I can't imagine this hasn't come up before, but I can't seem to find it in a search, so, here goes.

One of the things a player can do when his opponent rolls threat is make his/her foe suffer strain. However, since minions don't suffer strain, that converts it to additional wounds, right?

This seems a bit OP to me, as there is nothing that prevents PC's from just pumping their enemies full of strain (wounds), thus dispatching them even faster than they would have if they had used their advantage to trigger crits or other effects.

Personally I have no issue with it. Minions are minions, they are there to add tension but shouldn't be the "real" threat.

It should be pointed out that the spending of advantages/threat/triumph/despiar is technically adjudicated by the GM. Players are encouraged to chime in potential uses for advantages/threats/triumphs/despairs (and a good GM listens), but technically it is the GM that has final say in what they are actually used for.

Personally I have no issue with it. Minions are minions, they are there to add tension but shouldn't be the "real" threat.

It should be pointed out that the spending of advantages/threat/triumph/despiar is technically adjudicated by the GM. Players are encouraged to chime in potential uses for advantages/threats/triumphs/despairs (and a good GM listens), but technically it is the GM that has final say in what they are actually used for.

Ah. That's a good point. I have been letting the players spend their own advantage and threat, of course, but I also have been letting each player spend the threat that a foe rolls when they are the target of an attack from said foe. I might place a caveat on it.

I will say be careful. In my opinion, one of the best aspects of this system is how players are all encouraged to interpret dice pools. Reigning that in to just be the GM making the call, while occasionally necessary, a very fast way to detract from one of the strongest points of the system.

Instead of saying "no, you can't give the minions strain," try to listen for a player advising a different interpretation.

I end up using it often in the game I run simply because the only other option for using up 1 threat is to take away a temporary bonus, and usually my stormtroopers haven't bothered to get into cover anyhow.

GMs by default spend all Threat and Despairs from everyone's rolls, not just theirs, so this is not a default option RAW.

I'd be leery about letting minions recover wounds via any means, as minions are by definition meant to be speed bumps for the PCs to deal with while they're en route to the adventure's thrilling conclusion. Minions already have the advantage of numbers, since you need at least 3 minions in a group to make them a plausible threat to the party, so being able to regenerate simply because the PC has a sub-par roll will probably shift the balance of combat more into the favor of the minions when really it's the PCs that should be favored in those instances.

The only way I'd have minions "regenerate" is by merging the groups. Say you have Minion Group A, Minion Group B and Minion Group C, all with 5 minions each. A and B are down 3 each and C only has 1 left, I might have them spend a maneuver, regroup and combine into Minion Group D at full strength - but now there's only one minion group on the battlefield.

Yes, unless the PC has a talent that calls for threat or despair as a resource, the gm should decide how to spend strain and despair for both sides, however I would also rule that a PCs talents overrule the GMs options. Spending it on strain on minions and even rivals (ie opponents causing dmg to themselves all the time doesn't make sense unless you want to run a slapstick type game with minions stepping on garden implements and knocking themselves out.

Don't be afraid to hit minions with Strain, but try to emphasize the narrative threat results, rather than mechanical ones. So if your Bad Guy rolls Brawl against the PC, look at the player and say, "Hm, Success with Threat. What's he do?" The player may say, "Okay, so I take... two wounds, and he'll take three Strain."
This is where you stop him. Say, "No, no. Tell me what happens. Describe it without game mechanics first."

"Oh. So, I guess we're fighting, and he comes in close and headbutts me. So that hurts, but headbutting a guy with a helmet on isn't the best idea, and we both stagger back, holding our heads."

That's much better, and a great reason for strain. If he's fighting a Rival or something and you'd like the fight to last a little longer, you could disorient the Rival instead, or give a boost die to the next person to hit him. But try to favor the Player's desired effect.

I'd be leery about letting minions recover wounds via any means, as minions are by definition meant to be speed bumps for the PCs to deal with while they're en route to the adventure's thrilling conclusion. Minions already have the advantage of numbers, since you need at least 3 minions in a group to make them a plausible threat to the party, so being able to regenerate simply because the PC has a sub-par roll will probably shift the balance of combat more into the favor of the minions when really it's the PCs that should be favored in those instances.

