However whatever works for the VSD should work even better for an ISD.

As a general rule, that is correct. However, it should be noted that ISDs are roughly 40-50% more expensive than a VSD of the same number (ISD-I vs. VSD-I, etc.). This gap begins to close when you put the same upgrade cards on them, however.

Example:

A naked ISD-II is 120 points

A naked VSD-II is 85 points

The ISD is 41% more expensive than the VSD

An ISD-II (using only upgrades a VSD-II could take, for purposes of this example) w/ Gunnery Team, XI7 Turbolasers, Intel Officer, and Leading Shots is (120+7+6+7+4) 144 points.

A VSD-II using the same upgrades is (85+7+6+7+4) 109 points

The ISD is 32% more expensive than the VSD

You can make the argument that the naked versions are equivalently priced given what you get but once enough upgrades get involved it becomes clear that springing for the extra 32% (as in the example above) is a much better use of your points. Hence my basic argument that the less upgrades you're putting on your VSDs, the better. It allows them to do their thing most cost-effectively. In a competition versus moderate-to-heavily upgraded ISDs, it becomes more difficult to justify their cost.

Thanks for the great tips, I really like the VSD but I often just can't justify loading it up with points when you have the ISD so close by. But I still believe in this old warhorse.

With very clever deployment it should work well. Maybe even baiting the opponent to it. Perhaps running just a horde of them naked will be good.

I am focusing on the VSD because demolisher got banned in my local circle. Tensions still get high when they see a gladiator so I want to ease off them for a bit.

I hope they were fair and banned Ackbar Congo lines as well. Man I hate those things.

I think you want to put less on the VSDs because they are more vulnerable to being destroyed. XI7s hard shut down most of their defensive potential out of the redirects. The ISD at least has more shields and higher hull so it can eat the damage a little better, and still cancel crits with contain. It also has an ECM slot to gurantee the use of one token of your choice under accuracy (usually brace, when being attacked by an XI7 carrier). The VSD doesn't have any of this, so it can't really compete with the ISD.

I am angry that we even have to ask/force ourselves to consider the VSD's usefulness. Nobody is raising the same concerns with the assault frigate, which was supposed to be the rebel counterpart with different strengths but is just as effective. Now you'll see A/Fs in many Rebel lists, being abused by one of their commanders, and VSDs are "only" useful as cheap carriers and in the hands of those who know how they want to use them. If the VSD was serviceable this thread would not exist, yet here it is.

Two waves into the game and there's no fix for the VSD's shortcomings revealed out of wave 2. It's going to be the TIE Advanced all over again. Especially if FFG is more interested in Imperial blue-black attack ships like the Demolisher and massed Raiders.

I am also stubborn however and want to find ways to make the VSD work, since it should have been the filling to bring balance to a lot of Imperial lists. What I've been trying recently is to take base VSD-Is with screed and use them as space roadblocks, deploying or moving them in such a way to block off an opponent's advance while the rest of my force (GSDs/ISD) flanks them.

The next time I want to throw upgrades on a VSD-I, I would probably think about Expanded Launchers, Sensor Teams, and Slaved Turrets or XI7s for maximum firepower. Nobody would want to approach it, and probably everyone will be able to dodge it, but if I could get it in such a position where it can pound something I want to make starships vanish with five black dice.

It would be better if it had a support team slot on it. Boosting engineer or using engine techs could help fix it to fit in better with the current meta. I feel that the interdictor will aid in the VSD usage though in the future.

Looks good to me...

Poor ship doesn't even exist in the movies. I hope its in Rogue One. Wouldn't that be awesome?

YEAH IT WOULD!

Greetings from the land down under!

I have decided to forcefully incorporate the VSD into my current builds and I was hoping the sages in this forum could lend me a hand.

We know that the VSD comes in two iterations, the mark I and II variants. The mark I being ostensibly more popular as it is cheaper and it is hard to justify the 12 pts you would have to pay for the mark II/ replacing blacks with blues.

I usually just take enough of a fighter screen to last to turn 3 ( 50-70 pts of fighters). I also enjoy using Vader as my fleet admiral.

