Both of my favorite capital ships of both factions finally coming to the game. This pleases me greatly.

Wow, these two ships are the ones I've always wanted!

Also, I'm so happy that with two braces, the Liberty can stand a chance against intel officer. Intel officer can target a brace, and I can use the other one, especially with ECM. Bring it on Demolisher!

Good thoughts Snipa. I think with Wave 3 as well there are going to be so many variables in play that making all or nothing predictions is crazy at this stage. Bomber commands, squadrons and dispersed lists will interact with these things completely differently.

I agree the liberty points something around 110 - its slightly less good straight up than an ISD2, but better than an ISD1 in some (not all) respects.

It's just going to depend heavily on its maneuver chart and upgrade slots. From what we've seen, it could be just a VSD2 with one more red out the front and two more shields shuffled around a bit. It could also be a murdery behemoth if it has good speed, good maneuverability, defensive retrofit, and support teams. I don't think either extreme is the case, but we just don't know yet: it all depends on The Rest Of The Ship that we haven't seen yet.

On the "more points" side, Well two braces, mon cal level shields and capability to take engine techs looks pretty favourable. If its top speed 2 with 1,1 Yaw that's still perfectly acceptable. I cant see speed 3/4 with engine techs being a real proposition for this thing.

MC80 command - 106 points, sure it can take defensive retro but needs to to keep its brace going, and cant ever take gunnery team which most people see as a big draw back. This thing is naturally better without upgrades thanks to the second brace, but obviously doesn't synergise to the same level with ackbar....

Just pointing out, since I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, the interdictor has a blue and a black anti squadron attack. For a ship I always envisioned as almost exclusively support, this thing is remarkably tanky.

Four blue/red from front and side hull zones, plus three out the back, isn't exactly lightly armed - technically it has one more dice than a VSD, they're just more evenly spread. Plus, in terms of shielding, it only has one less overall than than the VSD, and has two on that vulnerable rear.

Throw in the extra engineering point and the extra hull point, and that the expense you're shelling out for is mostly in awesome upgrades. I have a soft spot for the VSD, but this beauty will more than hold its own in a fire fight.

Exactly my point. I was expecting this ship to be only slightly better armed than a raider and with pathetic defense that made you want to keep it out of harms way, but with all kinds of support abilities. Powerful battery armaments, super anti squadron dice, lots of shields, 5!!!! Engineering and this thing actually comes across as a powerful front line combat ship before you even get to the support abilities. Not actually sure I like that.

I like it very much. And, in all seriousness, I think they'd have struggled to put out a medium-base ship that costs more than a VSD and doesn't have a slightly better armoury. I think it makes sense, both within the context of the game, and in the context of the world. The VSD was birthed in the Clone Wars, and therefore a slightly out of date ship by the time we're talking about, both in terms of speed, and (to a lesser extent) in style of weaponry. The Interdictor, as a new breed with experimental capabilities, would likely have learnt the lesson, and retained its heavy armament despite those not being its primary purpose.

And, in all seriousness, I think they'd have struggled to put out a medium-base ship that costs more than a VSD

Why did it need to cost more? I was expecting it to cost a lot less, but have severely limited offensive ability. I expected its cost to be high enough to make you ask yourself "do I really want to spend this many points on a ship that may never make a useful attack?" And cost low enough for the answer to be "yes, for those support abilities, yes I do".

FFG meeting:

"So, everyone is going crazy for winged Calamaris and Interdictors on Shapeways. Do you think maybe we should release our own versions of those ships?"

"Nah, let's do flotillas!"

*3 months later*

"OK so yes we should maybe have released those ships."

(The trouble with living in a different timezone to this game's main player base is you miss out on a lot of fun conversation. Still, a nice morning read to wake up to! )

I'm not going to jump in on debates that have already been had, but I do want to take a moment to reflect on what this wave means for the short- and long-term health of the game. When Wave 3 was released, many were disappointed and confused, and they weren't being unreasonable (even if some went about it in an unreasonable way); it bucked the trend by releasing an entire wave that consisted of only two small ships. People rallied to what those ships might offer once introduced, but still, there were questions around whether the game was stagnating or falling down the list of FFG's priorities. Most sensible people knew that the game wasn't dead, but there were concerns for its constitution...

This wave has completely countered those concerns, but, more importantly, has set up new expectations for the long-term future of the game. Whether their decision to split Wave 3 into Wave 3 and 4 (if indeed there was any decision at all) was based on production issues is neither here nor there; it looks likely that, in future, we'll get small waves more regularly, and that those waves will be varied in their content. And I for one am not just happy with that, it's what I'd prefer. So what this wave allows us to do is to pre-empt those moments in the game's development when people are disappointed or concerned with a wave, because a precedent has been set.

