umm if you mean the high activation part I simply call it MSU if you mean the demo part I simply call it demo cause its nothing special and had been around since wave 1. Is the title good yup really good but the circle jerk that happened over someone putting ordinance and engine techs on it I still do not understand. What were you imperial players running on wave one? Sorry mini rant

Good to know. So what do you call a strat like the clonisher build?

Skewed.

Haha nevermind. Like I said, it sounds like we agree, just have a difference in terms.

I was just curious if there was a slang term in the tabletop world for the type of strategy I was describing. Since, according to you, cheese isn't that term.

Good to know. So what do you call a strat like the clonisher build?

Skewed.

This.

Just as triple Vic Rhymer Ball is equally skewed.

Interesting. Thanks for the education. For reference, this is what cheese means in Starcraft, which is pretty much exactly what Tirion was describing. hence the confusion: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cheese

yeah I thought you were just describing all our nothing strategies. Cheese to me is something broken, usually that shouldn't be. Other games have lots of cheese imo armada has none. I don't feel like what I have described is in that link. Cheese = overpowered undercosted netdecking.

Haha nevermind. Like I said, it sounds like we agree, just have a difference in terms.

I was just curious if there was a slang term in the tabletop world for the type of strategy I was describing. Since, according to you, cheese isn't that term.

Good to know. So what do you call a strat like the clonisher build?

Skewed.

This.

Just as triple Vic Rhymer Ball is equally skewed.

Also, ****. I'm currently playing with a triple vic rhymer ball.

nothing wrong with that! No cheese here

Good to know. So what do you call a strat like the clonisher build?

Skewed.

This.

Just as triple Vic Rhymer Ball is equally skewed.

Also, ****. I'm currently playing with a triple vic rhymer ball.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Everybody knows that the VSD is hopeless #sarcasm.

Also what is wrong with running legal lists? I find this lack of faith in the balance or Armada disturbing.

In my experience, the nature of cheese is that it's always easily beaten. Edit: if you know it's coming.

You should try it before calling it cheese.

It takes a lot of work and practice to make it work. Clontroper5 even admitted that he only had 3 games on a table top which is vastly different to Vassal in feel and movement.

It is less of a cheese build than you think. Coming from 40k back when a warcouncil of warlocks and the Eldar psykers HQ on jet bikes was a thing, I know cheese builds. Clontroper5's list is definitely not cheese.

This game is about skill, planning and play. Clontroper5 did not have the skill on the tabletop yesterday and it hurt him. Now he has learned better and will adjust accordingly.

In my experience, the nature of cheese is that it's always easily beaten. Edit: if you know it's coming.

You should try it before calling it cheese.

It takes a lot of work and practice to make it work. Clontroper5 even admitted that he only had 3 games on a table top which is vastly different to Vassal in feel and movement.

It is less of a cheese build than you think. Coming from 40k back when a warcouncil of warlocks and the Eldar psykers HQ on jet bikes was a thing, I know cheese builds. Clontroper5's list is definitely not cheese.

This game is about skill, planning and play. Clontroper5 did not have the skill on the tabletop yesterday and it hurt him. Now he has learned better and will adjust accordingly.

We've established I was working on a different definition of the term. I believe you that clon's build requires skill to execute.

In my experience, the nature of cheese is that it's always easily beaten. Edit: if you know it's coming.

You should try it before calling it cheese.

It takes a lot of work and practice to make it work. Clontroper5 even admitted that he only had 3 games on a table top which is vastly different to Vassal in feel and movement.

It is less of a cheese build than you think. Coming from 40k back when a warcouncil of warlocks and the Eldar psykers HQ on jet bikes was a thing, I know cheese builds. Clontroper5's list is definitely not cheese.

This game is about skill, planning and play. Clontroper5 did not have the skill on the tabletop yesterday and it hurt him. Now he has learned better and will adjust accordingly.

I was severely lacking in real table top experience and I knew it, I had said as much to several different people (lyr was one of them) and it showed, it came out in the form of several small misjudgments and tactical errors that I wouldn't have made on vassal. And my list being a Extremely unforgiving list made me pay steeply for every little error.

So knowimg some of the people running it. It sounds like they were informed by the venue that midnight wasnt gonna be a deadline for tournys. Then friday noght venue changed. That doesnt excuse the late start. They should of had sign ups end at like 3:45 so games could start on time. This is only the second year this con has run i think and could be a good thing for the PNW. That being said it was real nice getting to meet all of you in person.

With the new tournament schedule i wonder how that will affect the con in the future.

In my experience, the nature of cheese is that it's always easily beaten. Edit: if you know it's coming.

You should try it before calling it cheese.

It takes a lot of work and practice to make it work. Clontroper5 even admitted that he only had 3 games on a table top which is vastly different to Vassal in feel and movement.

It is less of a cheese build than you think. Coming from 40k back when a warcouncil of warlocks and the Eldar psykers HQ on jet bikes was a thing, I know cheese builds. Clontroper5's list is definitely not cheese.

This game is about skill, planning and play. Clontroper5 did not have the skill on the tabletop yesterday and it hurt him. Now he has learned better and will adjust accordingly.

pretty much this

I was severely lacking in real table top experience and I knew it, I had said as much to several different people (lyr was one of them) and it showed, it came out in the form of several small misjudgments and tactical errors that I wouldn't have made on vassal. And my list being a Extremely unforgiving list made me pay steeply for every little error.

