I am an avid X-Wing fan and I wanted to start playing Armada as my gaming group is taking a little time off for about a month. I planned on purchasing the Core as a few of the people I game with also have Armada. They are planning on bringing it in and show the mechanics and game-play, and I figured what the hell, I'll give it a shot. I purchased a core yesterday and I wasn't impressed with it at all.

When you first look at a miniatures game, the thing that first catches your eye is obviously the minis themselves. A bit disappointed to say the least. My SD had a broken antenna; OK superglue will fix that. Paint job pretty good on this, but the blue for the exhaust was a bit haphazard.

The Nebulon engine compartment to me is a bit lighter in white than the front half of the ship. Don't know if this is the color scheme or what. I prefer my ship to match and be aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

The Corvette; Well that is the worse. The mold lines down the axis of the ship are a little too obvious and also where the exhaust attaches to the engines. The red striping looks like someone didn't have enough paint on the brush and the wash was a bit over done on it.

I know I can touch these items up a bit. (I do have SOME painting skills), But for the price of the Core, I would have thought there would be better attention to the models, as this is what would make or break a newbie into buying more of Armada and recruit them in the game.

Other than the models, everything else was up the usual FFG standards. No problems with the TIEs or X-Wings. Everything put together beautifully and no issues cropped up afterwards.

I will be joining the ranks of Armada as I do enjoy the change of pace from X-Wing, but by shelling out close to 100 dollars on this game, I did think the models would have been a little better.

Personally, I find "No problems with the TIEs or X-Wings" to be the unbelievable part of your statement


The Core Sets are very.... Mismatched.

Some times, the Ships are wonderful, and the Fighters are Rot. Horrid, horrid mold lines across the back-half of the wings and fuselage and mold misalignments... TIE fighter wings that are bent, and in some cases snapped...

BUT.

That was the Core Set.

Generally Speaking, everything in the Expansions - even the Repeated stuff - is another step up. Mold lines on fighters are much reduced... (I should see if I can put a Core Set X-Wing next to a Fighter pack X-Wing to show)... And generally, things are overall better.

The VSD is notorious for broken antennae - and FFG replaces models most of the time, believe it or not. But that's really the only model that has those fragile bits to lose... The Neb has its antennae, but they're not quite as flimsy. The ISD lacks them completely, of course.

I guess, in short, is Don't judge the book by its introductory passage - get into the meat of it - and, if at the end, you really don't like it.... Pass it on to someone else to try, you never know

You will see a marked improvement in model quality and paint jobs. for the CR90s and Nebs, I definitely had to do a light wash to enjoy how the model looks. The MC30, MC80, Raider, and ISD all look fantastic. I repainted most of mine, but that was only due to personal taste instead of necessity.

I own 4 VSD, and not a single antenna survived a month or two of play, even with careful transportation.

That said, I am sorry that you didn't have a positive experience. For me, taking the models out elicited the exact opposite reaction, I was incredibly happy with the quality of models, especially given the scale in which they were being represented. Maybe I got a better than average batch, maybe you got a worse than average batch, but end of the day I would consider a return if it bugs you. There are better core sets out there evidently.

The actual expansion models get way better. Just cut to the chase and get an Imperial Star Destroyer and the MC80. They are beautiful models! I have repainted my ISD's but that is for personal taste.

As I recall a lot of the original core sets for the game weren't too amazing in terms of paint jobs, my own included, so it is possible that you got a very early one or just not great model luck. I'm just happy it wasn't enough to dissuade you from still playing. :3

Had no issues with my core set, and if anything I think it's great value for money for everything they cram into the box, more so now most places sell it at £55 pounds... yes pointy bits get broken but that's the same for most things that have pointy bit my dark eldar army was forever a nightmare.....

Man... 55GPB would be 104 CAD...

My Local's fluctuating between 135-140 CAD at the moment

I hate exchange rates...

... almost as much as I hate Chess clocks...

