Ship Movement

- Every move has a Determine Course step and a Move Ship step. Agreed?

- There is no difference here between a "normal" move and a "bonus move" (i.e. ET or QS). Agreed?

- Except at what speed you move that is; the normal move is based on your dial, the bonus is a "printed" speed (i.e. 1, with yaw = - for QS and current speed dial speed for ET). Agreed?

G-8 Projectors

Before an enemy ship at distance 1-5 resolves the Determine Course step, you may exhaust this card to temporarily reduce its speed by 1 to a minimum of speed 0 until the end of the maneuver.

- The timing is pretty clear; BEFORE the Resolve step. So a ship hit by G-8 before its "normal" move could resolve a Nav to change its dial speed (but only to a legal speed of course). Then minus one due to G-8. Agreed?

- Now, since "bonus" move also is also at a speed (1), and has a Determine Course step, why would G-8 NOT affect it? This I don't understand...

...the only arguments supporting a bonus move being unaffected are A) bonus moves have no Determine Course step (false) and B) bonus move speeds are cannot be changed (most likely also false, at least there is nothing to support such a view).

So any claim that G-8 cannot touch a bonus move is tenuous. At best. Sure, you can argue to that effect until FFG possibly FAQs it. But why not simply accept what's the most likely outcome of said FAQ: that G-8s can affect bonus moves.

This is horribly circumstantial, but bear with me: why would FFG word that card if they didn't mean for it to touch bonus moves? Why not simply reference "speed on your speed dial"?

(pardon me for making up terms, I do this to clarify, not confuse)

Yes Green Knight I agree that ET maneuver follows some of the rules for Determine course, I also humbly point out that it does not follow all the rules, it totally ignores some of them rules.

Also that rule book was written before there even was an ET upgrade card.

The point I have been trying and failing to make here, is that every ship regardless of type has a phase called Determine Course Step, when a ship is in that phase, it uses the maneuver tool, it can spend and resolve Navigation dials and tokens, and it can only move the distance that is set on its speed dial. it is a phase of ship activation, with set rules that must be obeyed, including the rule for ramming where you temporarily reduce speed, as per your speed dial, down to zero.

Engine Techs, cannot occur, until Determine Course Step has been completed, and it can only occur if a Nav dial or token has been resolved in the Determine Course Step phase of ship activation. It does not follow the rules for speed dial, it ignores them, even if your current speed is ZERO, you can legally move your ship 1 distance with the Engine Tech card.

GR-8 says you must exhaust it before the Determine Course Step has been completed, and I think this is a direct referral to the rule book, to a specific phase of ship activation, that every single ship has to legally complete when it is activated, not to a potential maybe upgrade card, that may or may not even be in the game (depending on upgrades taken, or even having ships it can go on.)

Now even if we accept the premise that ET does in fact start a whole new Determine Course Step, one where you cannot resolve commands, and one that ignores your speed dial, to date anything that says reduce speed, or temporarily reduce speed is a direct reference to your speed dial, and we all know that Engine Techs ignores your speed dial, so even if you could target this maneuver and reduce speed by 1 temporarily that is your speed dial, so during the ET maneuver your speed dial gets temp reduced by one, you still move distance one, and only distance one, regardless of what your speed dial says.

And this really is my last post on this topic, because it is not resolving anything, and causing aggro. Only time will tell whether FFG agree of disagree.

Eastern King you have written that:

Demolisher breaks the rules as written in the rulebook with regard to phasing.

AND

Engine techs cannot break the rules as written in the rulebook with regard to phasing.

Pick one, which is it? Can cards overide the rulebook or not? I suspect answering this will explain why we are all annoyed with you.

God **** am I ever sorry I came back and read the last page of posts.

A pretty interesting, mostly civil discussion degenerated into...a Facebook argument with less memes...

God **** am I ever sorry I came back and read the last page of posts.

A pretty interesting, mostly civil discussion degenerated into...a Facebook argument with less memes...

Have a Video to appease.

And I asked a question, when in the rules talking about ships, when it says reduce speed, that is a direct reference to a speed dial no? the thing that dictates a ships maneuvering, someone keeps accusing me of making things up, but you won't even agree that, this is in fact the case.

Leading me to believe that there is some sort of popularity contest going on, and I am losing it.

Here let me answer your question a third time. 8 will be very clear.

Ramming. Under the Overlapping rules.

This is no popularity contest. At this point I think you are just trolling to troll.

I'm not following you here, at all.

My entire point is reduce speed is your dial, when you ram, you look at your dial, you do not make some number up.

ET has nothing to do with your speed dial.

And I'm trolling to troll? Trolling is posting off topic stuff in a thread to derail it, or insulting people, or calling people names to get a rise out of them.

I have posted nothing that is not on topic, I have insulted no one, and I have not called anyone names, or been nasty or abusive, I have been accused of ranting, been addressed dismissively, and had pointless off topic replies posted, been out right ignored on things that are correct, accused of making things up, and yet you accuse ME of trolling?

