I have a tendency to play highly atypical squads. Recently it's consisted of generic Phantoms, and I have had a lot of success and fun with them. The downside I've run into though is the tendency to burn out after about 5 games in a row. That's absolutely no problem for casual, but if I'd like to place higher than I need to play squads that don't require quite so much agonizing over maneuvers.

Which leads me to my current debate. I love Phantoms, they're hands-down my favorite ship. I want to keep running one, but need to fly a squad that is forgiving on maneuvers. This sets myself up well for running an ace, but conflicts with my desire to fly something atypical.

With that, here's my first take at a new squad.

"Whisper" (32)
Predator (3)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

Whisper takes Sensor Jammer to bump up her survivability, especially against U-Boats. This hampers her offensive output quite a bit due to a lack of FCS, leading me to give her Predator. Which, in turn, leaves her vulnerable to aces because of the lack of VI. In comes Intel Agent, the saving grace of generic Phantoms and an upgrade I've come to abuse and appreciate greatly. I contest that it makes Phantoms the most effective blockers in the game.

The general goal is to deal as much damage with Whisper as to make it so the enemy squad can't handle two x7 Defenders. The Defenders act primarily as blockers and make Sensor Jammer hugely effective, but also as consistent damage that can't be ignored.

I'm hoping to give this a shot as soon as possible, but I'm curious what other builds are out there that use Whisper without VI.

you can run the same 'support' ships you got there, but Lone Wolf and Agent Kallus to provide more consistency of green dice. still at 100 points.

Call it Wave 4 Strikes Back.

you can run the same 'support' ships you got there, but Lone Wolf and Agent Kallus to provide more consistency of green dice. still at 100 points.

I like this, but with the exception of Agent Kallus instead of Intel Agent. IA has saved my ass so many times, and made it so I looked forward to facing Soontir as I could always block him if he got into range 1-2 and I could see his dial.

When I read the title of the thread, I thought to myself: "If you ditch VI, you can get Predator, which opens up your system slot for Sensor Jammer". If there's a benefit to it, it's that your not hinging your strategy on getting initiative. Of course, there will be whole squads full of fairly maneuverable ships that will out PS Whisper. I do like Panic's suggestion of Lone Wolf/Kallus instead of Predator/Intel Agent, but I kind of like a "low" PS Whisper using Intel Agent to set up brutal blocks on Soontir Fel, to have him ripped apart by TIE Defenders. I think you should run it and see what happens. From that point of view, would Echo be better? She's a better blocker than Whisper is.

My question is just is sensor jammer+predator good enough to avoid dying to say Vader with predator and atc? The inquisitor with his standard ptl build? I don't honestly know but I'm going to hazard a guess and say not really since to them it's like shooting a z95 which somehow has sensor jammer but they usually have a focus anyway.

you can run the same 'support' ships you got there, but Lone Wolf and Agent Kallus to provide more consistency of green dice. still at 100 points.

But still no VI. You better be a good blocker.

My question is just is sensor jammer+predator good enough to avoid dying to say Vader with predator and atc? The inquisitor with his standard ptl build? I don't honestly know but I'm going to hazard a guess and say not really since to them it's like shooting a z95 which somehow has sensor jammer but they usually have a focus anyway.

This is a concern, but if Whisper is sitting some distance back from the Defenders, the Inquisitor, or whoever, is also thinking about dodging range 1 arcs and and not having a Focus for Defense.

If you want a ultimate Troll Blocking Whisper you can go with:

VI (wait for it)

ENHANCED SCOPES

Int Agent

Advv Cloaking.

See Dial

Decloak

Move at 0

Shoot and cloak at 9

a slim 39 points no modifications, but do it right and they get no modifiers

100% Hilarity.

this brings me to a question i'd never thought id need to ask... int agent and Decloak both happen at the beginning of activation correct? can you do them in any order?

