Got to top 16 (7th spot at end of Swiss), but was noticing some wasted points, was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for improvement.

OGP w/ Palp

OL w/ Comm Relay & Juke

Whisper w/ ACD, VI, FCS, and Gunner

I've seen a Yorr variant, but I tend to run the shuttle away in MOST match ups in this meta, so I don't see Yorr working for me.

The real waste of points, as far as I could tell, was Gunner. Normally LOVE Buzzsaw Whisper, I either ran into low-to-no agility ships, OR was landing 1 hit minimum on even higher agility ship.

I think I had one match where Gunner triggered?

Is Kallus the next best option for Phantom crew? If so, what do I use the extra three points on (I'm very comfortable with a single point bid, don't think I need to exceed that)? SD on OL?

I spent almost all of my matches running OL away, as soon as my opponent began targeting the TIE/fo. It was surprisingly effective bait. An SD or HU might help work towards that.

There are a lot of little tweaks that can fit in this list, though not much in any major fashion -- does anything have any ideas that I should try out? I'd appreciate any and all dialogue.

Agent Kallus is, by far, the new "hotness" with Whisper. Now, here's the trick. Whatever you mark with Kallus, unless its your best/only shot, don't shoot at it. Use it for later in the game. Much like how Omega Leader becomes more powerful the longer the match goes on, Kallus gets more powerful the longer the game goes on. Remember, that you can get an evade with it as well as that hit.

Finally, and here's the best part. OGP+Emp, Whisper +Kallus, FCS,VI,ACD, OL + Juke, Comm Relay = 96 points. That gives you either a 4 point initiative bid, the option to upgrade to Yorr, or even add a Stealth Device to Omega Leader.

Getting Gunner to trigger on a 4AD Primary is always going to be challenging. It is great for those odd occasions where you can burn through Soontir's token stack but is overkill against the majority of targets (I prefer Gunner on a DeciVader). On the other hand, Gunner insulates the Phantom's initial attack on a particular target against its lack of TL.

Kallus is the new black but I haven't seen him used enough to form an opinion of how effective he is. He certainly looks good on paper and with 4 red and (often) 4 greens, he should provide ample scope for flipping Focus results. Of course he works well against a single good target but helps somewhat less against swarms.

My thoughts as someone who saw that list form the other side of the table

Yorr may be a good upgrade against PS3 (or PS4 with initiative bid) lists as this way the shuttle is deployed after your opponent (as well as shooting first which shouldn't be discounted)

Keep in mind that part of the Gunner utility is in the threat that it represents and it doesn't need to trigger to alter your opponent decisions (for example, if I will take 1 hit and can spend a defence or focus token to avoid it, I'm likely to take the hit to avoid a FCS/Gunner attack on a tokenless ship). Essentially Whisper with Gunner looks far more threatening.

As far as Omega leader goes, I agree that it doesn't synergize well with the list (as he is better in a late game and you need a good early game ship).

One possibility that I see is to get Wampa and Academy pilot instead.

I like Intelligence Agent on whisper. I get to see where your moving before I decloak? Yes please

My thoughts as someone who saw that list form the other side of the table

Yorr may be a good upgrade against PS3 (or PS4 with initiative bid) lists as this way the shuttle is deployed after your opponent (as well as shooting first which shouldn't be discounted)

Keep in mind that part of the Gunner utility is in the threat that it represents and it doesn't need to trigger to alter your opponent decisions (for example, if I will take 1 hit and can spend a defence or focus token to avoid it, I'm likely to take the hit to avoid a FCS/Gunner attack on a tokenless ship). Essentially Whisper with Gunner looks far more threatening.

As far as Omega leader goes, I agree that it doesn't synergize well with the list (as he is better in a late game and you need a good early game ship).

One possibility that I see is to get Wampa and Academy pilot instead.

For the points, I don't think placing after some lists helps me with the shuttle -- I do not mind opponents having to react to my bland corner placement, and it gives me enough options to try and flee or turn in and fight/run the other way, if I have to.

And the Gunner threat is absolutely real, but, in our match, I was tagging you with one damage ANYWAYS, you never had to make the decision of "take 1 damage or a Gunner shot", and that was repeated in all but one of my other games this weekend. It's too high a price (opinion) for limited insurance/infrequent threat. When it triggers, it is a godsend, especially with Whisper's inherent ability, but Kallus honestly would have gotten one more point of damage through several times (on your list, it would have been a harder choice, but I would have dropped Kallus on your generic bomber, to try and mitigate your torpedo threat, I think). AND then Kallus would have provided some additional defense (probably more often by causing the opponent to look elsewhere for a shot).

