Got the last of my a-wing swarm to paint this weekend, I'll be hitting up both episodes for some goodness.

Crow-pie ain't half bad if you make it yourself...and I had lots of practice. I don't tickle or nothing. I got my technique down and everythang!

*Edits in red.

I really, really, really want the Liberty to be speed 3. I'd much rather have natural speed 3 than being able to engine tech. I really wanted to like the Home one, but I just couldn't get it to work for me at speed 2. I think paying more for speed 3 would be worth it. For game balance, I can't see why speed 3 wouldn't work, as the ISD it.

I really, really desperately hope it is speed 2. That much firepower AND maneuver (speed 4 after Etechs? With Madine?) with almost no downsides for a hefty discount would be 100% broken.

Before you say speed 3, imagine this:

Liberty, Raymus, General Madine, Gunnery Teams, Spinal Turrets, Leading Shots.

8 dice at speed 4 equivalent with three extra clicks on two medium range targets, followed by engineering to repair all the return fire.

That makes Demolisher look overpriced.

So you say a speed 4 jousting ship is dangerous? I see a downside, it is those side shields. You don't want to go speed 4 if you have a 1 click side arc.

So for a medoum/long range ship does not like speed 4 as much as one would think. I found that out after playing with the Nebulon-B so much.

Possibly, but the speed 4 isn't necessarily used to "charge" head on. This is something I learned when learning to use the ISD in a low activation list. Head on charge = stupid suicide most of the time, even for an ISD. The REAL danger of a speed 4 front-arc battleship is flanking power when combined with good objective/obstacle placement. Also keep in mind the new rebel Admiral that could potentially turn a modest nav chart for a heavy ship into a 90 degree hook capable speed 4 flanker. Now THAT is scary!

Sure, it could have a 90 degree turn at speed 4 but it could have a WEIRD movement chart. Imagine a Speed chart at speed 3 that was 1, 1, 0. Or even 0, 2, 0. Imagine at speed 2 the ship is 0, 2. That would be a HUGE difrence from what we have and would affect how we look at the ship.

The main reason the VSD is hated is not because of its speed, it is because of its inability to turn properly. If the VSD had the yaw value of the MC80 it would be an AMAZING ship. Not just good as it is now.

I really, really, really want the Liberty to be speed 3. I'd much rather have natural speed 3 than being able to engine tech. I really wanted to like the Home one, but I just couldn't get it to work for me at speed 2. I think paying more for speed 3 would be worth it. For game balance, I can't see why speed 3 wouldn't work, as the ISD it.

I really, really desperately hope it is speed 2. That much firepower AND maneuver (speed 4 after Etechs? With Madine?) with almost no downsides for a hefty discount would be 100% broken.

Before you say speed 3, imagine this:

Liberty, Raymus, General Madine, Gunnery Teams, Spinal Turrets, Leading Shots.

8 dice at speed 4 equivalent with three extra clicks on two medium range targets, followed by engineering to repair all the return fire.

That makes Demolisher look overpriced.

So you say a speed 4 jousting ship is dangerous? I see a downside, it is those side shields. You don't want to go speed 4 if you have a 1 click side arc.

So for a medoum/long range ship does not like speed 4 as much as one would think. I found that out after playing with the Nebulon-B so much.

Possibly, but the speed 4 isn't necessarily used to "charge" head on. This is something I learned when learning to use the ISD in a low activation list. Head on charge = stupid suicide most of the time, even for an ISD. The REAL danger of a speed 4 front-arc battleship is flanking power when combined with good objective/obstacle placement. Also keep in mind the new rebel Admiral that could potentially turn a modest nav chart for a heavy ship into a 90 degree hook capable speed 4 flanker. Now THAT is scary!

Sure, it could have a 90 degree turn at speed 4 but it could have a WEIRD movement chart. Imagine a Speed chart at speed 3 that was 1, 1, 0. Or even 0, 2, 0. Imagine at speed 2 the ship is 0, 2. That would be a HUGE difrence from what we have and would affect how we look at the ship.

The main reason the VSD is hated is not because of its speed, it is because of its inability to turn properly. If the VSD had the yaw value of the MC80 it would be an AMAZING ship. Not just good as it is now.

Yeah but the VSD is significantly cheaper than the MC80, and also a medium base ship.