But that's... like... 2 other posts and not here

You complain about the core set in Armada. Well, remember, that was the first thing released. Things got VERY MUCH better. For a comparison, look at the X wing from Core 1.0 vs 2.0. See how much better that got? Same thing.

Thanks for the words guys.My LGS has just about every one in stock now. I did gaze at some of hem a week back before I bought my Core, and they indeed looked pretty good. It made my decision to go Armada!

My X's and TIEs were pretty much perfect. 1 or 2 TIEs had a slight warp in 1 wing, but you couldn't even tell when assembled as squadrons.

And yes, I will be playing because I do like the game so far and the models themselves are pretty nice to see on the board.

I totally hear you on the core set quality: my CR90 was beautiful, my VSD to this day had the best OOB paint job of all my armada minis, but my Neb-B was a hot mess of crappiness- it was twisted along the long axis, bent along the pitch axis, and the wash was non-uniform. There was a fat ugly mold line running down the spine of the whole ship and the rear fins weren't seated properly on the mini.

I squished it back to shape with some hot water, then cleaned the mold lines off with a fresh x-acto blade. Then I cut off the antennae and replaced them with bits of brass and steel rod. Then I drilled out the main gun and put in a blunt syringe tip for a gun barrel. Then I added some more guns. Then I painted it. And then simple green/repainted it 3 or 4 more times. Then I bought an airbrush and painted it again.

Man, if that neb-b weren't so crappy, I would have never gone on my repainting spree... I guess in that sense it was helpful?

One advantage to buying at the FLGS: you can peek at the paint job. Reminds me of hunting down the best paint apps on star wars figures as a kid...

Not impressed eh?

Troll on over to shapeways and get the mad swag brah....and your buddies will be envious.

I recommend every new player to get a Gladiator and Assault Frigate Mk2 when starting out. Both bring good things to the table. Hell I even would add a raider to that recommendation too at this point.

Not impressed eh?

Troll on over to shapeways and get the mad swag brah....and your buddies will be envious.

1 million quatloos for this ship!!!!

E-mail me if you want a pizza roll.

E-mail me if you want a pizza roll.

I might!

my problem is the faction balance. I am a very factionalised player-I enjoy picking one and only one faction in each wargame/cardgame, for both fluff and financial reasons, so balance is important to me.

-starting from admirals, for small ships we can compare screed's ACMs/APTs to ackbar's broadsides (i.e. raiders/gladiators for screed, TRC90s for ackbar), but aside from that, the rebels have no Motti to help when bringing fleets with large ships. and no, garm bel iblis' tokens isn't a "viable alternative" when your whales have 6 hull and enemy VSDs have 10 hull/ISDs 14 hull.

-while balance in small ships is OK, in medium ships the Assault Frigate is superior to VSDs in everything but carrier role, and in large ships the mc80 is just so terribad. no gunnery team slot, so slow, etc. just worthless.

-in squadrons, the imperials reign supreme: for few points, you can field a simple tie swarm/interceptor swarm with flight controllers on your ships, OR you can build a rhymer/dengar ball. by contrast, the rebels can build a jan ors ball-which is "rhymerball with equal points but severely reduced threat range". the difference is small, but it pains me because there is no unique trick for rebel squadrons other than yavaris (and that's so hard to pull off plus it requires a specific uberfragile ship). so whenever one wants to play a squadron list and builds rebels, he just feels dumb for not making the same thing with imperials.

-the ship/squadron titles are grossly imbalanced: the rebels have, at best, yavaris, admonition, and home 1 for some "merely good" good bonuses, and jan ors for an actual great gamechanging upgrade, and the imps have rhymer, dengar, demolisher-THREE gamechanging, assymetrical-balance upgrades.

