I'm GMing a session tomorrow and I need a clue that describes the planet Tatoonine and specifically the Dune Sea on it. The group should find a buried starship in the sands. The clue I'm giving them is the coordinates on the planet and a riddle to narrow down which planet. They will have their Jedi mentor with them. In case they can't figure it out exactly, he should be able to nudge them in the right direction.

"An ocean of brown

That can not quench a thirst

Protected by 2 Lords

Watching over ever day"

That's all I have. I don't like it. I'm looking for you're Dune Sea riddles or help!

PS I'm also trying to remember if stun weapons (stun setting on blaster, stun grenades, fists) go thru Soak?

Your riddle sounds ok.

I have always found it a very slippery slope when trying to give adventures some fun real world pep. Is the game about your Players, or their Characters? Should the challenges rely on the skills of the Characters, or that of the Players. I know I know nothing about Astrogation, Melee fighting, or skullduggery. But the skills I do have, don't matter to the game.

So I'm not saying don't do this, just if it is major plot point, it shouldn't hinge on this riddle. And if you are that worried about it, having your Group Mentor solve it for them is beyond worthless. It is my opinion, that when GMs present a challenge, the players can't defeat it, then have thier favorite NPC do it is rather bad. It makes me as a player and character feel worthless.

So just a word of caution when brining in real world puzzles for your table. I have had some groups who love this stuff, and others that hate it. So, if your group love riddles, great. If not, you could be the only one that ends having fun with it.

Best of luck to you!

A great distance a rimmed place be.
A world with vast seas.
A downed ship rests and awaits.
With a sea so great,
yet not a drop of water in it be.
Governed by two great lords,
Ever vigilant, every day.

"Where waves crash slowly over time

Where life is scarce and thirst is great

Over whose horizon, two great lords climb

In who’s depths are sunk one starship's fate."

If your players are Star Wars fans, this will probably be an easy riddle. But I agree with R2builder that you shouldn’t have an NPC to ‘nudge’ them in the right direction. I’ve given my groups riddles before and it is a great way to add a new element into your game and break up the repetition of certain encounters. If they can’t solve the riddle though, I usually make the group complete some difficult tasks to find out the answer to the riddle. Maybe they guess the wrong planet and have to travel there only to find another riddle or clue that points them towards Tatooine.

Also, I wouldn’t give them the exact coordinates either. Maybe they have a picture of a map, but it doesn’t show what planet it’s on, just a few terrain features that are hard to identify. Another alternative is to make them role a couple of Daunting or Formidable Knowledge (Outer Rim) or (Lore) checks to guess some of the clues right. Again, if they fail to solve the riddle, pass the knowledge checks, and/or read the map, make them complete some other tasks to earn the information they are seeking. If you’re working on challenges for them, I wouldn’t negate that work by giving them the answers.

Also, the universe is filled with desert planets with two suns... Tatooine, Jakku, etc...

It doesn't matter *which* desert planet they come up with - that's the one the riddle pointed to.

lords of pizza rule on this place, free delivery from the red topped huts

lords of pizza rule on this place, free delivery from the red topped huts

Winner, winner, pizza dinner!

"Where waves crash slowly over time

Where life is scarce and thirst is great

Over whose horizon, two great lords climb

In who’s depths are sunk one starship's fate."

If your players are Star Wars fans, this will probably be an easy riddle. But I agree with R2builder that you shouldn’t have an NPC to ‘nudge’ them in the right direction. I’ve given my groups riddles before and it is a great way to add a new element into your game and break up the repetition of certain encounters. If they can’t solve the riddle though, I usually make the group complete some difficult tasks to find out the answer to the riddle. Maybe they guess the wrong planet and have to travel there only to find another riddle or clue that points them towards Tatooine.

Also, I wouldn’t give them the exact coordinates either. Maybe they have a picture of a map, but it doesn’t show what planet it’s on, just a few terrain features that are hard to identify. Another alternative is to make them role a couple of Daunting or Formidable Knowledge (Outer Rim) or (Lore) checks to guess some of the clues right. Again, if they fail to solve the riddle, pass the knowledge checks, and/or read the map, make them complete some other tasks to earn the information they are seeking. If you’re working on challenges for them, I wouldn’t negate that work by giving them the answers.

