A Carrier Liberty with FC would be a great accompaniment to Yavaris & Salvation, with a mix of X-wings and Scurrgs. I have difficulty getting an AF to fly well with the Nebs, and as a result the thing I miss most about my Yavaris lists is the presence of Flight Controllers.

Now I can FC the X's, Yavaris the bombers, and still have a cohesive task force that can put the hurt on enemy ships through Greater Frontal Firepower. Makes me happy.

And a bomber command center on a transport.... =)

I am sorry everyone, but those of you who still look down on the VSD are just making me laugh so much. Don't get me wrong, I need a good laugh. You guys are just looking at the VSD from a 2D aspect.

If you noticed, we are getting new Turbolasers and Ion Cannon upgrades. This will be an interesting wave.

I am sorry everyone, but those of you who still look down on the VSD are just making me laugh so much. Don't get me wrong, I need a good laugh. You guys are just looking at the VSD from a 2D aspect.

If you noticed, we are getting new Turbolasers and Ion Cannon upgrades. This will be an interesting wave.

Relatively speaking it's still the worst Imperial ship

Edit: Also, are you not still harping on about your Dodonna the Oppressor list? You were being to make Jack a dull boy...

Sometimes I see the ISD as the worst ship at times, at others the Gladiator is. It is all about the use of the ship.

Sometimes I see the ISD as the worst ship at times, at others the Gladiator is. It is all about the use of the ship.

Other than cost, in what way is a VSD better than an ISD? Ever? I mean, I personally feel that the ISD is mildly overcosted, but the VSD is basically good only as a carrier.

At least the other Imperial ships can be built multiple ways and be effective at their roles, the only really effective way to run a VSD is as a carrier and that role is rather heavily encroached upon by the Gozanti now.

The VSD is a corner piece. When you play it, you don't need to go. Fast. In fact speed 1 is usually all you need. Sure there are faster ships that can swing around the the VSD is ponderous and can surprise people when you jump to 2 to catch other ships. Yes you do need a lot of Navigate commands but those are already the strongest commands in the game.

The VSD is a pressure piece. It forces your opponent to play around it and it can actually hurt an opponent if they don't respect it.

As more upgrades come out it gets better. In fact, a Slaved Turret with the new Veteran Gunner will be fun! Rolling ISD levels of red dice, getting the chance to reroll everything if needed. Yup sounds good.

The game relies on perspective. If you, perceive something is weak then you will look at it as weak.

That didn't exactly answer my question

I look at the VSD as weak because it can only be well built to do one thing, and then has to rely on exceptional player skill: other ships can be built multiple ways well and with that same player skill are just simply...well, better.

Gentlemen, there's a VSD thread on the front page if you'd like to take your conversation there. Unless it's about wave 4 and how it may interact with VSDs, it's not really relevant to this thread.

I love the release but I'm getting the sinking feeling that the Liberty won't be getting a defensive upgrade slot. The double brace is great but I'd sleep easier with an ECM.

Lack of defense typically is a death blow for large ships.

Yet she's a mon cal, known for redundant shields and whatnot.

Id be shocked if the liberty wasnt running both retrofits in at least one variant.

That didn't exactly answer my question

I look at the VSD as weak because it can only be well built to do one thing, and then has to rely on exceptional player skill: other ships can be built multiple ways well and with that same player skill are just simply...well, better.

The ISD is imposing but it has a weaker front Arc in terms of arc size. It has versatility but if you lose it that is a HUGE chunk of points lost. That is not only demoralizing but a huge hit to your score. Next, the function of the ISD is not the same as the VSD. The ISD is a go getter. It wants to go out there and take advantage of its speed where as the VSD has to stay a cornerstone.

Next we come to terms of fire power. Not much difference there between the 2 ships. 2 extra dice on the front, 1 on the sides and rear. Oh and those 2 dice are easily remedied by a title that with the advent of the Interdictor possibly getting the use of Projection Experts can mean you have more shields to use to file that attack when needed.

Upgrade wise, the ISD only really has 1 more upgrade slot on both versions. Either the Offensive Retrofit or the Defensive Retrofit.

So all in all the ISD while intimidating is not really that great of a ship with all that taken into consideration.

Id be shocked if the liberty wasnt running both retrofits in at least one variant.

It would be down right silly to not give it both retrofits.

Mon Cal ships are known for adaptability.

Id be shocked if the liberty wasnt running both retrofits in at least one variant.

It would be down right silly to not give it both retrofits.

Mon Cal ships are known for adaptability.

That would be why MC30's cant take Engine Techs....

So, Randomly, here's a Titbit for Veteran Gunners I just realised as I was rulebook browsing...

So, Veteran Gunners has already been maligned because its all dice in your pool... Well, how can we get maximum benefit for that?

We take dice out of the pool!

Of course, this is kind of making the best of a crap sandwich... BUT,

Due to the timing rules, you can roll all of your attack... You can then spend your dice , such as, say, spending ACC icons to lock down tokens...

And Then Reroll... So if your first attack was crap + acc, you can keep the acc, reroll the crap!

