This popped up in my head from the chess clock post.

During your opponent's turn and he seems to be taking his time placing a squadron or deciding what ship to activate, what do you do?

Do you just stand there?

So, do you measure distances for your next activation? Can you verify arcs? Thereby getting into your opponent's head on your next move.

Can you do anything other than stand there?

What can you or can you not do?

Is it bad sportsmanship to be doing things while it is your opponent's turn?

Can you use unsanctioned tools

Thoughts?

You are allowed to use the measuring tool at any time. You can only use the maneuver tool when you get to the determine course step.

So measure away. I do it all the time to speed game play up. This includes my Handy Dandy Laser Line!

This popped up in my head from the chess clock post.

During your opponent's turn and he seems to be taking his time placing a squadron or deciding what ship to activate, what do you do?

Do you just stand there?

So, do you measure distances for your next activation? Can you verify arcs? Thereby getting into your opponent's head on your next move.

Can you do anything other than stand there?

What can you or can you not do?

Is it bad sportsmanship to be doing things while it is your opponent's turn?

Can you use unsanctioned tools

Thoughts?

I watch them

Yes stand there

no i measure when they are done, i will LoS my arcs but generally to help them. If you need to get into your opponents head to win, you need to reevaluate your strategy.

fiddle your thumbs, rock back and fourth, sit

you can: be courteous, assist with measuring and movements, participate in the game. You can not: be contentious, refuse to assist in gameplay. be snooty. whip it out.

Yes, its very bad sportsmanship

If a TO allows you to, sure.

thoughts:

Seriously. If getting in to your opponents head is the way you plan to win a game or event. Stay home. Would you like it if your trying to activate your ships or think about a maneuver and your opponent is just yammering on about whatever the **** to mess with you?

Play the game. Be courteous. You are playing a game with your opponent. They help you, you help them. Refusing to do any of these things makes you a negative play experience, a ****, and may result in throat punches and slashed tires.

Lol, Berger.

To get into my opponents head I talk about the level 17 Cleric of Torm I had in a Forgotten Realms AD&D campaign. He was pretty sweet. Ok, I jest, I never had a character...cuz I always ran the game as a DM. /sigh

I recommend getting involved in the game during your opponents turn. Help with their movements by bracing the maneuver tool, marking objects that need to be moved, or measure range of things that will speed up the play during your turn. I try all these things but I still kinda play slowish, ie. usually to time.

seriously though. I've seen so much "player management"/bullying in WM and Hordes that it makes me violent when I see it. The excuse of " i want to win so...." is not acceptable. I have local players for WM and Guildball that are straight dishonest and cheaters as soon as any sort of ego boost is on the line. We can have a fun time and game casually. As soon as its a tournament or for some prize they become the biggest anti-greeblehaulers this side of dantooine.

I am really tired of it. If i wanted to be bullied id go back to high school.

Grow up, play a fun engaging game with your opponent, be kind and courteous, and if you lose, git gud....

Ok, I jest, I never had a character...cuz I always ran the game as a DM. /sigh

... and a Meme was my 3800th Post. Wow.

Anyhow.

Me? I try to stay focused on my game, keeping the attitude light. Measuring at occasion, but for the most part, trying to keep it casual...

... However. let's face it. People know me.

I have the Reputation that extends from Here to Real Life.

I'll most probably be splitting attention from my game to answer other game's questions as either a Judge, or as the League Organiser... It just comes with the territory...

Which is why I try to be as casual as possible, as light-hearted and joking when I'm not doing something... I want to respect my opponent, give him the chance to do what he needs to, and make him feel relaxed, as there's nothing enjoyable about having a bundle of stress on the other side of the table... Its like playing with a bomb that has nothing but Red Wires... (Cut the Red One!)

seriously though. I've seen so much "player management"/bullying in WM and Hordes that it makes me violent when I see it. The excuse of " i want to win so...." is not acceptable. I have local players for WM and Guildball that are straight dishonest and cheaters as soon as any sort of ego boost is on the line. We can have a fun time and game casually. As soon as its a tournament or for some prize they become the biggest anti-greeblehaulers this side of dantooine.

I am really tired of it. If i wanted to be bullied id go back to high school.

Grow up, play a fun engaging game with your opponent, be kind and courteous, and if you lose, git gud....

You don't have to bully though. I have a mindset that everything people do is a form of manipulation. Manipulation is neither good nor bad. It is what ever connotation you choose to give it.

Laughing, joking, etc is a form of manipulation. It is meant to relax your opponent and make them feel comfortable. I have seen this used for good and for bad.

Being serious tells people that this game matters. You can use that to convey respect for your opponent or an air of futility.

So, bullying is not the only thing that occurs when you measure during your opponents turn. This is a game of information. Sometimes misinformation can help you.

This popped up in my head from the chess clock post.

