Just a rule question. Can you use A Good Harvest to pay the resources in other sphere cards (like Heed the Dream, but any really) of which you have no resource icon? Seems a bit ambiguous to me.

I don't think you can use it like you're asking. A Good Harvest says it lets you use any resource to play cards belonging to the named sphere. Heed the Dream is a Lore card, not a Leadership one... so I guess you could use it if you were lacking the Lore icon, but as I read it, you couldn't use it to pay the Leadership resources

You can use A Good Harvest to pay to play Heed the Dream, if that is your question.

What i don't think you can do is use A Good Harvest to spend 3 leadership resources in part of the Heed the Dream action as you don't have time to play A Good Harvest after playing Heed the Dream and not fully resolve its effect

I don't think you can do it because it doesn't grant any Leadership resources. A Good Harvest allows you to spend resources of any color to "pay for" cards of any sphere, but I don't think paying resources as the result of a card effect qualifies as "paying for" a card.

I think the only way, given the current card pool, to pay the extra resources for a card like Heed the Dream from an off-sphere hero's resource pool is to give that hero the necessary resource icon. As far as I can tell, these are all attachments -- the Songs, Rings of Power, Aragorn's toys -- and also a few heroes like Amarthiul or Oin. There are no events that temporarily give a hero a different or additional resource icon. In fact, I think the only card in the entire pool that can give you an "instant" resource icon is Narvi's Belt.

In fact, I think the only card in the entire pool that can give you an "instant" resource icon is Narvi's Belt.

Gandalf.

In fact, I think the only card in the entire pool that can give you an "instant" resource icon is Narvi's Belt.

Gandalf.

I thought about that, but it doesn't actually work. Gandalf's text reads, "When playing a card this way, Gandalf is considered to have the printed Leadership, Lore, Tactics, and Spirit icons." So he only has the extra icon while playing the card from the top of the deck. Even if you play Heed the Dream yourself, he'll have a Lore icon, not a Leadership icon.

In fact, I think the only card in the entire pool that can give you an "instant" resource icon is Narvi's Belt.

Gandalf.

I thought about that, but it doesn't actually work. Gandalf's text reads, "When playing a card this way, Gandalf is considered to have the printed Leadership, Lore, Tactics, and Spirit icons." So he only has the extra icon while playing the card from the top of the deck. Even if you play Heed the Dream yourself, he'll have a Lore icon, not a Leadership icon.

It's true that Gandalf doesn't work in this particular case, but he does provide an instant icon.

Actually Gandalf does work in this case - it says that while playing a card from the top of your deck "Gandalf is considered to have the printed Leadership, Lore, Tactics, and Spirit icons." All of them, not just the one that matches the card you're playing. So while you're playing Heed the Dream from the top of your deck, Gandalf has a Lore icon so he can play it in the first place, but he also has a Leadership icon so he can pay for the secondary effect if he has 3 resources.

But back to the original question, no. Good Harvest lets you use other sphered resources to pay for cards of a named sphere, it does not make them resources of that sphere. The secondary effect of Heed the Dream requires actual Leadership resources, so the hero paying them must have a Leadership icon, either printed or granted by a card effect.

Actually Gandalf does work in this case - it says that while playing a card from the top of your deck "Gandalf is considered to have the printed Leadership, Lore, Tactics, and Spirit icons." All of them, not just the one that matches the card you're playing. So while you're playing Heed the Dream from the top of your deck, Gandalf has a Lore icon so he can play it in the first place, but he also has a Leadership icon so he can pay for the secondary effect if he has 3 resources.

That is a good point (I misread the and as an or), but looking at Heed the Dream again, I wonder if this actually does work. Gandalf's text reads, "When playing a card this way...", implying that he has the extra icons only for playing the card. But Heed the Dream has already been played, I would think, by the time you start resolving its text. Does Gandalf still have the extra icons at this point, or has his window of opportunity already closed?

Here is the bit about Events in the core set manual:

"Event cards represent maneuvers, actions, tactics, spells, and other instantaneous effects at a player’s disposal. An event card is played from a player’s hand, its text effects are resolved, and the card is then placed in its owner’s discard pile."

Based on that, I think Gandalf should not be able to pay for the secondary effect of a card like Heed the Dream. 1) Card is played, 2) Text effects are resolved (note that this is a separate step from "playing" the card, and 3) card is placed in discard.

Gandalf would have the icon only during step (1), "playing" the card, but not during step (2), resolving its text.

Here is the bit about Events in the core set manual:

"Event cards represent maneuvers, actions, tactics, spells, and other instantaneous effects at a player’s disposal. An event card is played from a player’s hand, its text effects are resolved, and the card is then placed in its owner’s discard pile."

Based on that, I think Gandalf should not be able to pay for the secondary effect of a card like Heed the Dream. 1) Card is played, 2) Text effects are resolved (note that this is a separate step from "playing" the card, and 3) card is placed in discard.

Gandalf would have the icon only during step (1), "playing" the card, but not during step (2), resolving its text.

I don't think this is correct. If it were, then Gandalf would not have an icon during the resolution of a card like Mithrandir's advice.

If I use Gandalf's ability to play Mithrandir's Advice off the top of my deck, do I get to consider Gandalf to have a printed lore icon when resolving the action on the card? In other words, when does the phrase "when playing a card this way" stop working? Is it when I've finished paying the cost of the card, or is it when I finish resolving the text on the card?

Gandalf’s added icons disappear after you have fully resolved playing the top card of your deck. So, when you play Mithrandir’s Advice, Gandalf is considered to have the printed lore icon.

Cheers,

Caleb

Hooray!

To have printed icon, wow?

Otherwise, thanks for the responses. I feared (and got used to) it was so...

I think that what Grandspleen meant is that Gandalf can gain a resource icon in order to play the card as a framework action, but that he cannot gain a resource icon for the purpose of resolving the text ability of the card. So, instead of saying he can only "have" the icon during step 2 he should have said "gain" the icon. If that is not what Grandspleen meant then that's what he should have meant :-)

You're right DW I was saying that I didn't think Gandalf would still have his resource icon while resolving card text, but based on the ruling Seastan posted it looks like I was wrong. Hence Gandalf should be able to use resources in his pool to pay for the Leadership resources in Heed the Dream, so long as Gandalf is playing Heed the Dream from the top of his deck.

I thought having him retain the icons while resolving the card could lead to some shenanigans when playing Quick Strike. i.e Gandalf would have the printed icons through all the steps of combat. But I asked Caleb about this and he said it wouldn't work.

Once the attack has begun, the event is considered resolved, then?

Once the attack has begun, the event is considered resolved, then?

Just noticed that I never followed up on this. Here is my email/his response:

1) If I use Gandalf's ability to play Mithrandir's Advice off the top of my deck, do I get to consider Gandalf to have a printed lore icon when resolving the action on the card? In other words, when does the phrase "when playing a card this way" stop working? Is it when I've finished paying the cost of the card, or is it when I finish resolving the text on the card?

2) If Gandalf's icons persist until I've finished resolving the text on the card, does this mean a card like Quick Strike can provide a unique "nested" action window where Gandalf's resources can be spent on sphere-specific action cards played from the hand

1. Gandalf’s added icons disappear after you have fully resolved playing the top card of your deck. So, when you play Mithrandir’s Advice, Gandalf is considered to have the printed lore icon.

2. Quick Strike’s ability resolves immediately, granting you an attack. Quick Strike’s ability is not considered to be active throughout the entirety of the attack, so Gandalf would not have the tactics icon for more the instant it takes to play the event.