I certainly agree... I just frustrate myself.

Like Take the Station last weekend.

MonCal Assault, Enhanced Armament, Leading Shots, with its Objective token, and a Concentrate Fire.

Long Range at the Side of a Victory.

Shot on Turn Two... 7 Red Dice... Three Accs, 6 Damage Total...

Shot on Turn Three... 6 Red Dice (no Confire this time)...

... 2 damage, no accs.

So very Swingy

Oh yeah, I've seen the swinginess in action many times myself and it can be frustrating (my VSDs were rolling red dice like garbage last night, loving results of Accuracy + blank dice at long to medium range).

I explained already why I'm hesitant about adding more than 1 red dice to an arc, but if the Spinal Turbolasers do in fact act like red dice Expanded Launchers, I'd be curious to see how it played out. It would certainly be a boon for VSDs (especially with Vader!), which would be a welcome change. I'd have to run the math on Salvation as to whether it would be superior to just stick with the guaranteed crit from TRCs versus the uncertainties of 2 more red dice. I'd think the extra dice, but I can's say so with absolute certainty. Maybe if the +2 red dice upgrade was limited to medium or large ships only? That would be a nice limitation, and heck - you might even see Assault Frigate MkIIAs or MC80s running those so they could double-arc well.

Is it outside the realm of possibility that there is an officer that lets you slap a support teams on a ship that doesn't have support teams? Or would that be too OP with ISDs?

I suspect that's likely asking too much if there's no restriction. Engine Techs on an ISD seem extremely strong to me, although the smaller Support Teams wouldn't be a big problem. I had a suggestion on the VSD chain for something like that which would help VSDs take Nav Teams, which they could get solid use out of...

Expanded Crew Quarters

Offensive Retrofit

X points

Modification.

"This ship may equip a single Support Team or Weapon Team upgrade that costs 6 points or less at normal cost."

Would allow for VSDs to run Nav Teams, Command MC80s to run Flight Controllers, and possible doubling-up on Support or Weapons Teams but comes at the cost of using up your only modification and prohibits insanity like giving ISDs Engine Techs or MC80s Gunnery Teams.

What if we limit them to small and medium base ships?

The point was made, and it shouldn't be ignored.

That point is "These are Red Dice".

Red dice need some measure of Modification.

Raw Red Dice are scary... Pseudo-Reliable Red Dice are frightening.

This is why DtO works.

I'd have to run the math on Salvation as to whether it would be superior to just stick with the guaranteed crit from TRCs versus the uncertainties of 2 more red dice. I'd think the extra dice, but I can's say so with absolute certainty.

Just Monte Carlo'd it, the 2 dice are better.

Rolling 0 blacks, 0 blues, and 3 reds, 100000 times.
Factors in play:
Turbolaser Reroute Circuits
Salvation

At close range
===============

4.37868 average damage.
32.8% chance of natural accuracy.

Rolling 0 blacks, 0 blues, and 5 reds, 100000 times.
Factors in play:
Salvation

At close range
===============

4.9957 average damage.
48.76% chance of natural accuracy.

Ard what strange magic is this?

Ard what strange magic is this?

Python die-rolling Monte Carlo script I wrote and (kind of) maintain. Rolls dice a bunch of times, modifies them optimally (I think), and averages the results.

How does the math change when using Concentrate Fire? I'd think it would give a bit of a boost to the TLRC Salvation, but I'll let you continue on with the math this time .

Rolling 0 blacks, 0 blues, and 4 reds, 100000 times.

Factors in play:

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

Salvation

At close range

===============

5.52399 average damage.

41.44% chance of natural accuracy.

Rolling 0 blacks, 0 blues, and 6 reds, 100000 times.

Factors in play:

Salvation

At close range

===============

6.00375 average damage.

55.17% chance of natural accuracy.

Because I was curious: you'd have to be rolling 19 natural reds before you'd get more damage out of TRC than +2 dice.

This, of course, disregards double-arcing, the exhausted evades, and everything else beyond the raw math of "how much damage in one shot."

Huh, okay. So a bit closer in terms of average damage and chances for an accuracy, but still a solid benefit to the +2 red dice (thus far) imaginary upgrade.

I guess the only real limiting factor then would be points. If TRCs are 7 and Super Spinal Turbolasers +2 was 16, would it be worth the extra 9 points? I'm not really sure. You don't need to spend your Evades, which seems like a net win, but 16 points is not chump change for a single upgrade. That would make it the most expensive upgrade in the game.

All this is moot because the Spinal Turbolasers upgrade applies to two hull zones, likely front and rear, and it's not going to give two red dice to front and rear.

It's likely just a reprint of Enhanced armament but for the front and rear arcs.

All this is moot because the Spinal Turbolasers upgrade applies to two hull zones, likely front and rear, and it's not going to give two red dice to front and rear.

It's likely just a reprint of Enhanced armament but for the front and rear arcs.

Anything that makes Nebulon B's baller again is good in my book.

I have four of them that see very little use...

All this is moot because the Spinal Turbolasers upgrade applies to two hull zones, likely front and rear, and it's not going to give two red dice to front and rear.

It's likely just a reprint of Enhanced armament but for the front and rear arcs.

And my money is on that as well, but the fact is that we don't know for certain just yet and it's fun to consider what if scenarios.

All this is moot because the Spinal Turbolasers upgrade applies to two hull zones, likely front and rear, and it's not going to give two red dice to front and rear.

It's likely just a reprint of Enhanced armament but for the front and rear arcs.

