If this were true we'd see Rebel's running at least 2 Tractor beams in almost every list. It may work vs Screed list's but not vs Ozzel as he hard counters Tractors.
The main wave 3 thing I expect to see mess with DeMSU is Slicer Tools. Ozzel and Screed will have their maneuvering messed with. We'll see if that's enough, but I'm not convinced Demolisher is really broken. Rhymerballs are dominating Regionals right now. DeMSU has about the same representation at the top as Rieekan.
Honestly Rebels as the game stands today are behind the curve. Yes you can play well with them, but ultimately the best toys are available to the Imperials at the moment.
I suspect wave 3 and 4 should help balance it, if not give more options to the Rebels.
Imperials have hitting power which is nice when you are. . . Oh let's say George Foreman but Rebels are like Muhammad Ali. Fast and flight is a good thing
If this were true we'd see Rebel's running at least 2 Tractor beams in almost every list. It may work vs Screed list's but not vs Ozzel as he hard counters Tractors.
The main wave 3 thing I expect to see mess with DeMSU is Slicer Tools. Ozzel and Screed will have their maneuvering messed with. We'll see if that's enough, but I'm not convinced Demolisher is really broken. Rhymerballs are dominating Regionals right now. DeMSU has about the same representation at the top as Rieekan.
This is why I will have 2 GR75's with Tractor Beams and Slicer Tools. I will let demo rush in to do its dirty work and then use the GR75's to mess with its dial and speed. If it cant go up in speed it will flounder and be unable to do its job.
I disagree. Rebels have always needed better play to make them work. Sure they have the cool titles but they have some of the best commanders and over all the best ships.Honestly Rebels as the game stands today are behind the curve. Yes you can play well with them, but ultimately the best toys are available to the Imperials at the moment.
I suspect wave 3 and 4 should help balance it, if not give more options to the Rebels.
Imperials have hitting power which is nice when you are. . . Oh let's say George Foreman but Rebels are like Muhammad Ali. Fast and flight is a good thing
Man... I love his grill though! As a broke college student that thing is a godsend.
Man if you rebels think your at a Disadvantage, run more TRC...
Seriously the most broken card in the game right now
Man if you rebels think your at a Disadvantage, run more TRC...
Seriously the most broken card in the game right now
I got the chance to face off against an exact copy of your list a week ago.....
I'm still having nightmares.
Intel officer...bah....
Man if you rebels think your at a Disadvantage, run more TRC...
Seriously the most broken card in the game right now
I got the chance to face off against an exact copy of your list a week ago.....
I'm still having nightmares.
Intel officer...bah....
Man if you rebels think your at a Disadvantage, run more TRC...
Seriously the most broken card in the game right now
I definitely don't think Rebels are at a disadvantage, but if you think TRCs are the most broken card in the game then you must never run this Demolisher title people keep talking about...
(PSA I don't think Demolisher is broken, but if Demolisher isn't broken then TRCs DEFINITELY aren't broken)
I feel the Rebel advantage is in that their ships are pretty flexible. Even MC80s can flip between gun-barge roles and super carriers. CR-90Bs loaded with SW-7s just pump out a constant 3 damage at the target. All the Nebulon titles are fantastic to a degree, the Assault Frigate is the most flexible ship in the game and the MC30 can survive longer than you think it does. As an Imperial player I'm envious of the use I see out of everything in the Rebel lineup.
That the GR75Ts are going to be the cheapest ship in the game at 18 means you can swing in the activation advantage, and prevent the opponent from tabling you by giving it Bright Hope, your admiral, and sending after distant objective tokens or sightseeing remote corners of the play area.
Empire on the other hand feels kind of restrictive in what kinds of effective lists we can make based on how best to run half the ships in our inventory. Really the only ship that can be configured best for all situations (That isn't Demolisher by virtue of rushing and triple-tapping) is the 120 point ISD-II.
I feel the Rebel advantage is in that their ships are pretty flexible. Even MC80s can flip between gun-barge roles and super carriers. CR-90Bs loaded with SW-7s just pump out a constant 3 damage at the target. All the Nebulon titles are fantastic to a degree, the Assault Frigate is the most flexible ship in the game and the MC30 can survive longer than you think it does. As an Imperial player I'm envious of the use I see out of everything in the Rebel lineup.
That the GR75Ts are going to be the cheapest ship in the game at 18 means you can swing in the activation advantage, and prevent the opponent from tabling you by giving it Bright Hope, your admiral, and sending after distant objective tokens or sightseeing remote corners of the play area.
Empire on the other hand feels kind of restrictive in what kinds of effective lists we can make based on how best to run half the ships in our inventory. Really the only ship that can be configured best for all situations (That isn't Demolisher by virtue of rushing and triple-tapping) is the 120 point ISD-II.