-in wave 3, rhymerballs will start rerolling all those black dice. you can do the same with rebels-just, you will have worse bombing threat range with nothing real good to compensate. of course,the rebels can just build some antisquadron and use torryn far, essentialy PAYING to get the swarm upgrade that similar imps get almost for free.

the only light at the end of the tunnel is flotillas blocking demolisher. at least that'll help.

the difference will be bigger with wave 4-the liberty is a conventional ship, that just adds number of dice/hull, whereas the interdictor will add even more REAL SPECIAL ABILITIES to imperials(special abilities/shenanigans>numerical upgrades). the catchup needed will be huge for rebels then.

for the past month, I have been thinking of selling my models-I have decided that even if I continue armada, I should do so as imperial. please understand; I am ranting, but at least I am trying to make a coherent post/show actual arguments/hopefuly add feedback/constructive criticism. this isn't just some "cheese/nerf plz" post.

my problem is the faction balance. I am a very factionalised player-I enjoy picking one and only one faction in each wargame/cardgame, for both fluff and financial reasons, so balance is important to me.

-starting from admirals, for small ships we can compare screed's ACMs/APTs to ackbar's broadsides (i.e. raiders/gladiators for screed, TRC90s for ackbar), but aside from that, the rebels have no Motti to help when bringing fleets with large ships. and no, garm bel iblis' tokens isn't a "viable alternative" when your whales have 6 hull and enemy VSDs have 10 hull/ISDs 14 hull.

-while balance in small ships is OK, in medium ships the Assault Frigate is superior to VSDs in everything but carrier role, and in large ships the mc80 is just so terribad. no gunnery team slot, so slow, etc. just worthless.

-in squadrons, the imperials reign supreme: for few points, you can field a simple tie swarm/interceptor swarm with flight controllers on your ships, OR you can build a rhymer/dengar ball. by contrast, the rebels can build a jan ors ball-which is "rhymerball with equal points but severely reduced threat range". the difference is small, but it pains me because there is no unique trick for rebel squadrons other than yavaris (and that's so hard to pull off plus it requires a specific uberfragile ship). so whenever one wants to play a squadron list and builds rebels, he just feels dumb for not making the same thing with imperials.

-the ship/squadron titles are grossly imbalanced: the rebels have, at best, yavaris, admonition, and home 1 for some "merely good" good bonuses, and jan ors for an actual great gamechanging upgrade, and the imps have rhymer, dengar, demolisher-THREE gamechanging, assymetrical-balance upgrades. the difference will be more with wave 4-the liberty is a conventional ship, that just adds number of dice/hull, whereas the interdictor will add even more REAL SPECIAL ABILITIES to imperials.

for the past month, I have been thinking of selling my models-I have decided that even if I continue armada, I should do so as imperial. please understand; I am ranting, but at least I am trying to make a coherent post/show actual arguments.

Wow! I am not sure how to go about saying this. . . Well I guess a bull in a China shop will have to do!

Change your attitude over it all. Not in a bad way but think on it more.

You say he MC80 is terribad? I disagree, there are no bad ships in this game. Everything has a use and if you think of things from an X-Wing standpoint you will miss most everything!

Nebulon-B's are not fragile, yes they die but most people are not using them to the fullest. It pains me really, to hear people state the Nebulon-B is a "fragile ship", once again being blunt here, but go get some experience in and readjust your attitude and play style. It helps a lot.

Go Imperial. I don't care, I play both, beat both and lose. To both. Each faction has its ups and downs but there is nothing bad in this game. Anyone who says so is keeping their mind closed and is not properly testing and working things out.

This is not X-Wing.

Let's me say that aging.

This, is not, X-Wing.

In X-Wing, you can get a ship and relatively know how it will fly. You will fly it X way and do Y thing. In Armada, that does not work! Every list will require a different style of flying, every list you fly against will have different considerations. You can EASILY get rattled in Armada and that will mess your plan up fast. In Armada a single mistake can literally cost you the game.

Armada is a brutal game that way. It is harsh and exciting and brings the very best out of those who try to learn all the aspects.