I actually liked OL has the bait -- in our game, I had OL in arc of one ship and he had an Evade Token, an Obstruction (I think?), and Palpatine in reserve. I just happened to roll all blanks/eyeballs on BOTH Cluster Missile shots -- it was an absolute worst case scenario from me, and shouldn't happen often. Had OL survived, he would have either drawn more shots (which was effective in previous matches), or doubled back to hand out some damage (a little more likely, as he would have been behind and you'd have to choose to split fire or focus on Whisper/Shuttle).

I valued OL FAR more as a deterrent than a damage dealer except for the round where OL and the Shuttle tabled Vader/Soontir/Palpy after a bad round one of combat saw Whisper dead.

... But, yes, green dice fail and I should never rely on them, so OL is an option for adjustment in the list.

Wampa is too fragile, IMO, for his actual threat -- some lists are terrified of him, most could honestly care less -- I'm not likely to get more than one shot on your list, for example, before you nuke him -- he's no Arc Dodger.

I like Intelligence Agent on whisper. I get to see where your moving before I decloak? Yes please

I thought about IA for awhile, or even Advanced Sensors, but I honestly don't think there was more than two scenarios I encountered where I couldn't predict the opponent enough to have Whisper's de-cloak at least get a shot. I suffered most because I've not practiced Whisper, so a couple of the de-cloaks wound me up in awkward spots post-maneuver. A bit more practice and even that shouldn't be the case (unintentionally).

This isn't a humble brag -- Whisper has a fantastic dial. A barrel roll and hard turn can be crazy hard to block, especially when she's able to keep her decloak options open.

My thoughts as someone who saw that list form the other side of the table

Yorr may be a good upgrade against PS3 (or PS4 with initiative bid) lists as this way the shuttle is deployed after your opponent (as well as shooting first which shouldn't be discounted)

Keep in mind that part of the Gunner utility is in the threat that it represents and it doesn't need to trigger to alter your opponent decisions (for example, if I will take 1 hit and can spend a defence or focus token to avoid it, I'm likely to take the hit to avoid a FCS/Gunner attack on a tokenless ship). Essentially Whisper with Gunner looks far more threatening.

As far as Omega leader goes, I agree that it doesn't synergize well with the list (as he is better in a late game and you need a good early game ship).

One possibility that I see is to get Wampa and Academy pilot instead.

For the points, I don't think placing after some lists helps me with the shuttle -- I do not mind opponents having to react to my bland corner placement, and it gives me enough options to try and flee or turn in and fight/run the other way, if I have to.

And the Gunner threat is absolutely real, but, in our match, I was tagging you with one damage ANYWAYS, you never had to make the decision of "take 1 damage or a Gunner shot", and that was repeated in all but one of my other games this weekend. It's too high a price (opinion) for limited insurance/infrequent threat. When it triggers, it is a godsend, especially with Whisper's inherent ability, but Kallus honestly would have gotten one more point of damage through several times (on your list, it would have been a harder choice, but I would have dropped Kallus on your generic bomber, to try and mitigate your torpedo threat, I think). AND then Kallus would have provided some additional defense (probably more often by causing the opponent to look elsewhere for a shot).

I actually liked OL has the bait -- in our game, I had OL in arc of one ship and he had an Evade Token, an Obstruction (I think?), and Palpatine in reserve. I just happened to roll all blanks/eyeballs on BOTH Cluster Missile shots -- it was an absolute worst case scenario from me, and shouldn't happen often. Had OL survived, he would have either drawn more shots (which was effective in previous matches), or doubled back to hand out some damage (a little more likely, as he would have been behind and you'd have to choose to split fire or focus on Whisper/Shuttle).

I valued OL FAR more as a deterrent than a damage dealer except for the round where OL and the Shuttle tabled Vader/Soontir/Palpy after a bad round one of combat saw Whisper dead.

... But, yes, green dice fail and I should never rely on them, so OL is an option for adjustment in the list.

Wampa is too fragile, IMO, for his actual threat -- some lists are terrified of him, most could honestly care less -- I'm not likely to get more than one shot on your list, for example, before you nuke him -- he's no Arc Dodger.

I agree about Yorr, the upgrade doesn't give you much and may be worth it only if you have extra points or in a specific meta. It wouldn't be my first choice.

