btw. im nitpicking at rules, not u. no offenses, i just want to discuss this. fire away

Wait, where do you overlap oh with a small ship? Show me at the end of that move WHERE you overlap. Do that and I concede you are right.

ok lemme vassal it later. at work now.

ok my bad, I think I used a wrong expression. I do not mean ambiguity

what I mean is that a 0 1 0 maneuver is possible for small ships using either side. It is not affected by the overlap tool rule. Hence one can notch the tool to either side of the ship and have more options for movement at this maneuver, unlike other maneuvers

I am actually wondering why this is allowed as an exception. if ffg wants to reduce the possible movements for ships then it would also make sense to restrict this exception too? (with another rule or something)

otherwise if i set the final segment of my maneuver tool straight(that is, yaw at the end equals 0) when maneuvering I actually increase the number of possible positions I could end up in by allowing myself to use either side of the ship base in tool placement

It's a tighter turn. It doesn't make sense that a smaller ship would be capable of making a more agile maneuver than a larger ship?

It really is not more of a tighter turn as it is a more a captain using his/her smaller ship's need for less counter thrust to get into better positions.

When you have the last yaw at 0 you lose turn rate bit you gain unique positioning

It really is not more of a tighter turn as it is a more a captain using his/her smaller ship's need for less counter thrust to get into better positions.

When you have the last yaw at 0 you lose turn rate bit you gain unique positioning

Got ya. The movement rules don't seem complicated in any way nor does it seem to lack game play sense at all was where I was going with that.

All fleets require good movement and maneuvering.

People who move their ships, exposing them to the least amount of incoming fire / or exposing them to hazards, win more games, it is pretty elementary.

Correct. It is elementary, yet even while doing so, there are many builds and such that mitigate movement by just decreasing the amount of fire that can be thrown at you (i.e, destroying things, tractor beams, etc). Movement mitigation will become even more relevant once you have the Interdictor.

Still, having a thorough understanding of how to maneuver makes DtO work. Though I learned the skills needed from piloting VSD's, ISD's, and Nebulon's which require more finesse than most other ships.

All ships need finesse and understanding to get the absolute best out of them, but you keep on tooting your horn from your soapbox. The rest of us peons will just accept that we don't know how to play properly.

Hey now! There is only 1 person that can Troll Lyraeus, Thats me.... ..

Things be changing once wave 3-4 come out. Changing a lot. People may have mastered the art of movement now. I cant wait to see the carnage unfold.

Naboobo2000

All fleets require good movement and maneuvering.

People who move their ships, exposing them to the least amount of incoming fire / or exposing them to hazards, win more games, it is pretty elementary.

Correct. It is elementary, yet even while doing so, there are many builds and such that mitigate movement by just decreasing the amount of fire that can be thrown at you (i.e, destroying things, tractor beams, etc). Movement mitigation will become even more relevant once you have the Interdictor.

Still, having a thorough understanding of how to maneuver makes DtO work. Though I learned the skills needed from piloting VSD's, ISD's, and Nebulon's which require more finesse than most other ships.

All ships need finesse and understanding to get the absolute best out of them, but you keep on tooting your horn from your soapbox. The rest of us peons will just accept that we don't know how to play properly.

Sure they do. Each with their own variation. This is why the VSD is one of the most difficult to master.

Play my list and do well with it before you try and troll me. My list not your version. Take a look at my last game on Vassal between Ginkapo and myself. That is DtO W3. Watch the tight maneuvers and the wierd way I activate. Play like that a dozen games and let's see if you change your tune a bit. Till then you can be a peon

Hey now! There is only 1 person that can Troll Lyraeus, Thats me.... ..

Things be changing once wave 3-4 come out. Changing a lot. People may have mastered the art of movement now. I cant wait to see the carnage unfold.

Naboobo2000

You wait till the Wave 3.. . I will gety revenge.

This is a really good thread. Thanks to all the participants. I learned something I wasn't aware of about maneuvering. Now, I'm going to have to experiment.

I know this is off topic but since I updated to the latest Vassal I can't tell what the keyboard shortcuts are for Range Ruler or Distance Bands. Can anyone help?

I know this is off topic but since I updated to the latest Vassal I can't tell what the keyboard shortcuts are for Range Ruler or Distance Bands. Can anyone help?

Ctrl Space

Shift Space

Thanks

All fleets require good movement and maneuvering.

People who move their ships, exposing them to the least amount of incoming fire / or exposing them to hazards, win more games, it is pretty elementary.

Correct. It is elementary, yet even while doing so, there are many builds and such that mitigate movement by just decreasing the amount of fire that can be thrown at you (i.e, destroying things, tractor beams, etc). Movement mitigation will become even more relevant once you have the Interdictor.

Still, having a thorough understanding of how to maneuver makes DtO work. Though I learned the skills needed from piloting VSD's, ISD's, and Nebulon's which require more finesse than most other ships.

All ships need finesse and understanding to get the absolute best out of them, but you keep on tooting your horn from your soapbox. The rest of us peons will just accept that we don't know how to play properly.

Sure they do. Each with their own variation. This is why the VSD is one of the most difficult to master.

Play my list and do well with it before you try and troll me. My list not your version. Take a look at my last game on Vassal between Ginkapo and myself. That is DtO W3. Watch the tight maneuvers and the wierd way I activate. Play like that a dozen games and let's see if you change your tune a bit. Till then you can be a peon

You made an errant statement, and a nonsensical one, All ships need understanding of not only how they maneuver, but how your opponents ships can also maneuver, this is an elementary part of the game, it is basic, the better you can understand it, the better your games will go. It has nothing to do with your fleet design, period.

If you had said, once I had mastered maneuvering high speed, mobile ships, I was able to design a fleet to truly capitalize upon it, and it is powerful and hard to beat when played well, there is nothing to say in response, you see the difference? but even then you aren't the only person to do so, and we all have out favorite fleets to take advantage of such a play style.

Some how me telling you this, means I am trolling you? OK.

And I was teasing you, but if you wish to turn this into outright enmity, feel free.

Sure it is a basic thing. Sadly as this thread has shown, even the experience ld players did not know.

As in most all things, the basics are vital to know. If you don't have the basics mastered then it can undermine all the other techniques you learn.

I get teased a lot and trolled. I don't know the difference really so to me it's all trolling. It's part of the aspergers mixed with the Internet.