And my money is on that as well, but the fact is that we don't know for certain just yet and it's fun to consider what if scenarios.

And wonder about how bad the powercreep will be in the coming year.

I'm trying to think if there are any ships that aren't benefited by Spinal Turbolasers, and I honestly can't think of any. Even ISD2s, a ship that is already dumping buckets of dice into front targets, would actually see a solid benefit at long range with even one die added. If it also boosted up the rear arc, this would make the ISD and VSD far more threatening to ships that successfully get behind them.

I'm trying to think if there are any ships that aren't benefited by Spinal Turbolasers, and I honestly can't think of any. Even ISD2s, a ship that is already dumping buckets of dice into front targets, would actually see a solid benefit at long range with even one die added. If it also boosted up the rear arc, this would make the ISD and VSD far more threatening to ships that successfully get behind them.

Indeed, Raw dice is useful... But its also the opportunity cost you lose...

Red Dice are Fickle. Getting 1 or 2 Accuracies is fine and all, but if they ECM the brace you'r elocking down, you might have been better with HTTs anyway.

I'm trying to think if there are any ships that aren't benefited by Spinal Turbolasers, and I honestly can't think of any. Even ISD2s, a ship that is already dumping buckets of dice into front targets, would actually see a solid benefit at long range with even one die added. If it also boosted up the rear arc, this would make the ISD and VSD far more threatening to ships that successfully get behind them.

Indeed, Raw dice is useful... But its also the opportunity cost you lose...

Red Dice are Fickle. Getting 1 or 2 Accuracies is fine and all, but if they ECM the brace you'r elocking down, you might have been better with HTTs anyway.

The only opportunity cost you are losing is other upgrades in the same slot. TRCs, XI-7s, even HTTs are potentially more useful on certain ships.

Back to the original purpose of the thread...

Targeting (thing)

While a friendly ship at distance 1-5 is being attacked at close range, during the Spend Defense tokens step, you make exhaust this card to force your opponent to reroll one die of your choice.

I figure the range being 1-5 is consistent with the G-8. It's gotta be one dice because there's not card room for "up to X."

Grav Sh(ift?)

Before deploying, place 1 grav shift token in the setup area. After deployment, you may move each obstacle in range 1-3 of the token distance 1-2 of its current location. You cannot overlap other obstacles.

MS-1 I(on thing)

Blue crit: Choose and exhaust one of the defender's upgrade cards.

Guessing on the unknown top row cards feels like an exercise in insanity, so I'll pass.

Enc(ore! Encore!)
At the start of the round, recover 1 defense token.

Mo( Money Mo Problems)

While attacking, the defender can't spend more than 1 defense token (?).

High-C(apacity) Ion T(urrets)

The battery armaments for your left and right hull zonse are increased by 1 blue die.

Spinal (Turbolasers)

The battery armaments for your front and rear hull zones are increased by 1 red die.

Quad Turbol(lasers)

While attacking and at least 1 red die face has an Accuracy icon, add a red die with a face set to your choice of (crit) or (accuracy) (?).

Honestly, +2 out of the Front... my Fear goes to Vics with Gunnery Teams.

Because that's Relevant again.

All this is moot because the Spinal Turbolasers upgrade applies to two hull zones, likely front and rear, and it's not going to give two red dice to front and rear.

It's likely just a reprint of Enhanced armament but for the front and rear arcs.

And my money is on that as well, but the fact is that we don't know for certain just yet and it's fun to consider what if scenarios.

MS-1s - when I first saw this I just assumed it meant exhaust an upgrade card that is normally exhausted to use (like ECM). Which is ok I guess but a bit limited in application.

But then I think I remember that the rules just say "Exhausted upgrade cards can't be used" and "Exhausted cards are readied at the end of round".

So can it be used to exhaust say, someones Demolisher upgrade? Or their APTs? Or their Admiral Motti? (Might be hilarious in the late game)

MS-1s - when I first saw this I just assumed it meant exhaust an upgrade card that is normally exhausted to use (like ECM). Which is ok I guess but a bit limited in application.

But then I think I remember that the rules just say "Exhausted upgrade cards can't be used" and "Exhausted cards are readied at the end of round".

So can it be used to exhaust say, someones Demolisher upgrade? Or their APTs? Or their Admiral Motti? (Might be hilarious in the late game)

I think the only restriction is that you can't exhaust an already exhausted card... But it's never come up. I don't think there's a rule that explicitly states that a card that is "always on" (basically all cards that don't require you to exhaust them to work) are effected at all by being exhausted.

There is nothing in the rules reference guide that states than an exhausted upgrade card stops functioning if it provides a consistent effect (say, like the Demolisher title or XI7 Turbolasers). Exhausting an upgrade card would only be effective against upgrade cards that need to be exhausted to be used (Engine Techs, Electronic Countermeasures, the Interdictor title, etc.).

Yes. I thought the same thing, and then when I looked it up, couldn't find it.

An Exhausted Card can't be exhausted again.

But an Exhausted Card works if it doesn't have to be Exhausted to Turn on.

Huh, okay. So a bit closer in terms of average damage and chances for an accuracy, but still a solid benefit to the +2 red dice (thus far) imaginary upgrade.

I guess the only real limiting factor then would be points. If TRCs are 7 and Super Spinal Turbolasers +2 was 16, would it be worth the extra 9 points? I'm not really sure. You don't need to spend your Evades, which seems like a net win, but 16 points is not chump change for a single upgrade. That would make it the most expensive upgrade in the game.