What are you talking? The thread has nothing to do with letting (or not letting) minions recover wounds.

Yes, unless the PC has a talent that calls for threat or despair as a resource, the gm should decide how to spend strain and despair for both sides, however I would also rule that a PCs talents overrule the GMs options. Spending it on strain on minions and even rivals (ie opponents causing dmg to themselves all the time doesn't make sense unless you want to run a slapstick type game with minions stepping on garden implements and knocking themselves out.

I ruled early on, mainly to save myself the extra legwork, that my players could spend the threat that I rolled for (at least) my minions. It was an excuse to shift some of the legwork from me to the players, and also let them be creative. But I might have to change that up.

Yes, unless the PC has a talent that calls for threat or despair as a resource, the gm should decide how to spend strain and despair for both sides, however I would also rule that a PCs talents overrule the GMs options. Spending it on strain on minions and even rivals (ie opponents causing dmg to themselves all the time doesn't make sense unless you want to run a slapstick type game with minions stepping on garden implements and knocking themselves out.

I ruled early on, mainly to save myself the extra legwork, that my players could spend the threat that I rolled for (at least) my minions. It was an excuse to shift some of the legwork from me to the players, and also let them be creative. But I might have to change that up.

^ I do the same most of the time for NPCs. Especially if I am stuck with how to spend them I ask the players for suggestions.

I prefer to let the defender spend threats/despairs, be that a PC or an NPC.

As for having players convert threats to wounds for minions, I don't see much of a problem with that as it's usually easy enough to toss more minions onto the pile as the result of a despair or a flipped DP, if it becomes necessary.

Yes but it's not exactly cinematic to have the heroes defeat opponents because the minions did a lot of the DMG to themselves, even the minions in the films (excepting the standard battle droids in the prequels) did not have that level of incompetence. Essentially you're belittling the PCs,

Example a PC attacks a group is stormtroopers with soak 5 WT 15, 3 minions. Player does a good enough roll with a blaster pistol to do 7 DMG, after soak 2 get through to the trooper. Troopers roll an attack that hits but roll 2 threat,player's choose to use threat to cause 2 DMG bypassing soak. Now can you see where I'm getting at. That players perfectly good shot, which is now equatable to the stormtroopers hurting themselves by accident.

Yes but it's not exactly cinematic to have the heroes defeat opponents because the minions did a lot of the DMG to themselves, even the minions in the films (excepting the standard battle droids in the prequels) did not have that level of incompetence. Essentially you're belittling the PCs,

Example a PC attacks a group is stormtroopers with soak 5 WT 15, 3 minions. Player does a good enough roll with a blaster pistol to do 7 DMG, after soak 2 get through to the trooper. Troopers roll an attack that hits but roll 2 threat,player's choose to use threat to cause 2 DMG bypassing soak. Now can you see where I'm getting at. That players perfectly good shot, which is now equatable to the stormtroopers hurting themselves by accident.

I tend to narrate results like that as environmental effects, equipment failures or difficult to avoid mistakes. Stormtroopers, for example, have severe vision restrictions established in the cannon (ref: quotes about seeing out of these helmets). The Empire is also known to be cheap, viewing personnel as just as expendable as equipment, so both are not necessarily top of the line.

Even still to have the opponents equipment work against them more effectively than the PCs blaster shot would mean I'd feel pretty much like it was pointless me firing a blaster in the first place if I was the PC , as I said it reduces combat to the slapstick Larry Curly Moe routines you see the battle droids do in "The Phantom Menace" and The Clone Wars , esp season 1.

Funny this maybe but its not going to make me feel heroic by any means. YMMV

Yes but it's not exactly cinematic to have the heroes defeat opponents because the minions did a lot of the DMG to themselves, even the minions in the films (excepting the standard battle droids in the prequels) did not have that level of incompetence. Essentially you're belittling the PCs.

The Threat doesn't have to come from incompetence, especially if the PC has defensive talents in his favor. If a fat pile of Threat get turned into Strain, taking out a minion, there's nothing wrong with saying that, in the firefight, a dude got shot. They were blasting at PC1, who had some decent ranged defense and a couple difficulty upgrades going on, rolled a lot of threat, which means they left themselves open to an opportunistic shot from PC2.

