You do not think that players can have a legitimate basis to question the level of profit that an event host selected by FFG profits from hosting the event?

No, I don't think "I want to pay less for a particular luxury good" is a legitimate basis for complaint.

Is that what the OP said? You read the first post of the thread and that is honestly what you took from it?

Yes.

I don't know what you deal is, but mischaracterizing things has no value in a discussion, particularly when that mischaracterization is completely transparent.

I don't know what your deal is, either, and it would be rude to speculate. However, I've noted repeatedly that you seem entirely blind to subtext, don't appear to grasp the concepts of summary and paraphrase, and tend to mistake rhetorical devices for literalism.

You, literally in the same response, just stated that volume is a factor in achieving change and that a quiet word with the store owner would better serve the OP. Hopefully you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and do not think that makes sense.

Getting the attention of a relatively large corporation by joining a crowd of people who are already shouting is different from getting the attention of a small business by reaching out to the proprietor directly. It's a matter of signal-to-noise ratio. I'm not sure why you think there's a contradiction there.

Omg such entitlement in this thread. No wonder game stores go out business. Gamers seriously may be the worst type of customer ever. Why should you expect a store give out more than what is in the kit? If you want the prizes then make it into the top 16. If you didn't get what you want then play better.

I can't think of a single tournament I've been to that didn't make its prize structure clear. Is that not how it's done in the States? And even if It isn't, if you think the entry fee of a tournament is steep how hard is it to drop the organisers an email to find out what the prize support will be?

So long as you know in advance what the prize support is going to be, it's entirely up to individual players to decide which tournaments are "worth" going to and which aren't. And contrariwise, it's entirely down to the organisers what they charge and what prizes they offer. Passive-aggressive sniping after the fact doesn't seem terribly productive.

Seems to me that you pay your money and really your only expectation should be a number of games with some fun competition.

I can get that for free though.

Omg such entitlement in this thread. No wonder game stores go out business. Gamers seriously may be the worst type of customer ever. Why should you expect a store give out more than what is in the kit? If you want the prizes then make it into the top 16. If you didn't get what you want then play better.

You're totally right. How dare I consider how I spend my money. Shame! Shame on me!

Getting the attention of a relatively large corporation by joining a crowd of people who are already shouting is different from getting the attention of a small business by reaching out to the proprietor directly. It's a matter of signal-to-noise ratio. I'm not sure why you think there's a contradiction there.

And how does one join a crowd without that crowd first being started? You are criticizing the start of a discussion for not being a movement. That is the contradiction.

every once a while I come check out some thread on this forum and it basically runs like this:

1. somebody expresses some concern

2. bunch of people tell him it's not cool to post his concerns

I am glad these people did not draft the US constitution or we wouldn't have a 1st amendment.

sure, not all concerns are valid. and sure, it's nice to be positive and not focus on the negatives. but people are free to express concerns, and it can lead to positive changes, clarifications, and so on.

Getting the attention of a relatively large corporation by joining a crowd of people who are already shouting is different from getting the attention of a small business by reaching out to the proprietor directly. It's a matter of signal-to-noise ratio. I'm not sure why you think there's a contradiction there.

And how does one join a crowd without that crowd first being started? You are criticizing the start of a discussion for not being a movement. That is the contradiction.

But it's not a large corporation we're talking about, is it? It's a small business that the feedback should be going to. If you were dissatisfied with something, posting it on a board that the store owner may very well never read isn't particularly useful feedback.

every once a while I come check out some thread on this forum and it basically runs like this:

1. somebody expresses some concern

2. bunch of people tell him it's not cool to post his concerns

I am glad these people did not draft the US constitution or we wouldn't have a 1st amendment.

sure, not all concerns are valid. and sure, it's nice to be positive and not focus on the negatives. but people are free to express concerns, and it can lead to positive changes, clarifications, and so on.

I don't see much in the way of people telling him it's not cool to post his concerns. I see a lot of people saying that his concerns are unfounded or that there is a more productive way to provide feedback to a small business than going to the Internet and complaining.

really wouldnt call that a store profit. Thats a lot of work to put on an event at all let alone one that big.

