Clontroopers list. The weaknesses of a VSD individually, are also its strengths in a fleet. Think command fire dial.

[ EMPIRE FLEET (395 points)

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Grand Moff Tarkin - Weapons Liaison (114)

2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison - Gunnery Team (83)

3 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison - Gunnery Team (83)

4 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison - Gunnery Team (83)

5 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

6 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

7 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

8 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

This is what I am looking at using when wave 3 hits. I use the 3x VSD flight deck set up 75% of the time.

Alpha Strike Group 1
Author: jpersons73

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Minefields

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Grand Moff Tarkin ( 38 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Suppressor ( 4 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
7 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 63 points)

List

That is a nice composition you have there. I am familiar with the corner slow roll, its one of my favorite ways to manoeuvre those wedges. With the squadrons would you prefer to engage the enemy or be engaged upon with the space superiority contingent? Presuming it's IG 88, Mauler and the TIE advanced units/ possibly even Dengar thrown in if the bombers look relatively safe. I like to get the first hit in with my CAP to cut their DPS if they also rely on space superiority squadrons.

List

Squadrons light, I like it. But I will just swap out the firesprays for TIEs, more bodies means more time before bombers get me. I presume this is a VASSAL list since it has wave 3 units. I'll go check with my circle to see if they are cool with proxy units. I should have CR90's that can be used for that.

Also I'll have to swap out the Gladiators for something else. People are still sensitive about it, Rebel centric group mind you.

I prefer to alpha, unless they have an unactivated Yavaris. Usually pushing Iggy, Mauler and a pair of Advanceds into something is enough to keep your opponent's squadrons busy, so you don't have to worry as much about them trying to engage your Bombers. I'll usually have Dengar in there as well, for the Counter and so my fighters can bug out of necessary.

Nah, decided the assault frigate is generally terrible, does nothing well, only everything average...

Ginkapo - the sarcasm may be lost in text but... that was sarcasm right? The AF is The Best Ship In The Game!

Ref. VSD - it's a solid lump of 8 hull, 10 shields with a bucket load of dice at bargain points. Give an VSD I expanded launchers and some Nav orders and it'll give an MC80 problems.

I think the chat about its failings are more personal preference than reality.

Nah, decided the assault frigate is generally terrible, does nothing well, only everything average...

Ginkapo - the sarcasm may be lost in text but... that was sarcasm right? The AF is The Best Ship In The Game!

Best at what? No sarcasm.

Not particularly manouverable

Not particularly powerful

Not particularly tough

Not a squadron multiplier

Adaptable to any and everything! And so cheap!

Can be fitted into every Admiral's benefits (admittedly some more than others)

And such a beautiful model!

With the announcement of wave 4 and the utter sexiness of the Interdictor, I've finally decided to take the plunge and make the short hop from X-Wing to Armada.

The relevance of this to this thread of course comes from the fact that the starter box comes with a VSD, and so my question is - how well does the VSD work as a backup to an ISD, which is very likely to be purchase #2?

My preliminary thoughts, coming from a place of near-complete ignorance into the subtleties of the game, would be to use the VSD as a cheap carrier in support of a tricked-out ISD II. Are there any upgrades other than the fairly obvious squadron support ones that I should consider for a Victory in such a role?

You've got the basics of it - point-for-point, it is one of the most efficient carriers in the game. Especially since its still wedded to a medium ship frame, and has guns point where it wants to go.

Come wave three, it loses the point for point efficiency, as the Gozanti will be cheaper - but those are, of course, wedded to smaller, more fragile ship frames.

There are numerous threads, this one included, where the viability of the victory is debated.

I will not lie, I am biased to the fact that it is, because I enjoy what it brings to the table, that no-one else can. The closest analogy you can get is the AFMK-II for the rebellion, and honestly, it doesn't compare in so many ways.

Are there any upgrades other than the fairly obvious squadron support ones that I should consider for a Victory in such a role?

VSD I, boosted comms

Save the points for the rest of the fleet. Thats all you need

Neat, I figured as much. I'm guesstimating that a tricked-out ISD, carrier VSD, a couple of raiders and a bunch of squadrons should see me about the 400-point mark and be fairly effective, though perhaps not the most focussed of fleets.

To keep the ball rolling, I've got a slight tangent to the VSD-viability question: what ships, and builds thereof, work best alongside the Victory in its various incarnations?

It all depends on what you want to do with your fleet. The VSD works well with other VSDs, mainly because they can all serve as carriers for a serious Rhymerball (which is a lot of Bombers with Major Rhymer) and have a lot of hull and have a good amount of dice. Honestly, they can serve as the carrier in almost any build. They could also serve as a flank protector for an ISD, but you might be able to get away with a Raider or two at better points. Unless, of course, you want it to dual-role as protecting the ISD's flank and serving as a carrier.

If I am able, I always try to find points to spare to run Warlord and H9's, which is a trusty combo that gives some really good dice manipulation.

Then I try and position my VSD so that my front arc will hit a ship and my side arc will hit has many squadrons as I can find balled up. Since carriers are often a prime target for Fireballs and the like, this creates a hazardous no fly zone where squadrons will be taking damage from VSD no matter what, and is handy for making those red dice a little more predictable.

If I am able, I always try to find points to spare to run Warlord and H9's, which is a trusty combo that gives some really good dice manipulation.