I also wouldnt call it a cheese list. So im about to make some assumptions here but id guess people were much more caught off guard by his list when he won the vassel tourny. In turn this made people learn how to fly and build against it. By no means am i saying that he couldnt have won the tourny, he easily could. I guess what im getting at is there are no cheese lists in armada, yet. I feel there is a counter to everything for now.

These forums make me bang my head against a desk sometimes. Everybody's responding to a non-existent claim.

These forums make me bang my head against a desk sometimes. Everybody's responding to a non-existent claim.

So i apologize ive got 18 hrs of sleep since wed morning. Was trying to be critical of you. Missed page 5 of this thread somehow.

These forums make me bang my head against a desk sometimes. Everybody's responding to a non-existent claim.

Ugghhh as tirion i say this all the time and now ive just done it. I dont even know who i am anymore. Smh

Haha, it's cool dude. No sweat.

When you run a cheese build, you're putting yourself open to the whims of dice.

What cheese build?

I for one never had dice issues. It game down to experience. ArmadaJim did something I had not experience against and now I know how to counter it. I even showed him roughly how it would have gone and he agreed.

Clon had an average day I think. That was all. His first round opponent also did a mistake that turned out to help him and that was when his Raider rimmed his ISD putting the Raider in a blocking path of Clon's Demolisher.

I was that opponent. Ramming my ISD was not a mistake, actually. I intentionally did that to keep the Raider in a blocking position, thought of that as I was looking at the maneuver template to move said Raider. I thought to myself, I really don't want to move from where I was, so I rammed to stay where I was. Sacrificed the Raider to save the ISD.

Got around to typing up a quick AAR for the tournament over at my blog:

I had a great time at the regionals, and I got my dice, which was my "go home happy" level. I'm going to be making a mini-episode of Fire When Ready to talk about it, but here's some brief takeaways.

The staff and TO were great, and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt by the venue staff. Hopefully next time they'll listen to me and Mikael about starting earlier!

My list was a fairly kitted out MC80, an MC30 Scout, and a CR90B, along with Tycho, Han, Dash, Keyan, and Nym, commanded by Rieekan.

I took my bye in the first round, then played Lyraeus in the 2nd. I'd practiced pretty extensively against his DtO list as well as the Clonisher using Vassal so I could get my blocking placements down. I fully intended to use the 30 and the corvette as sacrifice plays to keep his ships at bay while I whittled down his activation advantage. Even with all that practice, it didn't work! But I was able to use Advanced Gunnery on my 80 to full effect and got the win.

I then faced another Store Champ who'd use their bye that I talked with a fair amount during our 1st round layover. He's a very nice guy from Spokane named... I want to say Cole? (It's Clontrooper's neck of the woods, and I didn't write it down and am terrible about remembering such things). His list was an ISD2, Demolisher, and a Fireball.

He played his list excellently, exactly the way I would've. I made a couple of mistakes, but even so if my dice were just a little hotter I would've come out on top. His Demolisher ended up surviving 3 rounds of fire from my MC80, two of which were side arcs. That survival threw off my strategy just enough that the only thing I ended up pulling down of his was a single TIE Advanced giving him a 9-1. Extra frustrating was that both of his ships had just one hull left on them! ARGH!

Closest 9-1 defeat I've ever had, probably ever seen. I wish him luck if he gets out to Worlds, and in six months time I'll be back in the hunt.

And it was wonderful to meet and put names to faces for the Portland crowd!

yup Cole is correct!

I had a great time at the regionals, and I got my dice, which was my "go home happy" level.

16 points. . . .

I took my bye in the first round, then played Lyraeus in the 2nd. I'd practiced pretty extensively against his DtO list as well as the Clonisher using Vassal so I could get my blocking placements down. I fully intended to use the 30 and the corvette as sacrifice plays to keep his ships at bay while I whittled down his activation advantage. Even with all that practice, it didn't work! But I was able to use Advanced Gunnery on my 80 to full effect and got the win.

My blunders! I know the counter now! It should not happen again!

Blocking an experienced user of the maneuver tool is hard with small ships. We get into very tight spaces.

Jim, Lyr- Who chose Advanced Gunnery as the objective? I'm curious about the reasoning behind that, if you don't mind discussing it.

Jim, Lyr- Who chose Advanced Gunnery as the objective? I'm curious about the reasoning behind that, if you don't mind discussing it.

I choose it.

It is actually a smart play that I do often enough. I tend to fence with big ships by staying at long range and then rushing in at the end of the turn and rushing out at the start of the next turn. It also throws my opponents off and that can cause a mistake. Many people fear Advanced Gunnery and while it is strong, Red dice are fickle (i still advocate to change ficklegreendice's name!) and so when even I do take a great show my evades and redirects can help me survive the turn.

The goal for objective selection for me is to make more points than I lose. It normally works but in this game I mis-deployed leaving Admonition out for several turns and while I got a MC30 in to hit at the MC80, His Lando did his job EXCEPTIONALLY well which I expected to happen (it is why I shot with the side arc first to force Lando). After that I moved just a touch wrong and that caused me to take a double medium shot to the rear of the MC30. It was down hill from there.

In the end, ArmadaJim out played me but I formed a counter to the tactic and even went over it with him so now I at least have a better chance of handling the situation.