This is where you stop him. Say, "No, no. Tell me what happens. Describe it without game mechanics first."

I've been using "Why does that happen" when they try and pass a blue or upgrade on, but I totally need to start doing this more. We've fallen into the Mechanics Not Story trap again. Although to be fair, after 25 years of doing it the other way, it's a tough habit to break.

There is a place for both IMO to keep the flow going sometimes I'll accept the "I'll pass a boost", but I prefer more narrative as the action ramps up

Remember the PC's don't get XP for each NPC they kill, just overload them with reinforcements! If the PC's are eating through your well planed lunch too quickly then just have another couple of Minion groups show up, preferably from unexpected directions, even flip a Destiny Point to show the tide of battle turning. If you want them to have a hard time as part of the story, or want them to be forced into Narrative retreat then do it.

Yes, unless the PC has a talent that calls for threat or despair as a resource, the gm should decide how to spend strain and despair for both sides, however I would also rule that a PCs talents overrule the GMs options. Spending it on strain on minions and even rivals (ie opponents causing dmg to themselves all the time doesn't make sense unless you want to run a slapstick type game with minions stepping on garden implements and knocking themselves out.

Who say they do it to themselves? Combat is dynamic and narrative. Just because a player has not the initiative right now (aka it is not his turn) does not mean his character steps shooting, dodging, punching whatever. It just means someone else has the initiative and initiate an action. A minion "killing himself" might very well just getting out of cover in the wrong moment and getting shot, or getting into hand to hand combat with a wookie and losing his limbs in the process. You see similar mechanics in all the counter attack talents which are based on the attacker rolling threats or despair as well. And minions are minions after all and simply die from minor things.

I'd be leery about letting minions recover wounds via any means, as minions are by definition meant to be speed bumps for the PCs to deal with while they're en route to the adventure's thrilling conclusion. Minions already have the advantage of numbers, since you need at least 3 minions in a group to make them a plausible threat to the party, so being able to regenerate simply because the PC has a sub-par roll will probably shift the balance of combat more into the favor of the minions when really it's the PCs that should be favored in those instances.

What are you talking? The thread has nothing to do with letting (or not letting) minions recover wounds.

Yes, unless the PC has a talent that calls for threat or despair as a resource, the gm should decide how to spend strain and despair for both sides, however I would also rule that a PCs talents overrule the GMs options. Spending it on strain on minions and even rivals (ie opponents causing dmg to themselves all the time doesn't make sense unless you want to run a slapstick type game with minions stepping on garden implements and knocking themselves out.

Who say they do it to themselves? Combat is dynamic and narrative. Just because a player has not the initiative right now (aka it is not his turn) does not mean his character steps shooting, dodging, punching whatever. It just means someone else has the initiative and initiate an action. A minion "killing himself" might very well just getting out of cover in the wrong moment and getting shot, or getting into hand to hand combat with a wookie and losing his limbs in the process. You see similar mechanics in all the counter attack talents which are based on the attacker rolling threats or despair as well. And minions are minions after all and simply die from minor things.

Regardless of how it is narrated the stormtroopers in the case I described did as much damage as a result of their own actions as the PC did as a result of theirs. In fact the stormtroopers own action has the same effect mechanically as turning a blaster pistol on themselves. The very fact that strain causes as much damage as threat rolled and bypasses soak, you would be better off forcing the stormtrooper through checks for skills they don't have as this will cause more DMG to them than some of the better blaster rifles.

Regardless of how it is narrated the stormtroopers in the case I described did as much damage as a result of their own actions as the PC did as a result of theirs. In fact the stormtroopers own action has the same effect mechanically as turning a blaster pistol on themselves. The very fact that strain causes as much damage as threat rolled and bypasses soak, you would be better off forcing the stormtrooper through checks for skills they don't have as this will cause more DMG to them than some of the better blaster rifles.

Sounds like good tactics to me. "****, our little blaster pistols barely do anything to their armor! Let's lead them through this deadly swamp/heavy traffic/droid factory and let their own screwups take them out!"