I think Kallus is great for his points, I've used him many times on RAC.

If you put him on Whisper and have the extra points, you could add Shield Upgrade to Palp.

The reason you put Gunner on Whisper in today's meta is to give you a hope in hell against the crackswarm. Without Gunner, this list pretty much gets murdered by crackswarm. Gunner at least gives you a fighting chance (Gunner is best against 3 agility targets). Don't forget to EVADE with Whisper (especially against crack swarm, where Whisper can die very fast if you're not careful...)

Kallus is also good, but it excels vs other ace lists mainly (which you already have Omega Leader as an answer to, so don't really need Kallus for). Gunner is very strong against most Palp Ace lists, also strong against crack swarms, and its not terrible against triple jumps. So really, it seems like a good choice these days...

The reason you put Gunner on Whisper in today's meta is to give you a hope in hell against the crackswarm. Without Gunner, this list pretty much gets murdered by crackswarm. Gunner at least gives you a fighting chance (Gunner is best against 3 agility targets).

The reason you put Gunner on Whisper in today's meta is to give you a hope in hell against the crackswarm. Without Gunner, this list pretty much gets murdered by crackswarm. Gunner at least gives you a fighting chance (Gunner is best against 3 agility targets).

How does Gunner help particularly against swarm lists? Obviously there is always the chance of whiffing your attack dice but I had assumed the primary benefit of Gunner was to help nail slippery aces after they had expended tokens warding off your initial volley.

Because TIE swarms are similar to aces----all their defense is in the greens and gunner increases the odds of pushing damage through. The faster you kill them, the sooner you get to that point where they are no longer capable of killing whisper (when like 2 or 3 left with crackshot spent).

And gunner gives you the greater guarantee of having both focus + evade token for defense against return fire (making it very difficult to damage whisper, except through crackshot).

Edit: although with Palpatine, there's a good argument AGAINST gunner (since if you're using Palp for an extra crit on Whisper's shot, less likely that Gunner will trigger). Conversely, you can look at it as being more 'reliably' able to save Palp either for defense or for Omega Leader's shot (since gunner pretty much ensures Whisper always hits at least for 1 damage).

I agree about Yorr, the upgrade doesn't give you much and may be worth it only if you have extra points or in a specific meta. It wouldn't be my first choice.

The Gunner threat forced me to fly less aggressively as I knew that any ship that ended up in the arc is guaranteed to take at least 1. Is it worth extra points over Kallus? I don't know, I don't have enough experience with either option.

If you're using OL as a bait then it's worth keeping, He's very good in that role as people know to try to kill him first. (Although in our game you needed to roll at least two natural evades on every roll to keep him alive (Juke), however my list is not a common scenario). I threw in Wampa/Academy idea as a part of brainstorming given Wampa/Emperor synergy. However, OL is a hard counter for Vader, so thats an extra argument to keep him there (and if you downgrade Gunner to Kallus, you can add Stealth Device to OL)

Also, if you don't mind me asking. where do you usually play?

I'm actually local to the Plainville store (where we played), and usually play there or in Boston (though only rarely, as it's annoying to go into the city on a weekend after working there all week).

And thanks all for the comments in this thread. Mostly, it's the same discussion I've been having with myself since I had to decide which list to actually submit. It may just be that I'll of my matches were especially lucky with NOT benefiting from Gunner -- I certainly didn't run into any swarms this weekend.

And thanks all for the comments in this thread. Mostly, it's the same discussion I've been having with myself since I had to decide which list to actually submit. It may just be that I'll of my matches were especially lucky with NOT benefiting from Gunner -- I certainly didn't run into any swarms this weekend.

Its possible people don't run swarms much (if at all in your area). If that's the case, you don't really need gunner. Of course, that's assuming that going with Kallus means the 3 points saved can get you something even more useful (personally I don't see Yorr as being that great in the current meta, although Sensor Jammer is not a bad idea but you have to sacrifice an initiative bid to get it....)

I tried to run phantoms yesterday (my first time running them) and two cards that are potentially good are Sensor Jammer (good overall and perfect against TLT lists and unfocused ordnance shots) and Rebel Captive (double-stressed Soontir, prevents enemy Whisper from recloaking)

Another good possibility is Navigator (as the main tactic against the Phantom is to force it to bump)

(Yes, these are the same stores I usually play at as well, though it's mainly Boston on Mondays and Plainville on Thursdays for me, it's much harder to guess in there will be an opponent or not on the weekend)