If that ion cannon has an exhaust card effect, I think the stock in ECMs will be plummetting. Bring them and get it ioned, or leave them out and get accuracied. No one wins. Well, except for Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III.The lack of a defensive retrofit is an outright death sentence for a large scale capital ship. ECM is down right vital.
Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III, Head of FFG
You could still get a use out of the ECM's before the crit takes effect.
...in the original MC80...
Well, to me, the ship is still an "MC80".
The Home One pack contained 2 "MC80"s
The Liberty pack contains 2 "MC80"s
So since we know Guns and Shields are different... Something should be similar... Otherwise, what's the point of calling it an MC80...
So I figure it'll still be Speed 2 with Support.
If that ion cannon has an exhaust card effect, I think the stock in ECMs will be plummetting. Bring them and get it ioned, or leave them out and get accuracied. No one wins. Well, except for Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III.The lack of a defensive retrofit is an outright death sentence for a large scale capital ship. ECM is down right vital.
Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III, Head of FFG
You could still get a use out of the ECM's before the crit takes effect.
Sure thing, brace that 3 damage from my CR90B as your ECM starts weeping. Next up, MC30 Torp frig and has HE got a DEAL for You!
I think the natural speed 3 MC80 shall be reserved for the wingless liberty (wave 5) since that's what would make at least SOME sense, given that it's got an extra fatty engine and less mass than the liberty. Given that its also the most common MC80 at Endor (though gets the least glamor shots) I'd be willing to be its the true "AFmkII+" that some of us who hate the froggy have been waiting for.
Also, didn't Clon figure out that there's a support team card in the stack for the Liberty already, meaning e-techs is a go?
The thing is with all this ECM talk - Overload Pulse effectively does what you guys want to do to ECMs, only better because it works well against any ship, not just those with ECMs, and it causes an ECMed Brace that gets used afterwards to be discarded. Exhaust all those tokens with an early cheap attack and then follow it up later with something meaner and just mess up plans for defense tokens. The thing is... Overload Pulse has been out since wave one and it's still a rarely-used upgrade card because it's so combo-dependent that it rarely comes through on the table against decent opposition. So unless I'm seeing the secret Overload Pulse Deep Cover FFG Fanclub meeting right here, I doubt we'll actually see an upgrade-exhausting crit get much use unless it's very cheap (3 or 4 points at most) and exhaustable upgrades are a regular thing.
It's also possible that the new blue crit cannon is a targeted Overload Pulse for much cheaper, choosing an exhausting a single defense token rather than all of them. That's certainly an easier to swallow incidental upgrade instead of the hefty 8 points for Overload Pulse and still achieves a similar end effect.
The silly possibility is that you choose and exCHANGE the defender's something, but I don't know what you'd be exchanging (command dials? defense tokens?) or for what. That seems very unlikely.
most everyone noticed that and its that is why we are having this convo 
Well being able to hit a ships Intel Officer, Splicer Tools, etc is pretty nice. Regardless of the ship. Sure not always the best of cards but it will give people more options as more exhaustible cards come out.
The thing is with all this ECM talk - Overload Pulse effectively does what you guys want to do to ECMs, only better because it works well against any ship, not just those with ECMs, and it causes an ECMed Brace that gets used afterwards to be discarded. Exhaust all those tokens with an early cheap attack and then follow it up later with something meaner and just mess up plans for defense tokens. The thing is... Overload Pulse has been out since wave one and it's still a rarely-used upgrade card because it's so combo-dependent that it rarely comes through on the table against decent opposition. So unless I'm seeing the secret Overload Pulse Deep Cover FFG Fanclub meeting right here, I doubt we'll actually see an upgrade-exhausting crit get much use unless it's very cheap (3 or 4 points at most) and exhaustable upgrades are a regular thing.
It's also possible that the new blue crit cannon is a targeted Overload Pulse for much cheaper, choosing an exhausting a single defense token rather than all of them. That's certainly an easier to swallow incidental upgrade instead of the hefty 8 points for Overload Pulse and still achieves a similar end effect.
The silly possibility is that you choose and exCHANGE the defender's something, but I don't know what you'd be exchanging (command dials? defense tokens?) or for what. That seems very unlikely.
Yeah, I'm not saying it would JUST be for ECMs. It has much more utility than that, if it messes with upgrade cards. Depending on points, it is something I would bring as a nice bonus if it goes off, but not as like an overload pulse c-c-c-c-combo breaker.
starting to wonder if a utility ship just to mess with your opponents stuff will become prominent, aside from the flotillas
If that ion cannon has an exhaust card effect, I think the stock in ECMs will be plummetting. Bring them and get it ioned, or leave them out and get accuracied. No one wins. Well, except for Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III.The lack of a defensive retrofit is an outright death sentence for a large scale capital ship. ECM is down right vital.
Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III, Head of FFG
You could still get a use out of the ECM's before the crit takes effect.
Sure thing, brace that 3 damage from my CR90B as your ECM starts weeping. Next up, MC30 Torp frig and has HE got a DEAL for You!
Be careful that you don't give away your activation order to your opponent. That can hurt you worse than most realize.
starting to wonder if a utility ship just to mess with your opponents stuff will become prominent, aside from the flotillas
If we counted flotilla's. . . Splicer tools with Tractor Beams. . . MWUHAHAHA
Well being able to hit a ships Intel Officer, Splicer Tools, etc is pretty nice. Regardless of the ship. Sure not always the best of cards but it will give people more options as more exhaustible cards come out.