Oh, one last thing. You speak about game changimg abilities. Hmmm the Rebels do lack that in some regards. Well, there are some nice ones out there. Han and Luke are a thing. Rieekan who is our anti Motti, Mothma, Dodonna (Doo~Donna, Doo~Donna) and maybe a few more that I am too tired to think about. You want to know why the Rebels likely have less game changers? They don't need it as much. They have fast, consistent ships that can take shots, have great use and get the job done without he need for a game changer. That is how he Rebels operate.

Lyraeus, believe it or not you are one of the people I admire in this forum (along with shmitty, biggs and truthiness, no offense to the rest posters). so thanks for your reply.

to be honest I do win more games than I lose here, but it feels hollow as they don't exactly use full rhymerball/DEMSU lists or anything. I just don't feel I could win against such lists. the regionals in my country are coming and tbh I think I could even win by... not facing any truly optimized lists. idk, on one side I feel strange about regionals' results, on the other i'm just at a loss on what to do/have a bad feeling about the future of the game's meta. despite loving wave 3 at first.

my problem is the faction balance. I am a very factionalised player-I enjoy picking one and only one faction in each wargame/cardgame, for both fluff and financial reasons, so balance is important to me.

-starting from admirals, for small ships we can compare screed's ACMs/APTs to ackbar's broadsides (i.e. raiders/gladiators for screed, TRC90s for ackbar), but aside from that, the rebels have no Motti to help when bringing fleets with large ships. and no, garm bel iblis' tokens isn't a "viable alternative" when your whales have 6 hull and enemy VSDs have 10 hull/ISDs 14 hull.

-while balance in small ships is OK, in medium ships the Assault Frigate is superior to VSDs in everything but carrier role, and in large ships the mc80 is just so terribad. no gunnery team slot, so slow, etc. just worthless.

-in squadrons, the imperials reign supreme: for few points, you can field a simple tie swarm/interceptor swarm with flight controllers on your ships, OR you can build a rhymer/dengar ball. by contrast, the rebels can build a jan ors ball-which is "rhymerball with equal points but severely reduced threat range". the difference is small, but it pains me because there is no unique trick for rebel squadrons other than yavaris (and that's so hard to pull off plus it requires a specific uberfragile ship). so whenever one wants to play a squadron list and builds rebels, he just feels dumb for not making the same thing with imperials.

-the ship/squadron titles are grossly imbalanced: the rebels have, at best, yavaris, admonition, and home 1 for some "merely good" good bonuses, and jan ors for an actual great gamechanging upgrade, and the imps have rhymer, dengar, demolisher-THREE gamechanging, assymetrical-balance upgrades.

-in wave 3, rhymerballs will start rerolling all those black dice. you can do the same with rebels-just, you will have worse bombing threat range with nothing real good to compensate. of course,the rebels can just build some antisquadron and use torryn far, essentialy PAYING to get the swarm upgrade that similar imps get almost for free.

the only light at the end of the tunnel is flotillas blocking demolisher. at least that'll help.

the difference will be bigger with wave 4-the liberty is a conventional ship, that just adds number of dice/hull, whereas the interdictor will add even more REAL SPECIAL ABILITIES to imperials(special abilities/shenanigans>numerical upgrades). the catchup needed will be huge for rebels then.

for the past month, I have been thinking of selling my models-I have decided that even if I continue armada, I should do so as imperial. please understand; I am ranting, but at least I am trying to make a coherent post/show actual arguments/hopefuly add feedback/constructive criticism. this isn't just some "cheese/nerf plz" post.

I think you may want to try Rebels a bit longer. I have played with rebels since I started and it takes longer to get good with them as they aren't as straight forward, but once you do it's great.

I try not to make assumptions, so I will say a bad objective can put you at a severe disadvantage. Finding the right missions for your list and building for it is key.

A lot of folks feel that Rebel squadrons are better, outside maybe the Firespray. Sure, the named Imp guys are great, but Dutch and Wedge are amazing. As are Luke and Tycho. Rhymer is great, too, but not unstoppable. The TIE interceptor and fighter characters are also good but very fragile.