Then I try and position my VSD so that my front arc will hit a ship and my side arc will hit has many squadrons as I can find balled up. Since carriers are often a prime target for Fireballs and the like, this creates a hazardous no fly zone where squadrons will be taking damage from VSD no matter what, and is handy for making those red dice a little more predictable.

If your running a VSD 2 rather than warlord I would recommend SW-7 Ion Cannons.

The problem there is that you're running a VSD-II.

I never run them. I can't justify the 12 point bump to swap blue dice for black with no other changes. At least the 10 points for the ISD-II gets you a Defensive upgrade so you can take ECMs, and even then I prefer the cheaper ISD-I because I'm less likely to dump points into it. I'm not saying it's a bad ship, I just can't justify the cost in my mind.

Funny part is that it is the same cost as a VSD-1 with those upgrades. :3

VSD I slaved turrets, Intel officer, Vader feels very good... 86 points and is likely the cheapest long range dice the imperial get in the game... 5 reds with cf spam, Vader rerolls the trash, nets usually 4-5 damage with good chance for accuracy, with Intel threatening brace, at long range!!!! Decreased maneuverability is less of a problem at long range because that wide front arc covers a ton of real estate... had ships end up in side arc black range a lot because VSD can't turn, but slaved plus CF is still, 3 reds 2 blacks, pretty much stock front arc...

I haven't tried it without Intel officer but my feeling is that Intel netted at least 2 more damage per volley, likely 6 damage over game, so I think IO is worth it/necessary...

Thanks to easternking for inspiring me to play with VSD's in a non carrier role...

I vote for the Fierce Wave 1 version of vsd 2 with warlord, H9, and whatever else you want. Not really meta anymore but the dice manipulation with that setup is incredibly fun

As is always the case, keeping your objectives in mind is critical. as already mentioned, they make a good carrier with boosted comms. they are great at area denial. I think of them as something to use for blockade tactics. their main purpose is to sit there and say "bring it". Really good for the contested outpost scenario and others where you need to sit and let them come to you. In these sort of situations, a big chunk of steel with lots of guns does the job quite well. it's not supposed to be a mini ISD. I'm glad it's not.

I see this is still going on. A few quick notes:

• I have seen the VSD1 used effectively in three configurations:
  • Cheap carrier (no upgrades, or just boosted comms, flight controllers, expanded hangar bay in some combination)
  • Cheap tip of the spear (VSD1 with APT, maybe OE, Screed as commander)
  • Flanker protection (VSD1 with Needa and TRC, or VSD1 with XI7 and nothing else)

In all cases, the key is not overcomplicating it. Keep the ship cheap and purpose built. In that configuration, it works very well because in a hull/shields for points comparison, it's fantastic.

I have not seen the VSD2 used effectively, and the problem there is that the points for an upgrade on a VSD are the same as they are on an ISD. So while the base ship is much cheaper, once you add upgrades, the cheapness disparity is low enough that the ISD is usually the right value. On the other hand, a super cheap VSD1 (say APT and nothing else) is 78 points, which is way cheaper than even a butt naked ISD1, and from the front arc basically packs as much punch when you consider the APT (especially if you took screed).

The other part of using them effectively is understanding you will be outmaneuvered. This is part of why they have strong synergy with Rhymer; the least maneuverable element of the Imperial fleet is supported by the most maneuverable element of the Imperial fleet and they cover for each other. You have to play the VSD conservatively, however, or things will be to the side of / behind it for the entire game. Know how all your ships fly and use them together. Know not to rush in and have three turns of the enemy behind you (you'd rather stall out at speed zero/one and start engaging on turn 4 so there's not as much time to flank you). The VSD is the ship of the patient and deliberate admiral.

TL;DR - keep it cheap and drive patiently.

The VSD is the ship of the patient and deliberate admiral.

This. When I first started a triple Vic list, I was not patient enough with the Vics or with my bombers. I can't tell you the number of times I flew my bombers out of range, or rushed my Vics in at Speed Two, only to be flanked or completely surrounded. The Vics can push a Rhymerball around very, very well, but you also want to get some work out of their respectable front arcs. Even if you're going slow and steady, and only chucking red dice for a while, that's fine. Don't expect to get more than one shot off with your black dice, but maneuver in such a way that your one shot will hurt.

If you want to fly balls to the wall with high speed maneuvers and daring turns, the triple Vic list is not for you. But Glads and Raiders are perfect for that play style. You can even do a hybrid. A Vic-I carrier pushing a few squadrons and maybe a Fireball (Rhymer with Firesprays), while a Glad and some Raiders zip around.

But keep your Vics cheap. They can't take ECM. They're slow and clumsy, which makes them predictable and easy to flank. Concentrated fire will take them down. Quickly. Save your upgrades for more-durable ISDs, or more-maneuverable Gladiators.

Neat, I figured as much. I'm guesstimating that a tricked-out ISD, carrier VSD, a couple of raiders and a bunch of squadrons should see me about the 400-point mark and be fairly effective, though perhaps not the most focussed of fleets.

To keep the ball rolling, I've got a slight tangent to the VSD-viability question: what ships, and builds thereof, work best alongside the Victory in its various incarnations?

You may want to think about buying the vsd upgrade pack as it's got a couple of cards you will want including Motti who beefs up your vsds with two more hull each and your ISD with three more hull. With fighters that gives you a nice Learner fleet.