At speed 3 to claim the ship will have some irregular nav chart is a bit facetious. It would go against the entire design philosophy of the game so far.

A speed 3 Lib80 with -/||/- is frankly ridiculous, especially as a large base ship. Even at 1,1,0 (which is at least possible) with Madine and Nav dial and engine techs is could do a 1,1,2,?(min 1). I don't have a maneouver tool in front of me but i'm sure that starts to look frighteningly like a 90. On a large base ship. For potentially less points than an MC80H1...if the ship has speed 3 and ANY reasonable nav chart that has a total of 2 clicks on it plus engine techs it will have to cost more than an MC80 which brings it into ISD+ points territory.

I think with any amount of analysis based on extrapolating reasonable nav assignment from previous designs it's safe to bet that we are looking at a speed 2 ship that can equip engine techs but probably has 1 more click than the MC80 chart across both speeds

I really, really, really want the Liberty to be speed 3. I'd much rather have natural speed 3 than being able to engine tech. I really wanted to like the Home one, but I just couldn't get it to work for me at speed 2. I think paying more for speed 3 would be worth it. For game balance, I can't see why speed 3 wouldn't work, as the ISD it.

I really, really desperately hope it is speed 2. That much firepower AND maneuver (speed 4 after Etechs? With Madine?) with almost no downsides for a hefty discount would be 100% broken.

Before you say speed 3, imagine this:

Liberty, Raymus, General Madine, Gunnery Teams, Spinal Turrets, Leading Shots.

8 dice at speed 4 equivalent with three extra clicks on two medium range targets, followed by engineering to repair all the return fire.

That makes Demolisher look overpriced.

So you say a speed 4 jousting ship is dangerous? I see a downside, it is those side shields. You don't want to go speed 4 if you have a 1 click side arc.

So for a medoum/long range ship does not like speed 4 as much as one would think. I found that out after playing with the Nebulon-B so much.

Possibly, but the speed 4 isn't necessarily used to "charge" head on. This is something I learned when learning to use the ISD in a low activation list. Head on charge = stupid suicide most of the time, even for an ISD. The REAL danger of a speed 4 front-arc battleship is flanking power when combined with good objective/obstacle placement. Also keep in mind the new rebel Admiral that could potentially turn a modest nav chart for a heavy ship into a 90 degree hook capable speed 4 flanker. Now THAT is scary!

Sure, it could have a 90 degree turn at speed 4 but it could have a WEIRD movement chart. Imagine a Speed chart at speed 3 that was 1, 1, 0. Or even 0, 2, 0. Imagine at speed 2 the ship is 0, 2. That would be a HUGE difrence from what we have and would affect how we look at the ship.

The main reason the VSD is hated is not because of its speed, it is because of its inability to turn properly. If the VSD had the yaw value of the MC80 it would be an AMAZING ship. Not just good as it is now.

Yeah but the VSD is significantly cheaper than the MC80, and also a medium base ship.

At speed 3 to claim the ship will have some irregular nav chart is a bit facetious. It would go against the entire design philosophy of the game so far.

A speed 3 Lib80 with -/||/- is frankly ridiculous, especially as a large base ship. Even at 1,1,0 (which is at least possible) with Madine and Nav dial and engine techs is could do a 1,1,2,?(min 1). I don't have a maneouver tool in front of me but i'm sure that starts to look frighteningly like a 90. On a large base ship. For potentially less points than an MC80H1...if the ship has speed 3 and ANY reasonable nav chart that has a total of 2 clicks on it plus engine techs it will have to cost more than an MC80 which brings it into ISD+ points territory.

I think with any amount of analysis based on extrapolating reasonable nav assignment from previous designs it's safe to bet that we are looking at a speed 2 ship that can equip engine techs but probably has 1 more click than the MC80 chart across both speeds

What information do you have that the rest of us do not?

What design philosophy have they shown that can hint to us what is or is not possible? Why would they not do something like that (0, 2, 0) on a nav chart if it meant that they can put speed 3 on a ship?

Why would ANY large ship or medium ship, heck even a small ship have a 1, 1, 0? Every ship in the game that can go speed 3 or better is 0, 1, 1 at the very minimum. I suspect that the different clicks at different points in the nav chart are worth more in the cost of a ship than most realize. Having an inherent click on the first node while going speed 3 would make the ship EXPENSIVE! While being the first time it has ever occurred.