Admonition is really strong as well. Just making sure, but you know you can spend and discard the same token, right? I think Jaina's Light is the best two point title in the game. Defiance is also pretty sweet, and Gallant Haven can ruin Rhymerballs.

If you want to try a more straightforward Rebel list, try going with Rieekan and whatever ships you like. If you are having Demolisher woes then Rieekan mitigates that some. Other things you can do are bid for first player or increase activations.

Slicer tools and tractor beams on a flotilla are definitely going to put Demolisher on a leash. And if you don't think the Liberty will be a game changer for Rebels, try an ISD out, cause that's what that ship will be for Rebels.

I find the game very balanced and less about luck, which appeals to me. The best way to get used to what works and what doesn't is to play the game. I lost my first 20 games to my friend playing the Gencon special in Wave 1. Now it is a very different story. As a player base, my local group learned together and got better together, and have a blast doing so. I hope you stick with it.

-gallant haven doesn't work against rhymerball; they just keep shooting your ships ,certain about outdamaging you , and your squadrons must engage them=more often than not, leaving the zone.

-I am not saying rhymerball is unstoppable; just, whats the difference between" mass rebel bombers/escorts + jan ors" and "mass imp bombers/escorts, dengar, rhymer"? none other than the threat range. like, "you can do the same, just it wont be as good and you have zero other bombing run shenanigans". a big part of that is luke and havoc being mostly "solo hero bombers", underperforming in a true massive bombingrun role that Intel pushes for.

-the liberty wont be a rebel ISD. it lacks ECM(crucial) and a contain, and some flank dice;plus strong suggestions on why its most likely speed 2 (important). its mostly a "VSD with two braces and worse squadron game". we'll know how good or bad it'll be when we see its points cost, but it cant be as meta-impactful as a whole new set of imps upgrades.

Lyraeus, believe it or not you are one of the people I admire in this forum (along with shmitty, biggs and truthiness, no offense to the rest posters). so thanks for your reply.

to be honest I do win more games than I lose here, but it feels hollow as they don't exactly use full rhymerball/DEMSU lists or anything. I just don't feel I could win against such lists. the regionals in my country are coming and tbh I think I could even win by... not facing any truly optimized lists. idk, on one side I feel strange about regionals' results, on the other i'm just at a loss on what to do/have a bad feeling about the future of the game's meta. despite loving wave 3 at first.

I have never faced a real DeMSU list but I think I can take it. In fact I have a Vassal game Monday against CNinja and he is using DeMSU. I am worried I will lose but so what? I am going to have fun and try everything I possibly can.

With rebels you need to learn speed control. I did this by running dual ISD's and learning not to rush with them but to time their turns and use the Nav Command to the fullest. It takes a lot to do but it can be done.

Personally, I think the Imperials have the flimsy ships. They can't take as much punishment as one would think and they do have a limitation in heir upgrades. They need the abilities they get because it makes up for their overall lack of defensive capabilities.

-gallant haven doesn't work against rhymerball; they just keep shooting your ships ,certain about outdamaging you , and your squadrons must engage them=more often than not, leaving the zone.

-I am not saying rhymerball is unstoppable; just, whats the difference between" mass rebel bombers/escorts + jan ors" and "mass imp bombers/escorts, dengar, rhymer"? none other than the threat range. like, "you can do the same, just it wont be as good and you have zero other bombing run shenanigans". a big part of that is luke and havoc being mostly "solo hero bombers", underperforming in a true massive bombingrun role that Intel pushes for.

-the liberty wont be a rebel ISD. it lacks ECM(crucial) and a contain, and some flank dice;plus strong suggestions on why its most likely speed 2 (important). its mostly a "VSD with two braces and worse squadron game". we'll know how good or bad it'll be when we see its points cost, but it cant be as meta-impactful as a whole new set of imps upgrades.