I willingly pay a bit more than i know i can get away with online to support my FLGS. Its not only the only one that isnt a POS in the wall of some random building, its also owned by pretty good people. Im surprised they only ask $5 when we do a local tourny for about ~20 people.

Hi folks,

I attended the regional in question this past weekend - I've been lurking on these forums for roughly a year but I wanted to take the time to finally post a reply.

People travel to tournaments for several reasons... And one of those is the chance to win glorious prizes. If someone is traveling from out of town or out of state this is often compounded. The TO of the event posted confirming the store was wanting to make as much money as possible and provided reasons as to why - thank you for that.

However, many folks simply won't attend future events that state "we are here to make as much money off your attending of the event." There is a happy medium.

Wholesale on FFG is roughly 50% retail (maybe less.) If the organizer of an event gave out ~50% of their incoming funds as prizes or store credit then the store

Would roughly give away ~25% of the money taken in and the player base would be getting the "glorious prizes" they are seeking. The math does not lie.

It is understood that running an event costs money... That folks, is the cost of doing business. If you cannot afford to take a hit on your normal day to day operations then you might want to step aside so another venue who would be willing to take the hit can run the event. Stating that pocketing the cash is the only way to run things simply is not fair to those who spend HUNDREDS just to attend. I can tell you as someone who traveled over 900 miles to attend ...I will not attend in the future if 'making all the monies' is the M.O. ...I know I'm not alone.

The happy medium keeps the store making money for the event and appeases people who attend. Custom acrylics are cool but a small token (pardon the pun) in the scheme of things. If I had received store credit I would be forced to spend it at the store... Spending my money on retail products... Also likely spending more than I received in the credit to cover additional costs. This costs the store roughly 25% of what they give out (ex they give out $30 in ISC and I spend it on stuff that cost them $15 wholesale.)

I can ramble on, and I hope my point hit home. The event was fun but the happy medium for prize support was NOT met... And can (and should) be addressed prior to running events in he future.

Thanks,

Jon

My credentials: For years, I ran easily one of the largest game stores in my state. My annual sales rivaled that of non-Mcdonalds fast food joint. Sales were in the tank when I took over the store. The two previous managers had alienated alot of people with things like pricing Magic cards solely off what he thought they were worth, not the going price, and things like having Sunday be dedicated to a certain game, and then kicking those players out 2-3 times a month to run other events all day. First thing I did was just start treating my gamers with respect. In three months I went from 3rd (out of 4) in sales to 1st. I was never not first in sales and profit margin for the chain I was part of my entire time as manager.

Most tournaments I ran I charged nothing and still gave away prize support. Even large events where I had to rent the Legion Hall (40K events) I gave away every ounce of money I could in gift cards (remembering that gift cards usually only cost a store 50% of their value). If hosted a $25 tournament and only gave away the stuff you could get at the same tournament run for $10 down the street, I would have been run outta town. We had a competing large game store one block away on the same road. It had a much larger gaming space, nice new tables & chairs (ours weren't bad, just not new and fancy), but they charged for events I ran for free, and still gave out less prize support. They went out of business along with the other 3-4 stores in town that tried and failed. 2-3 pieces of pizza and a soda run about $2 per person. Just doing that would have probably quelled this discussion before it even started.

Part of the problem is the exclusivity of the regional events. If this were a Store Championship event and you paid $25 to get in, but got almost nothing, but the guy running a SC event next week on the other side of town charged $25 and gave all the final round winners the play mat they were using, you can bet your bottom dollar I know which store would have better attendance next year. More regional events nationwide would quickly cull the herd of stores that don't run events up to player's satisfaction. If a store has to basically shut down to run an event this size, they either need to not run the event, or move it to another location. I've done that plenty of times.

I think people stating their displeasure with how events were run and how prizes were handled is extremely important so that FFG knows. These stores are official ambassadors of FFG, and FFG deserves the right to know how their game is being represented. I think stating it here is a fine way to warn people that certain venues are not as desirable of locations to attend events at than others.

Why would you expect anything more than what comes in the Official FFG Prize Kit? The TO even went beyond that and got enough extra Promo cards so their would be no Top 64 cut-off. Something I'm sure 65 thru 112 was really stoked about.