The Liberty and Interdictor, I think most of us can agree, are great additions to our fleets, and certainly don't suggest a game in its death throes. Given the speculation over what the future may hold, I think that we can now rest assured that FFG will continue to make this a better and better game for as long as it remains popular. And, given that these are two iconic ships, I'm also confident that they'll help to attract new players to the game; I know if I were talking to a future newcomer, I'd be recommending that their beginning purchases included a Liberty over the old-school MC80, and certainly an Interdictor over a Victory.

Essentially, this is very good news, and hopefully will mean slightly less calm around seemingly sub-par releases in future.

The new slicer upgrade could be very good at stopping the interdictor from using all those engineering points. Ok they will still get a good amount with a token but if that is the plan to stop damage it maybe nullified a little.

I think one of the things with the liberty is it will mean a rebel fleet will be able to advance and shoot effectively and stay alive, unlike most rebel ships at the moment.

So there is the "Suppressor Refit" and the "Combat Refit".

The "Suppressor Refit" appearing to be 90 points.

Do we think the combat will be more or less? Going off the rebel transports you may think more?The combat version doesnt appear to have mind blowing battery firepower, although its broadside is OK, will the suppressor be even weaker?

Will the suppressor be 2x Experimental Refit slots to allow multiple grav well effects?

I reckon the Liberty is going to open up a whole new set of list and deployment options for the Rebs. A Liberty with flanking Nebs hurtling at speed 3 (im hoping it's gonna be speed 3) towards an ISD with a chasing repair flotilla anyone?. A totally different kettle of fish from Ackbar broadsiders or MM MC30 lists.

Eeeh, I don't know about that Norsehound. It seems a lot of people are still thinking of the game as being Imperial vs. Rebel, but it's also blue on blue violence as well: An interdictor and gozanti combination has the tools to really cut down a Demolisher rush before it starts.

Demolisher might be more useful against Rebels, but perhaps less so against Imperials (in theory, of course and providing there's the Interdictor present).

I do think the Liberty will be a little cheaper, probably... what, the 90ish points? Large base, but only 3 native defense tokens rather than 4. One less squadron value at least. It's got only 11 shields (same as the MC30) versus 15 on the MC80, and some pretty thin aft, portm and starboard ablative magi-armour. It's got 2 black AA for the battle cruiser (usually the 'battle' version is more pricey, correct?) rather than black blue or double blue, and they're valued a little lower than blues. It's got a nice front battery but it's not really much more than the MC80 Assault, it's got one less blue on the rear, and sides equivalent to an MC80's fronts. The bonus of course is the potential to take gunnery teams and a yet unseen maneuverability chart that could potentially match an ISD. The turbolaser slot auto-include, well, remains to be seen given that the new stuff is speculation.

Re: Feeling slighted/feeling doom about the upcoming meta (specifically regarding Norshound's comment)

I strongly counsel patience on this one as earlier reactions to wave two, even the opinions held by a majority (or at least a vocal minority) here on the forums trying out their crystal balls, have generally been inaccurate. Does anyone remember the pre-wave-two Fireball terror threads? I do. You still see Fireball lists from time to time but they are not currently the meta breaking monsters many thought they would be. Same with Ackbar fleets, which were temporarily ascendant as well. For another lesson, look to the lowly Raider: even after it was released we had many people on the forum swearing up and down that it was an absolutely useless piece of garbage and then people started winning with it (specifically, clontroper5's Vassal tournament victory was the win heard 'round the Armada world). It took MONTHS after wave 2 was released, much less the time from which the Raider and its upgrades were known to us, for the community at large to come around on this single ship. We'll see how things actually fare on the table and I'm sure all of us will be pleasantly surprised at how things shake out. I know I have been with wave two, anyways, and I don't expect that trend to change with wave three or wave four.

Re: the Liberty MC80

I'm assuming it's in the ballpark of an ISD in terms of cost (probably a little bit less, similar to the MC80) but there's a lot of uncertainty depending on its nav chart and upgrade slots. It has less total durability than an ISD due to a less total shields (by 1) and less total hull (by 3). It does have the two Braces, which are nice, but it seems to me (could be wrong) that it's lacking a defensive retrofit slot for an ECM which can keep its one Redirect or green Braces available when it needs them. I will also note that Heavy Turbolaser Turrets are extremely legit against a Liberty MC80, especially once you start firing at a low/no shield zone as the dual Braces don't help as much as they used to - you ideally want to Brace and then Redirect damage off to another hull zone (particularly if you're getting attacked in the sides or rear) but you can't do both well at once, and those hull points will start going quick. If your opponent is running both Nebulon-Bs and Liberty MC80s, those HTTs are going to be earning their pay, believe you me.