Even if does go at speed 3 would it really be broken? or would it just be better than the ISD? Its got a lot side and rear to protect and that thing would be dead if got hit with a misaligned projector off an APT.

Got the last of my a-wing swarm to paint this weekend, I'll be hitting up both episodes for some goodness.

Awesome Gottmituns! please share some pictures with us when they are done!

Even if does go at speed 3 would it really be broken? or would it just be better than the ISD? Its got a lot side and rear to protect and that thing would be dead if got hit with a misaligned projector off an APT.

Exactly my point. Sure speed 4 is GREAT for a reposition but it is not the best idea on a fragile ship. This is why I never took Engine Techs on a Neb. I want to joust.

Got the last of my a-wing swarm to paint this weekend, I'll be hitting up both episodes for some goodness.

Awesome Gottmituns! please share some pictures with us when they are done!

Oh I will...one of the years I wanna kick it up in Richmond for a night of gaming with some proper carrier spam.

Got the last of my a-wing swarm to paint this weekend, I'll be hitting up both episodes for some goodness.

Awesome Gottmituns! please share some pictures with us when they are done!

Oh I will...one of the years I wanna kick it up in Richmond for a night of gaming with some proper carrier spam.

Carrier spam for life!

Given the MC30, Raider, and even Nebulon B's 'odd' max speed maneuverability, it's not inconceivable that the Liberty might get something novel like that too. It's an MC80 in general hull and size, but not in engines, weight, or role. Lore aside, it means they're not constrained to making it identical to the MC80 in any respect, and we see it already. Beyond the 8 Hull and large size, it's completely different. Yes, I still think that it's likely that it'll be speed 2 but I could see an odd speed 3. After all, the pseudo-speed 4 Nebulon B isn't exactly some monstrous killer either and it's put in the same position. Yes, the Liberty almost certainly has gunnery teams (I don't like making absolute statements, until I see the gunnery teams slot on the card, I'm being careful), which increases its potency as a tool of positional warfare. But there are a lot of great 'theory' ships out there that don't hold up quite as well in practice.

The Liberty to me has the hallmarks of a pocket battleship: it packs a punch and in theory can take one back, but it's not going to sustain firepower of any significant magnitude for as long as the first observers assumed it could. It's still got the side armour of a corvette and significantly less shield overall than its Home One counterpart. The double brace is exceptionally good, but its Redirect is a perfect target for defense killers. If you can outmaneuver that Liberty then it's in more danger than an ISD (It's got a slightly narrower front arc than an ISD, and it's side arcs are larger, though at the expense of its rear more than anything). Without that 4th natural defense, it has no redundancy to defense controllers like Intel, NK-7, or the myriad of damage effects swimming around out there. On an 8 hull ship vs. an Imperial 11 hull ship, and with less redundancy, it feels like a peak performance ship that needs a degree of heightened agility to survive when it over-extends itself past its preferred attack vector.

That's also something of a consideration. Like an ISD, the Liberty is a front-gun monster with a narrower firing arc. It has to keep up with its opponent and can't afford to overshoot its mark which gets more difficult the closer you get. With no black dice it has little incentive to close to short range. But if it's speed 3 it won't likely be slowing all that quickly either, it's the double-edged sword of a front loaded fast ship, isn't it?

In the end, I love this ship but I don't think it's an auto-include or proof of power creep (not that anyone is suggesting it is, just for the record).

I mean the ISD is speed 3 and has that much firepower. Is it also broken? I mean we have no idea how much this thing will cost yet.

ISD cannot equip Etechs. So no the Speed 3 on the ISD is not broken

I mean the ISD is speed 3 and has that much firepower. Is it also broken? I mean we have no idea how much this thing will cost yet.

ISD cannot equip Etechs. So no the Speed 3 on the ISD is not broken

Also, the Liberty doesn't have black dice... So, rushing into short range isn't as big of deal (and might be a bad thing). It's also not going to circle strafe, so that's not an issue either.

Having it chase down corvettes would be funny though.

I mean the ISD is speed 3 and has that much firepower. Is it also broken? I mean we have no idea how much this thing will cost yet.

ISD cannot equip Etechs. So no the Speed 3 on the ISD is not broken

Also, the Liberty doesn't have black dice... So, rushing into short range isn't as big of deal (and might be a bad thing). It's also not going to circle strafe, so that's not an issue either.