Add to it a pile of cards from previous Minor kits as the crash prize and quite a few Store Credit prizes randomly given out at the end of the night. NONE of which was required nor asked for by FFG. FFG mandates the Event Prize Kit...and nothing else.

Anything that an Organizer can or will give beyond the Kit is pure Bonus and is likely driven by what's left after the cost of the event. I doubt the TO and store owner raked in a wad of cash and bought a new Mercedes Monday morning. And lets be honest...without people putting their and their families financial life on the line to open and operate a FLGS we the player would still be relegated to garages, basements, and kitchen tables and these events would be non-existent outside the occasional big convention. So if a store is going to close down on a Payday Saturday to host a single event, the least we should expect is for the owner to get a cut to cover his expenses. X-Wing is one of those events where players show up with everything they need to play. No one walks in hoping to buy a new B-Wing so he can play Panic Attack. So the purchases from these events are pretty slim.

As for food (and I've been to some game stores where food is absolutely forbidden), the TO let everyone know at the start the lunch status, gave an hour (plus whatever time you had after your round), and even provided online maps to a lot of food joints all within 15 minutes away. This was also explained in the FB posts for the event. This should not have been a surprise to anyone. I even saw maps posted to the local hotels all about 5 minutes away for those who planned overnighters.

Until you've done the TO thing and set up an event like this and figured out what extra prize support you can provide vs costs of running the event along with the Logistics of every persons needs/wants...Complaining is easy.

I think people stating their displeasure with how events were run and how prizes were handled is extremely important so that FFG knows. These stores are official ambassadors of FFG, and FFG deserves the right to know how their game is being represented. I think stating it here is a fine way to warn people that certain venues are not as desirable of locations to attend events at than others.

Just curious, does anyone know what sort of prize support FFG had at Worlds? As far as I know it was the official FFG prizes that they announced and nothing more. That tournament cost $60 to play in.

A store that is giving out hundreds of dollars in additional prizes and store credit is a much better ambassadors for the brand than the company's flagship tournament by your logic but we've got people crapping on them for not being generous enough with their prize pool.

I think people stating their displeasure with how events were run and how prizes were handled is extremely important so that FFG knows. These stores are official ambassadors of FFG, and FFG deserves the right to know how their game is being represented. I think stating it here is a fine way to warn people that certain venues are not as desirable of locations to attend events at than others.

Just curious, does anyone know what sort of prize support FFG had at Worlds? As far as I know it was the official FFG prizes that they announced and nothing more. That tournament cost $60 to play in.

A store that is giving out hundreds of dollars in additional prizes and store credit are much better ambassadors for the brand than the company's flagship tournament but we've got people crapping on them for not being generous enough with their prize pool.

Well then, people should also disclose their displeasure with worlds prize support if they feel so.

All I'm thinking of is that FFG may want to up the 64 copies card. Regionals are quickly going past that number.

Did the TO run a sh*tty tournament? Was there corruption in the pairings or favoritism shown in judgements that were made? Did the TO deviate wildly, with no prior notice, from the Tournament Regulations? Those are the sort of things to complain to FFG about. Not giving a level of extra swag that a player feels that he's entitled might be good feedback to the store owner but it's not a valid beef to take to FFG.

To top it off the OP was wrong about the prize support at the tournament. The tournament winner confirmed that he got store credit and that to his knowledge other top placing players did as well.

All I'm thinking of is that FFG may want to up the 64 copies card. Regionals are quickly going past that number.

FFG has stopped calling them "participation prizes". They are now called "top 64 prizes".

And the TO made the extra effort to ensure that EVERY participant received the Hera promo prize. That's a level of thoughtfulness that wouldn't occur to most.

Seems to me that you pay your money and really your only expectation should be a number of games with some fun competition.

I can get that for free though.

But you can't get the experience of playing and chatting with THE best players in your Region for free. We had 4 of the 16 Worlds top finishers competing and sharing, along with heavy hitters from the Bay to Central Valley to the Southland to Phoenix and beyond. If you're a casual player, that doesn't matter. For a guy like me who had committed to competition this year, the cost of travel and entry was a bargain .

Regionals are a big jingleblasting deal, and the opportunity to pick their brains and witness different philosophies, builds, and playstyles is the priceless door prize I walk away with from every event. Can't get that for free.