I dunno. I can agree that the Interdictor offers some interesting support options. For instance, if you activate first, you can double up on tractor beams (known because the INT can take Quads) and G8s to stun any ship medium or smaller by two speeds (a speed 2 ship won't move) for the Demolisher to annihilate. Since it can take engineering teams you can also give them projection experts to make use of engineering 5 to throw shields around (so long as the INT doesn't get shot at- it's going to need those shields).

But I don't think these things, or the Gozanti upgrades we've seen, can bring the VSD back to viability. You can stun targets for the VSDs to catch up or use the INT to reinforce the VSD shields, but the upgrades we've seen do not increase the protection of the VSD or increase the attack potential of those ships.

No, I see the Interdictor being more of a help for ship types that are already dominating Imperial build strategies right now (blue-black assault ships and Rhymerballs). They won't help VSDs or ISDs really, and depending on the cost you might not be able to fit them into multiple ISD lists either. It seems if I want to continue to play Empire going forward I'll have to take a blue-black assault list. I've resisted doing so since sullust since I wanted to play with hi-hull gunboats instead, but it seems that's not in FFG's intention for the Empire.

The Liberty looks pretty awesome for the Rebellion, meanwhile. Ultra-resilience out of two brace tokens and a good battery out the front yoked to gunnery teams or whatever. So long as the flanks are covered with escorts I (and everyone) will maximize the forward arc's battery potential, aim it at a target, and then plow through whatever you want to destroy. Since the side and rear arcs are going to be hard to hit (without Demo), you're already taking damage in the place where you want it to happen, and you'll be certain to cut in half whatever your opponent is throwing at it. All we need to know is how costly it is, so we can compare to the ISD and know what upgrades to squeeze in to make it match or exceed the presence an ISD brings to the table for the same amount of points.

Great models and content, I am very pleased with the way this game is going.

The interdictor is going to be great, but I especially like the unequal large/medium ships in this wave starts to differentiate the two sides.

Double-brace on a large ship is crazy. Liberty seems designed for flying straight at an enemy ship, ramming it right in the face, and keeping firing until it dies.

The double contain tokens on the Interdictor are a bit puzzling to me. I would probably rather have any other token than a second contain. I guess if you really hate crits it's cool. Anyone actually excited about having 2 contains? I might just use Needa and swap one out.

Yeah, two Contains is...kinda crap. The one on the ISD is fine but I tend to not care about discarding it. Two seems like some pretty ridiculous overkill and, possibly, something that might be hiking its price up (even if just a little.)

I mean, it's hardly the cheapest base hull around at 90 odd points per ship before you even factor in upgrades.

You guys arent seeing it right. Here we have a ship with 5 engineering and a tonne of shields. With Tarkin tokens thats 8 engineering points a turn if you want it, or in other words 4 shields. How many hull damage can someone do in a round? Those contains mean that there are no nasty crits to heal away (except with crit upgrades), meaning the Interdictor can concentrate on regenerating shields.

Its PERFECT synergy.

For the Liberty name, it could be "battle carrier" as the other name. Given that the Liberty title is fighter-centric...

Also, I want to know more about the fighter coo*** card that we see on the interdictor

You guys arent seeing it right. Here we have a ship with 5 engineering and a tonne of shields. With Tarkin tokens thats 8 engineering points a turn if you want it, or in other words 4 shields. How many hull damage can someone do in a round? Those contains mean that there are no nasty crits to heal away (except with crit upgrades), meaning the Interdictor can concentrate on regenerating shields.

Its PERFECT synergy.

As I said to Dras, and you mentioned, often there are nasty crit upgrades anyway - most notably APTs. Contains have no effect on them, and if you're taking enough incoming fire to be concerned about burning two Contains then I think there are bigger fish to fry than a couple of crit effects (many of which are not that crippling with 5-9 engineering points.)

If you're taking 3+ big shots, you're simply taking too much damage far too quickly, is what I'm getting at. Contains don't really help your ships survive an engagement, they help you recuperate from them, proactively, but needing two is either overkill (as you limit the number of incoming shots) or irrelevant (as the number of shots overwhelms your actual defences and you explode.)

I am sorry everyone, but those of you who still look down on the VSD are just making me laugh so much. Don't get me wrong, I need a good laugh. You guys are just looking at the VSD from a 2D aspect.

If you noticed, we are getting new Turbolasers and Ion Cannon upgrades. This will be an interesting wave.

I'm betting the other version is just a "Cruiser", after all the Home One version does carrier duty. This winged goddess Battlecruiser does the toe to toe with ISDs. So I'd bet it's not going to add another super carrier model to the mix. Doesn't mean you might not have multiple offensive upgrade slots like an ISD-I, but I doubt it will have higher natural squadron points.

FFG really is making certain that I have to allocate all my gaming dollars to them. I know I'll be buying at least 2 Gozanti, a GR-75, an Interdictor and a Liberty. And that's assuming I don't magically find a use for more of any one of them. Bastids!