I accuse you of trolling becuase you blatantly ignore EVERYTHING everyone is saying. You COMPLETELY ignore the rules, and even an Email by FFG, but that fine.

When you Ram you don't look at your speed dial. You don't TOUCH that dial. Why? Well it's simple, you are already moving and have already declared and checked what speed you are going. If you ram, then all that happens is that you got back 1 node, continue till you don't ram anymore. Simple right? That is called Temporarily reducing your speed.

Now let's play your game once more since you seem to think in half measures and believe that you can have steps that are not "real steps"

Explain to us in clear well laid out steps how a move followed by engine techs works in your mind.

Oh, and please tell me what rules that Engine Techs does not follow. You say this but you have yet to explain what it does not follow.

I have seen people on Vassel using ET wrong. i.e. They just move the ship to the fourth notch if they are going speed 3 to clear another ship, especially if it's one of theirs.

I've had this done against me.

I think you should complete the speed 3 manoeuvre first and then place the tool again to either side of the ship and move the speed 1 manoeuvre.

I think you should complete the speed 3 manoeuvre first and then place the tool again to either side of the ship and move the speed 1 manoeuvre.

That would be the correct way to do it, yes.

Is this Still going on?

Is this Still going on?

You Shut Your Mouth.

Your Filthy, Filthy, Clonisher Mouth.

...

Is this Still going on?

You Shut Your Mouth.

Your Filthy, Filthy, Clonisher Mouth.

...

Not that my mouth has anything to do with my typing...

Is this Still going on?

Demolisher at speed 2, does a Nav and increases to speed 3. Moves. Engine Techs kicks in. G8 can reduce the Demolisher's speed by 1.... bringing it from speed 3, to speed 2. None of that has any impact on the Engine Techs move - which is still 1.

Demolisher at speed 2, does a Nav and increases to speed 3. Moves. Engine Techs kicks in. G8 can reduce the Demolisher's speed by 1.... bringing it from speed 3, to speed 2. None of that has any impact on the Engine Techs move - which is still 1.

Define "engine techs kick in".

Also, your point is?

Demolisher at speed 2, does a Nav and increases to speed 3. Moves. Engine Techs kicks in. G8 can reduce the Demolisher's speed by 1.... bringing it from speed 3, to speed 2. None of that has any impact on the Engine Techs move - which is still 1.

Define "engine techs kick in".

Also, your point is?

He didn't read the thread, thought he was pretty clever, and mike dropped something nobody else was discussing.

OK, get it now.

So just stating that he's in the can't affect ET move camp.

Demolisher at speed 2, does a Nav and increases to speed 3. Moves. Engine Techs kicks in. G8 can reduce the Demolisher's speed by 1.... bringing it from speed 3, to speed 2. None of that has any impact on the Engine Techs move - which is still 1.

The last bit is corret.. the first is wrong as G-8 activates in the timing slot "before" determine course which is when you apply the clicks to the ruler based on the actual speed. You could also instead choose to activate it "before" the determine course step for the ET move..

I'm inclined to believe (and this is really a faith thing) that because the G-8 is a unique card, and therefore deemed uber-powerful, that it does impact Engine Techs.

Opponent says "Okay i'm going to ET." You say "Ha! Ha! G-8!" Opponent says, "Darn!"

We will see.

So this was definitely answered. This is a HUGE counter to Demo right now. I predict many an Interdictor list when the Dirty Dozen show up.

the Dirty Dozen

Wat

the Dirty Dozen

Wat

Arquitens long rangers?

The 12 new Objectives

Demolisher at speed 2, does a Nav and increases to speed 3. Moves. Engine Techs kicks in. G8 can reduce the Demolisher's speed by 1.... bringing it from speed 3, to speed 2. None of that has any impact on the Engine Techs move - which is still 1.

The last bit is corret.. the first is wrong as G-8 activates in the timing slot "before" determine course which is when you apply the clicks to the ruler based on the actual speed. You could also instead choose to activate it "before" the determine course step for the ET move..

I'll be honest: I got really lost in the semantics of this conversation. Is this (answer above) the agreed upon interpretation?

Namely: you can use G8 to prevent movement with Engine Techs but you can only use it on either the initial move it the ET move, but not both?

Demolisher at speed 2, does a Nav and increases to speed 3. Moves. Engine Techs kicks in. G8 can reduce the Demolisher's speed by 1.... bringing it from speed 3, to speed 2. None of that has any impact on the Engine Techs move - which is still 1.

The last bit is corret.. the first is wrong as G-8 activates in the timing slot "before" determine course which is when you apply the clicks to the ruler based on the actual speed. You could also instead choose to activate it "before" the determine course step for the ET move..

I'll be honest: I got really lost in the semantics of this conversation. Is this (answer above) the agreed upon interpretation?

Namely: you can use G8 to prevent movement with Engine Techs but you can only use it on either the initial move it the ET move, but not both?

Correct. Intial move or ET. Not both.