ISD-I is probably currently the best carrier in the game, as it can fit a combo of Flight controllers (or Ruthless strats), Boosted Comms and Expanded Hangers. So 5 Squadron activations, at long range, that all get +1 Dice vs other squadrons on top of any of the other Squadron synergies the Empire can field is very nasty. With Ozzel as commander it then makes a very nice Battering Ram to follow up your bomber strikes.
I feel the Rebel advantage is in that their ships are pretty flexible. Even MC80s can flip between gun-barge roles and super carriers. CR-90Bs loaded with SW-7s just pump out a constant 3 damage at the target. All the Nebulon titles are fantastic to a degree, the Assault Frigate is the most flexible ship in the game and the MC30 can survive longer than you think it does. As an Imperial player I'm envious of the use I see out of everything in the Rebel lineup.
That the GR75Ts are going to be the cheapest ship in the game at 18 means you can swing in the activation advantage, and prevent the opponent from tabling you by giving it Bright Hope, your admiral, and sending after distant objective tokens or sightseeing remote corners of the play area.
Empire on the other hand feels kind of restrictive in what kinds of effective lists we can make based on how best to run half the ships in our inventory. Really the only ship that can be configured best for all situations (That isn't Demolisher by virtue of rushing and triple-tapping) is the 120 point ISD-II.
My perspective:
Rebels have more different options because there is no dramatic effectiveness disparity between our ships/unique cards. Our good ships/combos are pretty good, our bad ones are merely not great.
Imperials, by contrast, are shoehorned into relatively few archetypes because your good combos are amazing, and your bad ones are pretty bad, so why would you build for something not-awesome?
So Rebels offer a fun, diverse play style that's consistently competent but hard to rise to the top in a competitive environment. Imperials offer better reward for competitive min/maxing because Demolisher and Rhymer are disproportionately good. Problems on both sides, but different, and makes it frustrating for both in different ways.
None of this is to say the game is horribly unbalanced or anything, btw. These are relative assessments--I'm certainly not saying "Demo + Rhymer = win button", nor am I saying Rebels can't win or every Rebel fleet is viable. These are just the challenges I see each side having.
I feel the Rebel advantage is in that their ships are pretty flexible. Even MC80s can flip between gun-barge roles and super carriers. CR-90Bs loaded with SW-7s just pump out a constant 3 damage at the target. All the Nebulon titles are fantastic to a degree, the Assault Frigate is the most flexible ship in the game and the MC30 can survive longer than you think it does. As an Imperial player I'm envious of the use I see out of everything in the Rebel lineup.
That the GR75Ts are going to be the cheapest ship in the game at 18 means you can swing in the activation advantage, and prevent the opponent from tabling you by giving it Bright Hope, your admiral, and sending after distant objective tokens or sightseeing remote corners of the play area.
Empire on the other hand feels kind of restrictive in what kinds of effective lists we can make based on how best to run half the ships in our inventory. Really the only ship that can be configured best for all situations (That isn't Demolisher by virtue of rushing and triple-tapping) is the 120 point ISD-II.
My perspective:
Rebels have more different options because there is no dramatic effectiveness disparity between our ships/unique cards. Our good ships/combos are pretty good, our bad ones are merely not great.
Imperials, by contrast, are shoehorned into relatively few archetypes because your good combos are amazing, and your bad ones are pretty bad, so why would you build for something not-awesome?
I have to say that, speaking as a primarily Imperial player, I agree with Ardaedhel and Norsehound; what I envy in Rebel fleets is the ability to use lots of different ships in lots of different ways. At the moment (and I say at the moment, because the Interdictor may completely shake things up) there are only really two ship types in the Imperial fleet that I feel like I can properly rely on - ISDs and Gladiators. I like VSDs, but the only really successful fleets I've seen them used on were squadron-heavy ones. They worked extremely effectively, but in one very restrictive capacity. Similarly with the Raider... I want to love it, but it's quite difficult to use, as it wants to get in close but hasn't got the hull or the shields to do so. Which leaves you with two reliable ships around which to build lists. The ISD is great and highly versatile, and I wouldn't trade it for the world, and I do like the Gladiator. But it's hard for us to avoid the obvious choices and get creative - even a bomber-heavy build is an archetypal Rhymerball. By comparison, I've come up against Rebel fleets of all shapes and sizes, and they just seem to have more options.
I think that Wave 4 will really shake things up. I do think that Demolisher will start to be less of an auto-include. I've personally deliberately decided to take it out of my list, as I felt it encouraged me to use lazy tactics; I would jump it in to take out a small ship, and then watch it get torn to bits. But just in terms of what it might come up against, the Interdictor should counter much of its manoeuvrability so that it is not quite so effective. I also think that, in Imperial lists, Interdictors will afford much more flexibility. Its ability to slow down ships could make the Victory's more ponderous speed worth it for the heft of its front arc, which might not be so easy to outflank. And for Raiders, that Experimental upgrade card (which appears to offer a certain amount of defence at close range - see my reading here) might make them easier to include.