I am sorry everyone, but those of you who still look down on the VSD are just making me laugh so much. Don't get me wrong, I need a good laugh. You guys are just looking at the VSD from a 2D aspect.

If you noticed, we are getting new Turbolasers and Ion Cannon upgrades. This will be an interesting wave.

Edit: Also, are you not still harping on about your Dodonna the Oppressor list? You were being to make Jack a dull boy...

I could be wrong, but two contains is making me think that the Interdictor might have an exhaust ability that lets it contain special crits.

I could be wrong, but two contains is making me think that the Interdictor might have an exhaust ability that lets it contain special crits.

That'd be awesome and make the second Contain **** good. Here's hoping.

Did anyone notice that the sculpt of the interdictor is actually the interdictor cruiser from rebels and not the legends immobilizer 418 model? In fact, i think this interdictor and the immobilizer 418 are two entirely differt things in the new canon. When you compare this model with the vsd (both on a medium base) this one is bigger (which also explains why it has more hull than the vsd) which means its approximately 1,000 meters in length. That is quite a bit bigger than the 600 meter immobilizer 418.

Babs out!

I'm realllllly hoping the liberty has a carrier variant. I need me one of those for my a wing swarm.

I am sorry everyone, but those of you who still look down on the VSD are just making me laugh so much. Don't get me wrong, I need a good laugh. You guys are just looking at the VSD from a 2D aspect.

If you noticed, we are getting new Turbolasers and Ion Cannon upgrades. This will be an interesting wave.

I'm extremely curious about the new Tubolaser and Ion Cannon upgrades, myself, and I would love to rethink my stance on VSD-IIs (currently pretty negative) and Raider-IIs (currently slightly skeptical and favoring Raider-Is), both of which feel let down by the more niche wave 2 Ion Cannon upgrades*. Some good Ion Cannon upgrades for either would definitely help. Plus obviously both VSDs and ISDs are dying to know about those new Turbolaser upgrades.

I'm curious about a Tractor Beam/G8 Interdictor being able to be a VSD buddy to slow down ships trying to avoid Ol' Tubbykins, His Wilford Brimliness. There's obviously some synergy with slow-mo Interdictor for varying fleet builds, but the VSDs and to a lesser extent ISDs seem to suffer the most against the standard Rebel swirl tactic (particularly Ackbar), and slowdowns assist there. With Gladiators/Raiders you often get your shots in and then either ram to keep yourself and your opponent in place (often against the front hull zone, which is weak on most Rebel ships) or you come in on the flanks and then shoot past to the rear to turn around and make more attacks by turn 4 or 5. The Interdictor won't make a big difference in that basic playstyle and may be too slow and/or unmaneuverable to keep up with a more fluid Raider/Gladiator fleet, giving the opponent a more static target to isolate and pick on. I guess we'll see.

*Disclaimer: Leading Shots is a legit upgrade for ISDs/MC80s once you get to a high enough pool of dice and SW7s are swell on CR90Bs in particular, but neither the Raider-II nor the VSD-II seem to jive particularly well with either.

I'm realllllly hoping the liberty has a carrier variant. I need me one of those for my a wing swarm.

For what it's worth, even if the highest Squadrons value for it is 2, you can always Raymus Antilles + Liberty for effectively Squadrons 4. Liberty can equip Flight Controllers as well. The question then becomes "well, why not an Assault Frigate instead, though?" which... I have no great answer to that. Knowing how FFG tends to design its Rebel ships, I would expect the second variant for the Liberty to be a bit more squadron-happy and a bit less red-dice happy (probably swap one or two red dice for blue dice) and thus the other variant is likely Squadrons 3. I'm still not convinced that it has Defense or Offensive Retrofit slots, though (none of the bottom level splayed cards are and all the top level cards show humanoids and are thus likely crew and officer upgrades), and losing out on Boosted Comms or Expanded Hangars might still preference the Assault Frigate, especially given that Weapons Team slot on the Liberty is already being fought over by Gunnery Team and Veteran Gunners.

It got mentioned earlier in this thread, but I'm also curious about Interdictors as Projection Experts bases for Imperials. Engineering 5 is pretty strong. With Tarkin around for the ride you can token + dial for 8 Engineering points, pass two shields elsewhere, and still have enough points left (6) to regenerate the two shields you gave up AND regenerate one more.

A Carrier Liberty with FC would be a great accompaniment to Yavaris & Salvation, with a mix of X-wings and Scurrgs. I have difficulty getting an AF to fly well with the Nebs, and as a result the thing I miss most about my Yavaris lists is the presence of Flight Controllers.

Now I can FC the X's, Yavaris the bombers, and still have a cohesive task force that can put the hurt on enemy ships through Greater Frontal Firepower. Makes me happy.