During your opponent's turn and he seems to be taking his time placing a squadron or deciding what ship to activate, what do you do?

Do you just stand there?

So, do you measure distances for your next activation? Can you verify arcs? Thereby getting into your opponent's head on your next move.

Can you do anything other than stand there?

What can you or can you not do?

Is it bad sportsmanship to be doing things while it is your opponent's turn?

Can you use unsanctioned tools

Thoughts?

As Modise well knows since we've played each other a bunch, I think doing anything to both aid your opponent and help the game move along is a good thing. Friendly chit-chat, sure! If you can't be at least a little social while you're gaming, then you're not exactly flying casual in my book.

If I'm looking at arcs etc, I'm thinking more in terms of keeping up with my own fleet or validating we didn't accidentally do something wrong for whatever reason.

While I care what another guy is thinking, I'm not in the least bit interested in trying to do some set of actions to make them either think, rethink or influence them that these ain't the droids they're looking for. I'm pretty sure before that age of 10 I'd worked out I have zero Jedi powers. Pretty. Sure.

Now if I paint a shark mouth and add a fin on my ISDs ... then it's total mental game on :-D

Back when I played WFB, I used to mind-games with what I brought with me...

My First deployment was always a 10x10 block of Zombies... It was only 300 points of my army, but it took up almost a Square Foot on the Tabletop.

... No-one paid any attention to anything else I deployed after that. They were focused there.

Back when I played WFB, I used to mind-games with what I brought with me...

My First deployment was always a 10x10 block of Zombies... It was only 300 points of my army, but it took up almost a Square Foot on the Tabletop.

... No-one paid any attention to anything else I deployed after that. They were focused there.

the mind games I'm talking about have nothing to do with game relevant psyche outs.

Warmachine uses chess clocks. savvy opponents can find ways to ask honest questions they already know the answer too, assuming their opponent wont flip the clock over. over the course of a game you will slowly see this player get a 10 minute lead on the death clock (if you clock you lose via assassination). thats gamesmenship and bullying. this isnt the NFL or NBA the intentional foul doesn't belong in tabletop gaming.

example:

opponent ponders, deep in thought, figuring out what to do when suddenly....

"what upgrades are on that ship again?"

concentration broken he answers the question, trying to get back to contemplation...

" oh you took this upgrade, I like this upgrade instead have you tried this upgrade?"

answering the question and maybe taking the bait into a long discussion about one upgrade vs another, they realize they are wasting time and just say YOLO and activate a ship to move the game along....

this is what grinds my gears. let someone take the time and play the best game they can. Sure you may win the game cuz that guy made a sub optimal play because you gamed him and kept him distracted. If you need to use these tactics to win it tells me you are insecure about your ability to play the game.

Harsh, yes. the gamesmenship needs to stop.

One of the reasons why I'm so vehemently opposed to Chess Clocks in that thread.

One of the reasons why I'm so vehemently opposed to Chess Clocks in that thread.

at least with a chess clock you can clock to them to answer their question (at least my WM standards) which puts an end to it immediately. a lot of people don't feel comfortable cuz... nerds.... and they don't want to be perceived as a ****.

I think a great thing to do during your opponent's turn is to ask helpful questions. If you see them measuring and going back and forth over a particular action, ask them their intent. "Are you trying to get in range of X but stay out of range of Y?" Then help them figure out if it's possible. This is especially helpful by mid- and late game, when their ships might be on your side of the table, and you have a better angle to see. Or in squadron fights, where it can be tricky to say exactly where things are. This actually calls back to an old thread about how people handle measuring and squadron "nudging." I find it easier to ask what my opponent is attempting and then helping them check to see if it's possible. if I'm going to win, I want to win by playing the better game, not nitpicking every thing my opponent does or other nonsense. It would drive me crazy if my opponent sat idly by while I measured a squadron's movement near their side of the table, clearly declared my intent, placed my squadron and picked up my dice, only to have them whip out their measuring tool and say, "Nah, son. Out of range by a smidge." Rage.

And I find my opponent planning ahead to be great, because I prefer games that move along. If I'm maneuvering my ship that's all the way on one side of the table, and your next activation is all the way on the other side, absolutely start measuring for your activation. What I'm doing won't affect your next move at all, so if you have it planned and you just do it, that just moves the game along.

I would agree, though, that intentionally distracting/hurrying your opponent is bull. If you need to rely on that to win, well, you're just not that good at the game, apparently. I'm a very social, very talkative guy (Berger can attest to that, i.e. Mannfred and Sons), but if I see my opponent deep in thought, I'm not going to intentionally distract them from it.

I read the rule book between turns and act as though I know nothing before I get "lucky" and table my opponent.

I'm usually either mulling what I'm going to do next, or if I already know, then letting my brain get a break from thinking so much and zoning out a little