Oh it is for sure. With something like Engine Techs or Intel Officer you'll need to hit that ship before it can hit you, which can sometimes be a problem for blue dice (and can still not happen if you don't roll a crit).
The problem with using it against Slicer Tools is you'll need to land both a blue crit AND an Accuracy to lock down the Scatter. If you're at medium range, you'll need your crit to last through a possible reroll as well. Not saying it would be impossible, just difficult in that instance.
As we've discussed, it's not great vs. ECMs. It's not bad, just... I wouldn't plan on setting up some kind of 1-2 punch combo for the same reasons that Overload Pulse isn't popular.
I'd also like to restate that assuming it does exhaust an upgrade card, the cost on the new ion cannon crit will be important. It's obviously a bit niche depending on opponent upgrade choice and such, but I'd consider it if it was cheap enough to include as a "hey, this could come in handy" style of upgrade for 2-4 points. More than that and I'm likely not going to bother.
Any combo that requires more than one ship is already pretty suspect.
Much like double arc-ing, just combining fire between ships is the simplest combo in the game and the raw dice are often more than effective enough.
starting to wonder if a utility ship just to mess with your opponents stuff will become prominent, aside from the flotillas
If we counted flotilla's. . . Splicer tools with Tractor Beams. . . MWUHAHAHA
And an Interdictor. Demolisher's worst nightmare. Tractor its speed down to two, Slicer Tools its dial to something useless, then Interdictor it down to a temporary speed one. You'll lose that Gozanti, but man, would it be worth it.
starting to wonder if a utility ship just to mess with your opponents stuff will become prominent, aside from the flotillas
I feel like that is what the Interdictor is going to spend alot of time doing.
If that ion cannon has an exhaust card effect, I think the stock in ECMs will be plummetting. Bring them and get it ioned, or leave them out and get accuracied. No one wins. Well, except for Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III.The lack of a defensive retrofit is an outright death sentence for a large scale capital ship. ECM is down right vital.
Worthington Fantasy Flight Games III, Head of FFG
BAHAHAHA YES
My arch nemesis, ol' Worthington!
I don't know about DR, but I'm betting on SPD3. It's the Rebels equivalent to the ISD and they already got a SPD2 large in the original MC80. I think they'll go for something with an entirely different flavor.calling it now.. Liberty will not have DR
will be speed 2
This is probably true.
Almost certainly speed 2, both because it's an MC80 variant and because we've got evidence that it can take Engine Techs.
As fit Defensive Retrofit, I'm inclined to agree just because we haven't seen any evidence that it can.
I'm gonna disagree. The liberty will be speed 2, because evident suggests it has a support team upgrade slot. Speed 4 large ship, with engine techs? I don't think so.
That said, as a counter point, speed 4 on a front arc ship lacking black dice actually probably isn't as useful as it seems.
starting to wonder if a utility ship just to mess with your opponents stuff will become prominent, aside from the flotillas
I feel like that is what the Interdictor is going to spend alot of time doing.
definitely that one! But even taking it a step further, corvettes and such
I don't know about DR, but I'm betting on SPD3. It's the Rebels equivalent to the ISD and they already got a SPD2 large in the original MC80. I think they'll go for something with an entirely different flavor.
calling it now.. Liberty will not have DR
will be speed 2
This is probably true.
Almost certainly speed 2, both because it's an MC80 variant and because we've got evidence that it can take Engine Techs.
As fit Defensive Retrofit, I'm inclined to agree just because we haven't seen any evidence that it can.
I'm gonna disagree. The liberty will be speed 2, because evident suggests it has a support team upgrade slot. Speed 4 large ship, with engine techs? I don't think so.
That said, as a counter point, speed 4 on a front arc ship lacking black dice actually probably isn't as useful as it seems.
From a game aesthetics design perspective, I think l a speed 4 liberty would look and feel stupid.
But as you said, for 8 points, the game play advantage is probably limited. Once yo over shoot you aren't getting back into the game.
Of course, there are support teams that aren't engine techs...
If the liberty is speed 3, it wouldn't feel as much like you "had" to add engine techs. And maybe some of those other tesms would see play.
I think DonKarnage has it right. I've never seen anything but ET in that slot and that's sad.
A Libery with Engineering Teams backed by Redemption with Projection Experts (and maybe a GR-75 with Repair Crews) could take a beating and dish it out, too.
Of course, it's kind of like a massive Nebulon-B. Great front shields and arc, crappy side shields and arcs.
That is what is going to make them fantastic again...Spinal Turbolasers will give Nebulons a serious punch.
That is what is going to make them fantastic again...Spinal Turbolasers will give Nebulons a serious punch.
Mmm... I'm kind of curious as to why the spinal tap is getting so much love: we've kind of had access to single red die upgrades before (slaved turrets?) On a ship with GT's or a double-arcer, I can understand the hesitance, but especially for a neb-b with its skinny front arc and beefy 3 front shields, you generally are hoping to only have a single thing to blast, no?
Mathematically, TRC's add way more damage than an extra die and also reduce the variance- both things which I'd want for reds.
Now if spinals somehow added TWO reds...
I think its mostly because Slaved Turrets has the opportunity cost of completely removing your Second "attack" and your Turbolaser Slot...
.. and even then, it sees play for/againgst TRCs, which have the Opportunity cost of your Single Evade on a Neb-B and your Turbolaser Slot...
Neither are a perfect solution.
But a flat +1 Dice to the front, with the only opportunity cost being the Turbolaser Slot...
Its like a best-of-both-Worlds Compromise.
Or, at the very least, a viable compromise given opportunity costs.
Edited by Drasnighta