They are still able to use dice rolls to get better clues from the riddle. I'm thinking I should change it to they have the planet and need to figure out the riddle for Dune Sea. Like "there's no oceans on Tatoonine?" kinda thing. Would that work better?

If not a riddle how else can I lead them to this downed craft? Their mentor is going to require they get a way to power up the ship once they find it to get its treasures. Powers is no problem and just a side to the main problem of finding the ship in the desert.

@Simon Retold - Great work, I liked it. ; ) It's less like a riddle though and more like a poem, but still sounds awesome.

@KillerBeardHawk - Oh, I think figuring out what planet it's on is the best part. Makes it feel like the first KOTOR game where you're trying to figure out the location of Star Forge Station. Plus, making them go to the wrong planet and have a whole other side adventure there is great, even if it's only like 1 or 2 extra encounters. Will probably immerse the players more in the game. I'm sure people go to the wrong planets all the time when their treasure hunting like this, which should make it feel more real and interesting.

I'd keep it as a riddle first, if they can't figure it out resort to Knowledge checks, and if they fail those make them do some task to recover this lost information. Make them earn it and see where it goes from there. They'll have more of a sense of accomplishment. The power issue sounds like a good additional challenge for them to overcome once they actually find it.

Where is the group currently? What are they made up of career/specialization wise? Who is their Force mentor/what is he like?

And lastly, if this is an FnD campaign, why ask that question in the EotE forum?

The only problem that I see, is that what may be obvious to you may not be so for the players to figure out, even with good clues.

Imagine the Fellowship trying to open the door to Moria and not getting the "Speak Friend and Enter" clue....ohh well looks like Sauron will win as we can not bypass the mountain range....

oh sweet off to jakku

The only problem that I see, is that what may be obvious to you may not be so for the players to figure out, even with good clues.

Imagine the Fellowship trying to open the door to Moria and not getting the "Speak Friend and Enter" clue....ohh well looks like Sauron will win as we can not bypass the mountain range....

Always have at least three ways to get to the important secret room/treasure built into your story.

@Simon Retold - Great work, I liked it. ; ) It's less like a riddle though and more like a poem, but still sounds awesome.

@KillerBeardHawk - Oh, I think figuring out what planet it's on is the best part. Makes it feel like the first KOTOR game where you're trying to figure out the location of Star Forge Station. Plus, making them go to the wrong planet and have a whole other side adventure there is great, even if it's only like 1 or 2 extra encounters. Will probably immerse the players more in the game. I'm sure people go to the wrong planets all the time when their treasure hunting like this, which should make it feel more real and interesting.

I'd keep it as a riddle first, if they can't figure it out resort to Knowledge checks, and if they fail those make them do some task to recover this lost information. Make them earn it and see where it goes from there. They'll have more of a sense of accomplishment. The power issue sounds like a good additional challenge for them to overcome once they actually find it.

Where is the group currently? What are they made up of career/specialization wise? Who is their Force mentor/what is he like?

And lastly, if this is an FnD campaign, why ask that question in the EotE forum?

Group is at a Hutts palace after finishing the Grande Noopa.

Pathfinder, Armorer, Demolitionist, Hunter, Peacekeeper and a Combat Medic.

Draze Zassic, their Jedi mentor, is looking for powerful holocrons. A former Jedi Knight, he now lives on the run from the Empire. He has trained the force sensitives in the group and has helped them with their lightssbers.

He has found the final clue to the last known location of the Jedi Master Sulja Warde. A powerful Jedi, who recorded a powerful Force ability within a holocron.

And lastly, if this is an FnD campaign, why ask that question in the EotE forum?

Mostly FD characters but it's a mixed party. Equal dealing with hutts, bountys, treasures, fighting the empire, lightsabers and force.