Having it chase down corvettes would be funny though.

We dont know what that other Liberty set up will have for dice.. So saying that it will not have Black dice is just not accurate. I would not be shocked if it is set up close to what the ISD isdice wise

How am I going to contain all these models?!????!!?

True Jpersons, there's still some interesting speculation about what the dice are going to be for the other. I mean, if they are following the Rebels usual method, either it could exchange a red for a blue (if this is the 'upgunned' Assault version compared to a stock 'star cruiser/command' variant) a la' the RAF and Home One.

It might be the precedent of course, by turning it like the 'Imperial' dice set we could see everything from the even spread ISD to the VSD style with the blues to black. Either way, this might be 'as good as it gets'.

How am I going to contain all these models?!????!!?

How am I going to contain all these models?!????!!?

True Jpersons, there's still some interesting speculation about what the dice are going to be for the other. I mean, if they are following the Rebels usual method, either it could exchange a red for a blue (if this is the 'upgunned' Assault version compared to a stock 'star cruiser/command' variant) a la' the RAF and Home One.

It might be the precedent of course, by turning it like the 'Imperial' dice set we could see everything from the even spread ISD to the VSD style with the blues to black. Either way, this might be 'as good as it gets'.

Does it have a lore with such weapons though?

I mean the ISD is speed 3 and has that much firepower. Is it also broken? I mean we have no idea how much this thing will cost yet.

ISD cannot equip Etechs. So no the Speed 3 on the ISD is not broken

Also, the Liberty doesn't have black dice... So, rushing into short range isn't as big of deal (and might be a bad thing). It's also not going to circle strafe, so that's not an issue either.

Having it chase down corvettes would be funny though.

We dont know what that other Liberty set up will have for dice.. So saying that it will not have Black dice is just not accurate. I would not be shocked if it is set up close to what the ISD isdice wise

True. I'd be surprised, but it could happen.

But going purely of the variant shown, I wouldn't want to charge into black dice range =)

How am I going to contain all these models?!????!!?

I SHOULD be good for wave 4. This assumes I buy 2 of each. Wave 5...well, I may need to get creative and redo my storage.

Good question. It would certainly make it quite different from the current Rebel stable of ships. Suddenly it's not just the Nebulon B's best mate, but the MC30 as well.

I don't know any of the major lore for it, at least none that I've seen in the games I've played or that old 90's technical manual. But I do remember them saying that the weapon battery 'pod/blisters' could be easily replaced with whatever was needed. I guess that gives them something of a free hand. Well, it would make gunnery teams vs. OE or the like quite an interesting conundrum.

So, with that in mind: any bets for what the other version is going to be?

So, with that in mind: any bets for what the other version is going to be?

Bloody Fantastic

Good question. It would certainly make it quite different from the current Rebel stable of ships. Suddenly it's not just the Nebulon B's best mate, but the MC30 as well.

I don't know any of the major lore for it, at least none that I've seen in the games I've played or that old 90's technical manual. But I do remember them saying that the weapon battery 'pod/blisters' could be easily replaced with whatever was needed. I guess that gives them something of a free hand. Well, it would make gunnery teams vs. OE or the like quite an interesting conundrum.

So, with that in mind: any bets for what the other version is going to be?

Ions and Heavy Turbolasers. So I expect the other version will be a Battle Carrier instead of a Battlecruiser.

EDIT: Remember that missiles and torpedoes will need storage, tubes to reload the Launchers, and launchers. So pods/blisters would make it hard to have such weapons since they would have to reconfigure vast sections.

I suspect a heavy blue variation.

True Jpersons, there's still some interesting speculation about what the dice are going to be for the other. I mean, if they are following the Rebels usual method, either it could exchange a red for a blue (if this is the 'upgunned' Assault version compared to a stock 'star cruiser/command' variant) a la' the RAF and Home One.

It might be the precedent of course, by turning it like the 'Imperial' dice set we could see everything from the even spread ISD to the VSD style with the blues to black. Either way, this might be 'as good as it gets'.

Trust me on the small table we fit 400+ point fleets on I do not want this thing to have black dice. 3x3 table (because of limited space) brings a whole lot of fire into range by turn 2 and by turn 3 anything with black dice is laying waste to the table. But it does make for some interesting set ups. I would be very very happy if it keeps the dice of the MC80