I recommend distancing yourself from looking at each ship as a counterpart to the other faction. It is not meant to work that way.

The Liberty is not a Rebel ISD. It is however, a Rebel Battle Cruiser that will support the Nebulon-B with heavy firepower and allow for a refreshing change to rebel tactical doctrine (read: Toilet Bowl)

The Rhymerball is easy to deal with. Use your anti-squadron attacks as you can and be flexible. It is not always about taking out their squadrons. A few YT-1300's and Jan can actually hold down a Rhymerball for the few turns you need. I know it sounds silly but the YT-1300 has counter which each bomber shooting at it will have to get through. Add on that the best the TIE bomber will with Flight Controllers is 1.25 damage on average and you will be fine. Don't use up Jan's tokens too fast and you will be good. Oh speed, Yes the 1300's are "slow" but in all honesty, if the Imperials are going to oblige you and come to you, do you really need to be fast?

Lyraeus, believe it or not you are one of the people I admire in this forum (along with shmitty, biggs and truthiness, no offense to the rest posters). so thanks for your reply.

to be honest I do win more games than I lose here, but it feels hollow as they don't exactly use full rhymerball/DEMSU lists or anything. I just don't feel I could win against such lists. the regionals in my country are coming and tbh I think I could even win by... not facing any truly optimized lists. idk, on one side I feel strange about regionals' results, on the other i'm just at a loss on what to do/have a bad feeling about the future of the game's meta. despite loving wave 3 at first.

I too find the sides relatively well balanced, just asymmetrical. Rebels are better at dance and snipe, while Imps slam into your face. With that given, you're not going to find a one-for-one comparison to give a balanced result.

Similarly for squadrons, their synergies work differently. Imperials will win out in a squadron analysis based purely on stats...because that's the way they work. Rebel squadrons are individually strong, but their synergies exist with their carriers, not with each other. Yavaris and Independence have no imperial equivalents.

It's been said before but Rebel squadrons are all-rounders, whereas Imperials are single purpose builds. A properly constructed Rebel squadron build is going to be able to take on a greater variety of enemy builds than an imperial one - and that counts when you're playing against 3-5 different builds at a tournament. Sure Howl/Dengar/Interceptors put out the most anti squadron dice. Have you seen them try to take on a list with some decent Antinsquadron fire? Dead within 2 turns - all of them. Especially so if the enemy has Ruthless Strategists. The Rebel Antisquadron buld has endurance, effectiveness, and flexibility - yesterday my Wedge, Dutch, and Yavaris took out Howl & two Interceptors with no losses, and then went on to score points off the Superior Positions objective.

X-wing swarms will be huge in wave 3 with BCC and Toryn Farr. HUGE.

As you say there's no Rebel equivalent to the Rhymerball. So what? I find Rebels winning the squadron battles in my area more often than not, and online. They don't need a Rhymer. They have Yavaris for extra damage shenanigans. Find it difficult to use? Maybe that build isn't your style. It's certainly possible to be used effectively.

You say the list of viable Rebel titles is small. You left Salvation, Jaina's Light, Tantive IV, and Foresight off the list. All good titles I see on the tabletop quite a bit. Now can you name Imperial titles that meet the same criteria? Demolisher (the most powerful card in the game, yes), maybe Avenger, Dominator, and maybe Relentless. I consistently see more Rebel titles used than Imperial.

I don't mean to come down hard on you Kikaze. I just think your fears are coloring your analysis. That, and Demolisher. *shiver*

Maybe that build isn't your style. It's certainly possible to be used effectively.

This is very important.

Up until wave 2 I was HORRIBLE with CR90's. I always over used their speed, I put myself into holes that I could not dig myself out of, it was bad. In wave 3 I started running ISD's for fun, and guess what? Learning to watch my speed on the ISD actually improved my play with the CR90. It helped me understand some tricks to use to counter the ship and become better. Then I translated that to Nebulon-B's and then to DtO.

If you own everything, try everything