It depends on the store. I've attended a Spring event where only four people showed up, so the store basically ate the cost of the kit. On the other hand, the last 30-man SC I went to the store had hourly door prizes (Star Wars comics and a couple of ships) and everyone above 16 got a Range 1 ruler branded with the store's name. Both cost 10 bucks (and the 4 person tourney the store actually refunded our money due to lack of players, even though we played and got kit prizes). Was one better than the other, not really. Both were very fun and both were a good value.

25 dollars seems like a pretty high price point with no material payout, but you have to look at it in terms of time of entertainment. If I get 25 bucks worth of movie tickets, that's anywhere from 2-4 tickets, depending on matinee and such. That is roughly 5-9 hours of movie, whereas you are getting about 8 hours of X-wing. So for me, even if I don't get a prize, I've got my moneys worth of enjoyable time.

I think people stating their displeasure with how events were run and how prizes were handled is extremely important so that FFG knows. These stores are official ambassadors of FFG, and FFG deserves the right to know how their game is being represented. I think stating it here is a fine way to warn people that certain venues are not as desirable of locations to attend events at than others.

Just curious, does anyone know what sort of prize support FFG had at Worlds? As far as I know it was the official FFG prizes that they announced and nothing more. That tournament cost $60 to play in.

A store that is giving out hundreds of dollars in additional prizes and store credit is a much better ambassadors for the brand than the company's flagship tournament by your logic but we've got people crapping on them for not being generous enough with their prize pool.

Just wanted to share that since you asked and there is more to it than just the kit for games played in. Otherwise I'm in the camp that thinks this thread was the wrong way to try and get results, nor do I think it's a complaint that will get anywhere since there's nothing wrong with what the store did.

I was there that weekend and I felt that the store was kind enough let us play. From a monetary/businesses sense they were basically shut down except for the x-wing players. I saw at least two family's with small kids walk in and turn around deterred by the large amount of people in the store (keep in mind it is a large store). I think that if the store was able to recuperate any money at all they deserve it. They had 3 TO's the 1st day and they all did a very good job of managing so many people. Check in and registration was done quickly and professionally.

The idea that a store should run a Regional and not make a profit is just asinine.

They are likely extending thier hours, bringing in extra staff, suspending other events, and largely presenting themselves as closed to the public. All for a group of players that is largely not locally, unlikely to return to the store except for events, and ultimately not likely to purchase anything.

Running an event like this costs the store money, having enough space to run an event this size costs money, suspending other events (likely involving local players that spend money in the store) costs money, losing a day of sales cost money. Even if the store keeps the entirety of the entrance fee it is ignorant to assert that all of that is profit. You have to cover all of your costs before you even see profit.

More over why shouldn't a venue see profit from running an event? It isn't like wrangling a 100 players throughout a 12 hour day is an easy afternoon in the park. Businesses put on events to make money. If the store just wanted to do some marketing they'd just hold an event for local players, the ones that likely spend money in the store, and they could do without having to shut down the venue for other business.

The idea that a store should run a Regional and not make a profit is just asinine.

They are likely extending thier hours, bringing in extra staff, suspending other events, and largely presenting themselves as closed to the public. All for a group of players that is largely not locally, unlikely to return to the store except for events, and ultimately not likely to purchase anything.

Running an event like this costs the store money, having enough space to run an event this size costs money, suspending other events (likely involving local players that spend money in the store) costs money, losing a day of sales cost money. Even if the store keeps the entirety of the entrance fee it is ignorant to assert that all of that is profit. You have to cover all of your costs before you even see profit.

More over why shouldn't a venue see profit from running an event? It isn't like wrangling a 100 players throughout a 12 hour day is an easy afternoon in the park. Businesses put on events to make money. If the store just wanted to do some marketing they'd just hold an event for local players, the ones that likely spend money in the store, and they could do without having to shut down the venue for other business.

There is a happy medium that was not met but a seemingly large (or at least vocal) part of the population. Please see my reply listed earlier on this page ...it was stuck waiting for mod approval and got buried as a result.

And I was from out of state... And tried to buy product... And was unable to due to the store not having stock. Unless there was a huge rush the stock on ships were roughly one each and some not at all.

Jon