But the question was about Rebels, and I think the Liberty is a really remarkable addition. Once again in counter to Demolisher, what you have is a ship that doesn't have to conga-line to deliver Mc30cs to where you want them to be without them being so easily Demo'ed; flying them in a diamond, or a flat lin will give enough dice pointing in different directions to make the usual holes that Demo drops into less appealing. If you can manage to get past the withering front arc of the Liberty, you're likely only to be dropping it into those scary side arcs of the MC30Cs. The Liberty can fly right at an Imperial formation, taking it head on in the way it wants to fight itself, and then push in MC30s to do damage on either side.
Essentially, I think Wave 4 will make it easier for both sides to use all their ships and in different ways. Until now the tactics that both sides can use have been in some ways limited, more so on the Imperial side than on the Rebel, but still. After Wave 4 (and indeed Wave 3, which will allow for big ships without sacrificing activations), I think we'll see a lot more variety.
Ard pretty much hit the nail on the head...
...then you must never run this Demolisher title people keep talking about...)
Yes I run demolisher and I'm sorry if you didn't recognize my username but I'm kinda an EXPERT on running demolisher 
The difference between demolisher and Trc is that I can only ever field ONE demolisher and contrary to popular opinion there is only so Much ONE SMALL SHIP can do. Trc on the other hand have almost No lmit, they work great at all ranges and it is easy to field 2-5 cr90s/ mc30s that carry them at speed 4.
Demolisher is very much overpowered, but it's Unique
Edit: I realized my post could be interpreted as harsh and I don't mean for it to be so please don't read it that way.I intend it to be humorous
Edited by clontroper5I think the difference will be increased in wave 3.
flotillas can greatly benefit squadron game, and imperials have the edge there due to rhymer. the difference is not huge, mind you; jan ors + bombers is great for the rebels, just dengar & rhymer is slightly better for no other drawback.the rebels are paying for having no "mass bomber support", nym luke and keyan being "selfish" and unsynergistic for a mass bomber approach, and dutch being more antisquadron. so while rebels can build nasty squadron builds, its just better to bring similar squadron builds as imperial.
rhymerball rerolling all their black dice may have a huge impact.
Ard pretty much hit the nail on the head...
I'm sorry but, HAHAHAHAHA! oh my lol...then you must never run this Demolisher title people keep talking about...)
Yes I run demolisher and I'm sorry if you didn't recognize my username but I'm kinda an EXPERT on running demolisher
The difference between demolisher and Trc is that I can only ever field ONE demolisher and contrary to popular opinion there is only so Much ONE SMALL SHIP can do. Trc on the other hand have almost No lmit, they work great at all ranges and it is easy to field 2-5 cr90s/ mc30s that carry them at speed 4.
Demolisher is very much overpowered, but it's Unique
Edit: I realized my post could be interpreted as harsh and I don't mean for it to be so please don't read it that way.I intend it to be humorous
To go along with that line or thinking, how do you like this:
Release the Cracken!
Author: Truthiness
Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 382/400
Commander: General Cracken
Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory
CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- General Cracken ( 26 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)
Ard pretty much hit the nail on the head...
I'm sorry but, HAHAHAHAHA! oh my lol...then you must never run this Demolisher title people keep talking about...)
Yes I run demolisher and I'm sorry if you didn't recognize my username but I'm kinda an EXPERT on running demolisher
The difference between demolisher and Trc is that I can only ever field ONE demolisher and contrary to popular opinion there is only so Much ONE SMALL SHIP can do. Trc on the other hand have almost No lmit, they work great at all ranges and it is easy to field 2-5 cr90s/ mc30s that carry them at speed 4.
Demolisher is very much overpowered, but it's Unique
Edit: I realized my post could be interpreted as harsh and I don't mean for it to be so please don't read it that way.I intend it to be humorous
I didn't take your post as harsh. I was also being very sarcastic, one might even go as far as to say trolly, but this is the internet, and such things don't come through sometimes I suppose.
TRCs are very powerful, but you're also trading offense for defense, and they cost 7 points. I see them as VERY good, but overpowered? I don't think that. I think XI7s are worse than TRC90s as at least with TRCs you still get to spend your defense tokens.
Ard pretty much hit the nail on the head...
I'm sorry but, HAHAHAHAHA! oh my lol...then you must never run this Demolisher title people keep talking about...)
Yes I run demolisher and I'm sorry if you didn't recognize my username but I'm kinda an EXPERT on running demolisher
The difference between demolisher and Trc is that I can only ever field ONE demolisher and contrary to popular opinion there is only so Much ONE SMALL SHIP can do. Trc on the other hand have almost No lmit, they work great at all ranges and it is easy to field 2-5 cr90s/ mc30s that carry them at speed 4.
Demolisher is very much overpowered, but it's Unique
Edit: I realized my post could be interpreted as harsh and I don't mean for it to be so please don't read it that way.I intend it to be humorous
Mmmm. That delicious over-the-head sarcasm.