When I read the title of the thread, I thought to myself: "If you ditch VI, you can get Predator, which opens up your system slot for Sensor Jammer". If there's a benefit to it, it's that your not hinging your strategy on getting initiative. Of course, there will be whole squads full of fairly maneuverable ships that will out PS Whisper. I do like Panic's suggestion of Lone Wolf/Kallus instead of Predator/Intel Agent, but I kind of like a "low" PS Whisper using Intel Agent to set up brutal blocks on Soontir Fel, to have him ripped apart by TIE Defenders. I think you should run it and see what happens. From that point of view, would Echo be better? She's a better blocker than Whisper is.

Good point on Echo, but Whisper hits that sweet spot of 7 where she beats out non VI-Iggys for ACD or can block VI-Iggys. PS 6 is always a spot I've been very wary of for some reason.

One question I have is, if you're not going for top PS, then would something other than Adv Cloaking Device be a better choice for a modification?

you can run the same 'support' ships you got there, but Lone Wolf and Agent Kallus to provide more consistency of green dice. still at 100 points.

But still no VI. You better be a good blocker.

I like to think I'm pretty good It's the only way to win with generic phantoms.

My question is just is sensor jammer+predator good enough to avoid dying to say Vader with predator and atc? The inquisitor with his standard ptl build? I don't honestly know but I'm going to hazard a guess and say not really since to them it's like shooting a z95 which somehow has sensor jammer but they usually have a focus anyway.

This is a concern, but if Whisper is sitting some distance back from the Defenders, the Inquisitor, or whoever, is also thinking about dodging range 1 arcs and and not having a Focus for Defense.

That'd be the goal, though it's uphill. Vader is going to be a concern of mine, but the thing is he was likely to beat my PS anyways. Omega Leader is actually who I'm more concerned about though because he'll shut down Sensor Jammer and any tokens for defense.

If you want a ultimate Troll Blocking Whisper you can go with:

VI (wait for it)

ENHANCED SCOPES

Int Agent

Advv Cloaking.

See Dial

Decloak

Move at 0

Shoot and cloak at 9

a slim 39 points no modifications, but do it right and they get no modifiers

100% Hilarity.

this brings me to a question i'd never thought id need to ask... int agent and Decloak both happen at the beginning of activation correct? can you do them in any order?

Yes, you can do them in either order. While Scoped Whisper is pretty hilarious, that's a lot of points for a PS 0 pilot.

One question I have is, if you're not going for top PS, then would something other than Adv Cloaking Device be a better choice for a modification?

Personally, I use ACD for the action economy and mobility instead of defense. There's a certain user around here that always proves right about green dice...

That'd be the goal, though it's uphill. Vader is going to be a concern of mine, but the thing is he was likely to beat my PS anyways. Omega Leader is actually who I'm more concerned about though because he'll shut down Sensor Jammer and any tokens for defense.

If you want a ultimate Troll Blocking Whisper you can go with:

VI (wait for it)

ENHANCED SCOPES

Int Agent

Advv Cloaking.

See Dial

Decloak

Move at 0

Shoot and cloak at 9

a slim 39 points no modifications, but do it right and they get no modifiers

100% Hilarity.

this brings me to a question i'd never thought id need to ask... int agent and Decloak both happen at the beginning of activation correct? can you do them in any order?

Yes, you can do them in either order. While Scoped Whisper is pretty hilarious, that's a lot of points for a PS 0 pilot.

Activates at 0, shoots at 9

Can't argue with you there haha!

It just hurts to see that high of a PS put to waste, though the trolling factor is always nice

Is it me or are we splitting hairs trying to find a multi-point placement for a 1 point upgrade.

