Okay, let's argue about this over here instead of in the main thread.

I'm not arguing until I at least have Wave 3 in hand to be actually excited about

Okay, let's argue about this over here instead of in the main thread.

So Engine Techs tells you to do a Speed 1 maneuver. It does not state "If your speed is above 0 you may conduct a speed 1 maneuver"

Page 11 of the RRG:

Ship Movement

To execute a maneuver with a ship, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

1. Determine Course: Straighten the maneuver tool, then click the joints of the maneuver tool a number of times in either direction up to the corresponding yaw values indicated on the ship’s speed chart for the current speed. The ship can resolve a M command to adjust speed and/or yaw.

2. Move Ship: Place the maneuver tool on the play area and insert the guides of the first segment into the notches on one side of the front of the ship’s base. Then slide the ship away from the guides on the first segment and place the ship by sliding its notches over the guides on the joint that corresponds to the ship’s speed.

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Is "Current Speed" the same as "Speed" ?

Also, apologies for mistakes, I'm on a phone and type really slowly and poorly on this.

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

Is "Current Speed" the same as "Speed" ?

Does one of them reference current speed? I don't think they do...

sounds like a perfectly laid trap.

Is "Current Speed" the same as "Speed" ?

We both know its not. Remember the Thrust Control Malfunction question? FFG responded that Engine Techs is not affected by it UNLESS you are at speed 1.

So for those that don't remember what the crit does.

Thrust Control Malfunction x2 - Ship - The yaw value for the last adjustable joint at your current speed is reduced by 1

Is "Current Speed" the same as "Speed" ?

Does one of them reference current suited? I don't think they do...

G8 references "Speed"

However, Thrust Control Malfunction, the Critical Card, References "Current Speed". It refers to "Current Speed" as the Speed Shown on the Dial, and thus, does NOT reduce the Yaw Value of an Engine Tech Maneuver UNLESS your Speed Dial says Speed 1.

Ergo, if "Speed" and "Current Speed" are one and the same, then THAT will allow G8 to make an Engine Tech Maneuver Speed 0.

If "Speed" and "Current Speed" are different , then it will not.

Or the Other way around.

I don't Effin' know anymore.

But basically,

Speed = Current Speed means one thing...

Speed =/= Current Speed Means the Other...

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

So, what... November for an Answer, assuming we actually get an End-Of-September release ?

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

You do remember the last time I tried that on the Forums right? DiabloAzul had a hilarious time stacking ships. . . remember. ..

You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

Right, this is in all respects a speed 1 maneuver. Which means you have a Determine Course phase while executing that maneuver, which will hook G-8, which can reduce your speed.

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

You do remember the last time I tried that on the Forums right? DiabloAzul had a hilarious time stacking ships. . . remember. ..

Yup. And I just got done taking it from Dras for that silly Devastator/Tagge question. Still worth bringing up, because there are obviously people who disagree, and it's worth hashing out 1) what the right answer is, and 2) why that is the right answer.

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

You do remember the last time I tried that on the Forums right? DiabloAzul had a hilarious time stacking ships. . . remember. ..

I will never forget. It was GLORIOUS!

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

You do remember the last time I tried that on the Forums right? DiabloAzul had a hilarious time stacking ships. . . remember. ..

Yup. And I just got done taking it from Dras for that silly Devastator/Tagge question. Still worth bringing up, because there are obviously people who disagree, and it's worth hashing out 1) what the right answer is, and 2) why that is the right answer.

For which I apologise, and have been trying to be nicer...

... and still failing miserably...

I am a terrible person.

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

You do remember the last time I tried that on the Forums right? DiabloAzul had a hilarious time stacking ships. . . remember. ..

I will never forget. It was GLORIOUS!

That was right around when I first started lurking, and my first two impressions were "what an idiot this L-whatever guy is" and "what an ******* this DA is."

So the question imo boils down to: is the speed-1 specification of the Engine Techs second maneuver impacted by G-8. My gut reaction was no, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for yes.

Say you're making a normal speed 1 maneuver. At the Determine Course Step, G-8 decreases your speed temporarily to 1.

There is no difference in the Engine Tech maneuver, IF you activate G-8 during that maneuver and NOT during the first maneuver of the turn. You start executing a speed-1, get to the Determine Course Step, G-8 takes effect, and your speed decreases temporarily to 0.

Lyr, I think the disconnect might be in the timing that we're thinking for the G-8. I'm saying you may be able to use it on either the regular maneuver or the ET maneuver. It's not ET being limited by your initial speed, but rather limiting the speed of the second maneuver itself during the resolution of ET.

Sadly I disagree. Remember, Engine Techs has no limiting factor on what speed you are going. You just "Execute a Speed 1 maneuver"

And I can see that being the ruling as well, which is why I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I HOPE that it impacts ET, but I'm not convinced either way, and I think it's just simply going to depend on how FFG rules it, just like XI7/AP.

You do remember the last time I tried that on the Forums right? DiabloAzul had a hilarious time stacking ships. . . remember. ..

I will never forget. It was GLORIOUS!

That was right around when I first started lurking, and my first two impressions were "what an idiot this L-whatever guy is" and "what an ******* this DA is."

Yea. . . That sounds about right actually.

You might be right actually now that I see your example. Though I still think it changes your speed dial which would not affect Engine Techs.

For which I apologise, and have been trying to be nicer...

... and still failing miserably...

I am a terrible person.

Canadian influence? Canadian influence.

No worries.

A maneuver consists of two steps. Determine course and move. G8 is activated before the determine course step.

engine techs: After you execute a maneuver, you may exhaust this card to execute a speed-1 maneuver." engine techs is stated to have a speed and is a separate maneuver not based on your current speed. Since it is a separate maneuver with it's own determine course and move steps, the G8 would effect your speed to 0. thereby laying the trap so well planned and leaving you in my arc, bwaa ha ha ha!

Going for some DA points.

it does not change speed dial since it is temporary. does a temporary speed change.

For which I apologise, and have been trying to be nicer...

... and still failing miserably...

I am a terrible person.

Canadian influence? Canadian influence.

No worries.

You see, naturally, I'm an *******.

Part of my time spend in the Air Force was as a Drill Instructor.

It was fantastic back then, but these days, Confrontation and I have a mixed relationship.

My natural, very-Australian based response is to be an *******, to rub things the wrong way, to generally be a bit of a sarcastic bastard....

... But that's because just about every Australian is like that. At least, Victorian, anyway.

But it doesn't go down well here.