You can also Spend a Hit on Precision Strike, before activating your Veteran Gunners Reroll.....

So there's a couple of (yes, I agree, still seriously limited) ways to get the most out of Veteran Gunners.

Or maybe the adaptability is in the fact that there are going to be 4 versions of the ship? Maybe the models we already have are the ones designed to be the carrier and command ship while the new models are going right down the bad guy's throat with ridiculous shielding and heavy firepower? I'm not holding out for the new models having everything including the kitchen sink till we get a bit more info.

So, Randomly, here's a Titbit for Veteran Gunners I just realised as I was rulebook browsing...

So, Veteran Gunners has already been maligned because its all dice in your pool... Well, how can we get maximum benefit for that?

We take dice out of the pool!

Of course, this is kind of making the best of a crap sandwich... BUT,

Due to the timing rules, you can roll all of your attack... You can then spend your dice , such as, say, spending ACC icons to lock down tokens...

And Then Reroll... So if your first attack was crap + acc, you can keep the acc, reroll the crap!

You can also Spend a Hit on Precision Strike, before activating your Veteran Gunners Reroll.....

So there's a couple of (yes, I agree, still seriously limited) ways to get the most out of Veteran Gunners.

If that doesnt get FAQ'd I will be shocked

Yeah man...that would be MEGA shady....

I don't even play Armada; I just came here to see what Admiral Nelson had to say...

Nah he got BSG'd airlocked a few weeks back.....

Yeah man...that would be MEGA shady....

Why would that be Mega Shady?

Its explicitly allowed with the Timing Rules...

Adding Dice. Rerolling Dice. Spending Dice. |

All 3 of those have the same Timing.

As it is your turn, you choose the order in which you activate those.

This is no different then, at long Range, Adding a Black Die due to Defiance, and then adding another Black Die due to Concentrate Fire (Dial).

Yeah man...that would be MEGA shady....

Why would that be Mega Shady?

Its explicitly allowed with the Timing Rules...

Adding Dice. Rerolling Dice. Spending Dice. |

All 3 of those have the same Timing.

As it is your turn, you choose the order in which you activate those.

This is no different then, at long Range, Adding a Black Die due to Defiance, and then adding another Black Die due to Concentrate Fire (Dial).

I'm pretty sure the wording says "all of your dice" not the one's you're going to pick out to lock down tokens.

C'mon man, you know that is going to throw people off or out right turn them off when they see things like that happen, the meta is already rough with intel officer heavy lists.

Yeah man...that would be MEGA shady....

Why would that be Mega Shady?

Its explicitly allowed with the Timing Rules...

Adding Dice. Rerolling Dice. Spending Dice. |

All 3 of those have the same Timing.

As it is your turn, you choose the order in which you activate those.

This is no different then, at long Range, Adding a Black Die due to Defiance, and then adding another Black Die due to Concentrate Fire (Dial).

I'm pretty sure the wording says "all of your dice" not the one's you're going to pick out to lock down tokens.

C'mon man, you know that is going to throw people off or out right turn them off when they see things like that happen, the meta is already rough with intel officer heavy lists.

So what you are saying is, When I "Pick Out", or, more correctly, "SPEND" a Die, I do not follow the rules of "SPEND", in which I remove the die from the attack pool ?

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the "CONFIRE" command.

◊ Spend Accuracy Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its "ACC" icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

• An effect that modifies attack dice can only be resolved during the “Resolve Attacks Effects” step of an attack unless another timing is specified.

• If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

Once they're Spent, they're no longer in the Attack Pool. Ergo, they will not be rerolled, as they no longer exist .

Its no different, than say... You are the Defender... You Spend an Evade Token to remove a Double HIt Red from the Enemy's Attack pool...

Then , you make Lando Reroll all of the Dice.

Apart from the wording "One or More" vs "All", Lando cannot make the opponent reroll the dice that was removed by the Evade, even if he wanted to, because it was removed by the Evade.

And Personally .

I feel its much better to be trying to find legal little tricks to how a Card can be used well, rather than just go "Eh, the Card is Crap." and move on.

So, Randomly, here's a Titbit for Veteran Gunners I just realised as I was rulebook browsing...

So, Veteran Gunners has already been maligned because its all dice in your pool... Well, how can we get maximum benefit for that?

We take dice out of the pool!

Of course, this is kind of making the best of a crap sandwich... BUT,

Due to the timing rules, you can roll all of your attack... You can then spend your dice , such as, say, spending ACC icons to lock down tokens...

And Then Reroll... So if your first attack was crap + acc, you can keep the acc, reroll the crap!

You can also Spend a Hit on Precision Strike, before activating your Veteran Gunners Reroll.....

So there's a couple of (yes, I agree, still seriously limited) ways to get the most out of Veteran Gunners.

If that doesnt get FAQ'd I will be shocked

Edit: I could very well be wrong. . . Hmmm it hasn't mattered till now. . . But yes. . . They are not individual steps but 2 options under the same step.

Wave 4 fleet:

Wave 4 fleet:

YEEEEEEESSSS