I have a tendency to play highly atypical squads. Recently it's consisted of generic Phantoms, and I have had a lot of success and fun with them. The downside I've run into though is the tendency to burn out after about 5 games in a row. That's absolutely no problem for casual, but if I'd like to place higher than I need to play squads that don't require quite so much agonizing over maneuvers. Which leads me to my current debate. I love Phantoms, they're hands-down my favorite ship. I want to keep running one, but need to fly a squad that is forgiving on maneuvers. This sets myself up well for running an ace, but conflicts with my desire to fly something atypical. With that, here's my first take at a new squad. "Whisper" (32) Predator (3) Sensor Jammer (4) Intelligence Agent (1) Advanced Cloaking Device (4) Delta Squadron Pilot (30) TIE/x7 (-2) Delta Squadron Pilot (30) TIE/x7 (-2) Total: 100 Whisper takes Sensor Jammer to bump up her survivability, especially against U-Boats. This hampers her offensive output quite a bit due to a lack of FCS, leading me to give her Predator. Which, in turn, leaves her vulnerable to aces because of the lack of VI. In comes Intel Agent, the saving grace of generic Phantoms and an upgrade I've come to abuse and appreciate greatly. I contest that it makes Phantoms the most effective blockers in the game. The general goal is to deal as much damage with Whisper as to make it so the enemy squad can't handle two x7 Defenders. The Defenders act primarily as blockers and make Sensor Jammer hugely effective, but also as consistent damage that can't be ignored. I'm hoping to give this a shot as soon as possible, but I'm curious what other builds are out there that use Whisper without VI.

With PtL you could get a second action after getting your free cloak action from ACD. You could use this to barrel roll out of an arc after firing.

Is it me or are we splitting hairs trying to find a multi-point placement for a 1 point upgrade.

More like splitting hairs trying not to take a 1pt upgrade which is almost mandatory, due to the poor design of the cloak mechanic.

you can run the same 'support' ships you got there, but Lone Wolf and Agent Kallus to provide more consistency of green dice. still at 100 points.

But still no VI. You better be a good blocker.

I like to think I'm pretty good It's the only way to win with generic phantoms.

My question is just is sensor jammer+predator good enough to avoid dying to say Vader with predator and atc? The inquisitor with his standard ptl build? I don't honestly know but I'm going to hazard a guess and say not really since to them it's like shooting a z95 which somehow has sensor jammer but they usually have a focus anyway.

This is a concern, but if Whisper is sitting some distance back from the Defenders, the Inquisitor, or whoever, is also thinking about dodging range 1 arcs and and not having a Focus for Defense.

That'd be the goal, though it's uphill. Vader is going to be a concern of mine, but the thing is he was likely to beat my PS anyways. Omega Leader is actually who I'm more concerned about though because he'll shut down Sensor Jammer and any tokens for defense.

If you want a ultimate Troll Blocking Whisper you can go with:

VI (wait for it)

ENHANCED SCOPES

Int Agent

Advv Cloaking.

See Dial

Decloak

Move at 0

Shoot and cloak at 9

a slim 39 points no modifications, but do it right and they get no modifiers

100% Hilarity.

this brings me to a question i'd never thought id need to ask... int agent and Decloak both happen at the beginning of activation correct? can you do them in any order?

Yes, you can do them in either order. While Scoped Whisper is pretty hilarious, that's a lot of points for a PS 0 pilot.

Actually you can't; you HAVE to do Intel Agent first. So harsh man(!)

The trouble with non-VI whisper is that 8 is the most common high PS at the moment, and she will get clowned on by the inquisitor, carnor, poe, OL, etc etc etc.

I used to run echo with advance sensors and push the limit which worked well even for a low ps pilot

No, I cannot imagine Whisper without VI. That one point is so much worth it for him. But just for him. For Echo on the other side I can imagine there are also other good options beside VI. Outmaneuver for example (or Predator when Sensor Jammer was taken instead of FCS)

Gave it a shot last night, and it was AWESOME!

I played against a friend of mine who's practicing a list for regionals, so I'd rather not go into too much detail on what he flew or how I countered it. But some critical blocks were pulled off by all three of my ships, with Whisper going after one of his aces for a key block that let the two x7's unload two focus+evade R1 shots into him. In short, my previous squad lost 0-100 and this squad won 100-0.

All three ships are a threat, and the dice variability is dramatically less than my previous squad.