More views honestly, as this isn't a force or career based question figured I'd put it in the EOTE thread.

@Simon Retold - Great work, I liked it. ; ) It's less like a riddle though and more like a poem, but still sounds awesome.

I'm an old-school riddler, and I can tell you that a lot of the classic are poetic. Take some of the ones from Tolkien's The Hobbit .

@Simon Retold - Great work, I liked it. ; ) It's less like a riddle though and more like a poem, but still sounds awesome.

I'm an old-school riddler, and I can tell you that a lot of the classic are poetic. Take some of the ones from Tolkien's The Hobbit.

Or...

This thing all things devours:

Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;

Gnaws iron, bites steel;

Grinds hard stones to meal;

Slays king, ruins town,

And beats high mountain down.

Time.

Anyone here remember the AD&D trilogy of modules about Amun Re? Riddles, puzzles...loved that stuff. Putting the pieces together, solving the mystery. Authentic accomplishments.

Nowadays it's all lead 'em by the nose ring, silver platter served. Blah.

Make it hard, make them solve the riddle. Otherwise, what's the point of asking for help with a riddle if solving the mystery is just going to be replaced with a box of crayons and a coloring book?

A sea of broken glass

A dry and arid bowl

Two Lords of the Sky

Incinerate the soul

Buried in the deep

A demon never slain

A vast and gaping maw

A thousand years of pain

Monsters stalking prey

Their thunder striking fear

Keep their pearly hoard

Held forever near

Hidden in the grains

The ark from past the sky

Contains the answers sought

Who, what, where, when, how...

... and why.

___________________

I don't really like the last line, honestly. I don't even know why you want your players to find this ship. *chuckles* It really screws with the tempo at the end there. Maybe replace it with someone else that rhymes with "sky". Some suggestions?

"The scoundrel's lullaby"

"Amidst a muffled cry"

"Where fleeting thoughts may fly"

"In shallow grave does lie"

... or something.

Now that I think it through, the last refrain should be...

Hidden in those grains

The smuggler's lullaby

Contains the answers sought

The ark from past the sky

Anyone here remember the AD&D trilogy of modules about Amun Re? Riddles, puzzles...loved that stuff. Putting the pieces together, solving the mystery. Authentic accomplishments.

Nowadays it's all lead 'em by the nose ring, silver platter served. Blah.

Make it hard, make them solve the riddle. Otherwise, what's the point of asking for help with a riddle if solving the mystery is just going to be replaced with a box of crayons and a coloring book?

I think the big issue I have with handing the players a riddle and expecting them to figure it out is that the players and the characters are two different things. I have a guy in a campaign we just started who, while intelligent enough, isn't a top one percenter like his Scientist character. We don't make players swing swords or shoot guns to see if they hit, nor do we ask them to pick real locks in order to prove their character can. It's the character being tested, not the player, so successfully solving a riddle should be some kind of Intellect or Cunning check.

The flip side of this thing is when you present a puzzle that your players might have seen before and might know very well, but which would be complete show-stoppers for their character.

In my personal case, there was a game a while back where the GM presented a “Towers of Hanoi” problem from one of the old Star Wars computer games.

Since I do actually have a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science, I happen to know that this is one of the most basic problems we sometimes get asked to solve, and I can do them in my sleep — well, almost.

But my Wookiee Marauder with an Intellect of 2? No way he should be involved in solving that puzzle in any respect.

Unfortunately, that’s not the way it worked out because none of the other players knew anything about the puzzle and we were totally stuck. So, I had to set my character knowledge aside and use my player knowledge to solve the puzzle that was relatively trivial for me.

I don’t begrudge the GM for us being in this position — he was actively trying to make the game more interesting and bring in an element that we had not seen before. It just so happened that it wasn’t really a great fit for that group.

Doing something like riddles is always at least partly a risk.

You need to understand something about your party that you’re gaming with, and make sure that you’ve got at least a couple of other solutions available to the party in case you give them a problem that seems simple to you, but ends up being one that they are incapable of resolving.

On the flip side, if your intent is to make this thing the be-all and end-all game-stopper, and you use Tolkien-inspired riddles, and it just so happens that you have a Tolkien nut in your group, then you may find that they slay this dragon with much more ease than you would have liked.

So, we get back to my comment above — Doing something like riddles is always at least partly a risk.

Anyone here remember the AD&D trilogy of modules about Amun Re? Riddles, puzzles...loved that stuff. Putting the pieces together, solving the mystery. Authentic accomplishments.

Nowadays it's all lead 'em by the nose ring, silver platter served. Blah.

Make it hard, make them solve the riddle. Otherwise, what's the point of asking for help with a riddle if solving the mystery is just going to be replaced with a box of crayons and a coloring book?

I think the big issue I have with handing the players a riddle and expecting them to figure it out is that the players and the characters are two different things. I have a guy in a campaign we just started who, while intelligent enough, isn't a top one percenter like his Scientist character. We don't make players swing swords or shoot guns to see if they hit, nor do we ask them to pick real locks in order to prove their character can. It's the character being tested, not the player, so successfully solving a riddle should be some kind of Intellect or Cunning check.[/quote

Rolling dice to solve a riddle...

The idea is to challenge characters and players.

"I'm not going to play anymore. If my character dies it's on him, not me. After all, dice decide evefything. Let me know how he does, would ya?"

Rolling dice to solve a riddle...

The idea is to challenge characters and players.

"I'm not going to play anymore. If my character dies it's on him, not me. After all, dice decide evefything. Let me know how he does, would ya?"

You're so right. We should make them swing swords at each other, too. And while we're at it, they should pick locks, fly space ships, leap over chasms, and sneak into government installations.

So a player of average intellect, cunning, willpower, or presence can never successfully play a character of high intellect, cunning, willpower, or presence, but players who are generally average and best in brawn and agility but play characters high in those traits get a pass?

One of the beautiful things about this game is that even failed rolls can net you advantages, which means that failing to decipher a puzzle or riddle can still offer clues. But no... let's not make them roll dice to see if their characters - who are completely different from them - can figure out a puzzle.

Don't get me wrong, the role-playing and storytelling are the core of the fun. But having one type of test require dice and the other require intellect or acting ability or some kind of player-based skill seems disingenuous at best.

I generally allow kibitzing at my table. Players can freely chat with each other to help solve social encounters or puzzles even if their characters aren't there or are too "dumb" to solve puzzles themselves. I do this because characters are different from their players, and players don't always realize or know or can finger out things their characters can. So I'll let it be a group effort.*

In the case of something like the riddle here being presented to the group to solve, someone in the group has a higher Intellect right? In the end, it may be, within the context of the story, that it was she who fingered it all out. Maybe in character, the Gamorrean thug with the 1 Intellect is scratching his head, but the player doesn't need/have to sit by unable to help just because. (And if the players can't finger out the puzzle, then go to some dice rolling. And if the dice fail the players, then they'll have to seek out a sage or something in character.)

*On occasion, I will ask that a specific player try to solve the encounter or puzzle themselves without kibitzing. But that's the exception.

(And if the players can't finger out the puzzle, then go to some dice rolling. And if the dice fail the players, then they'll have to seek out a sage or something in character.)

Pretty much what I said earlier, so I'd say I agree with you the most. The 'seek out a sage or something' could be how you interpret Advantage from a failed Knowledge check. And if you want to be really sneaky, you can make the Knowledge check hidden and say that if they failed with threat, feed them false information. (GM secretly rolls the character's Knowledge check and they get 3 threat and a Despair) "After thinking about it, your character realizes that this is obviously talking about this one city on Mon Calamari. You should go there!" (Players fail to find the lost ship and get attacked by a bunch of Mon Cal sharks while searching for it. -> But they find a new clue that leads them to Tatooine)

I'd keep it as a riddle first, if they can't figure it out resort to Knowledge checks, and if they fail those make them do some task to recover this lost information. Make them earn it and see where it goes from there. They'll have more of a sense of accomplishment.