Here are two builds I have thought of using:

VSD I

• Title: Dominator
• Officer: Support Officer (50/50 include or Veteran Captain)
• Weapons Team: N/A
• Offensive retrofit: N/A
• Ordnance: APT
• Turbolasers: X17

VSD II

• Title: Dominator
• Officer: Veteran Captain
• Weapons Team: N/A
• Offensive retrofit: N/A
• Ion Cannons: SW 7
• Turbolasers: X17

So any suggestions and comments are completely welcome, I'm also open to just running them bare bones. Also I'm the only Imperial Commander in my circle, the Rebellion is heavily popular in my group.

The only possible Dominator upgrade without going to an ISD 1 (and it's **** close) is taking Gunnery Teams on VSD2, Ion Leading Shots, XI7s, and Gunnery Teams with another ship using Projection Experts to replenish shields.

And frankly at that cost Devastator on an ISD2 is a far smarter investment. Not snark, Dev ISD2 is one of the most powerful ships in the game for the points after the Clonisher Demo build.

I am angry that we even have to ask/force ourselves to consider the VSD's usefulness...

Good Stuff...

I am also stubborn however and want to find ways to make the VSD work, since it should have been the filling to bring balance to a lot of Imperial lists. ....

I am completely onboard with that, I sunk a decent amount of change into 3 VSD kits, not including the ones included in the core sets, so that I and friends could play them.

So it is a heart breaker to find it so difficult to include them when other more points efficient options are available, particularly with the Gozanti filling in the barebones carrier slot, makes it even worse. But fingers crossed for the Interdictor cruiser. I still fly 1-2 at times, just to remind people how hard they really are.

The only possible Dominator upgrade without going to an ISD 1 (and it's **** close) is taking Gunnery Teams on VSD2, Ion Leading Shots, XI7s, and Gunnery Teams with another ship using Projection Experts to replenish shields.

And frankly at that cost Devastator on an ISD2 is a far smarter investment. Not snark, Dev ISD2 is one of the most powerful ships in the game for the points after the Clonisher Demo build.

I appreciate the sentiment with the ISD and I completely agree that it probably is the better use of points, particularly when loaded up with upgrades. But that really just shows up the shortcomings of the VSD even more so. It's hurting for a support team or a defensive retrofit to give it a little bit more oomph at its point range.

I'm a bit iffy on gunnery teams on anything but an ISD at that. I rarely get the circumstance when I'm able to shoot 2 targets at optimum range for a VSD, poor mobility and whatnot, rather I'd take the double arc shot instead on one target.

VSD2 with gunnery teams seems to work. There are a lot of variables of course, but for someone to attack you they are highly likely to end up in medium range. Especially Imp vs Imp, speed 2 or not, you are going to get in range.

VSD1 with Dominator is my go to as my flank anchor, because it provides really good side arc defence as well.

I like a VSD-I w/Corruptor and Boosted Comms as a carrier. It's fun and with the Gozanti adding Bomber Command damned effective. Slower than sin and twice as sluggish, but fun to fly. And with the Interdictor at SPD2 as well you really don't have to fear being left behind.

This is a build I've been thinking of just to have an excuse to fly one.

ISD II: Motti, Gunnery Team, ECM, Leading Shots, X17, Relentless

Glad I: Intel Officer, OE, ACM, Demo

VSD II: Captain Needa, TRC, Gunnery Team, SW-7, Dominator

Tie x3

397 total

Figure roll in low and slow using the VSD as a pocket ISD to cover flanks, the Glad to create chaos and the ISD to pave the way. With Motti everything has a little more staying power. Can't wait to try it out since most of my meta seems to be Rieekan swarms and Ackbars

Hmmm so people are finding out what I have attested to all along. Interesting. I will go with what was said by Dras I believe a few pages back (or on another thread). It all boils down to attitude.

It would be better if it had a support team slot on it. Boosting engineer or using engine techs could help fix it to fit in better with the current meta. I feel that the interdictor will aid in the VSD usage though in the future.

I think the fundamental problem there is that while a Support Team slot on a VSD would be perfectly fine, the inevitable question would become "well, why not then also on an ISD?" The only real answer to that is "because it would kind of break the game to let ISDs use Engine Techs to go speed 4."

It also comes down to role. VSDs are effectively heavy infantry. They don't really go very fast and they're not very mobile but they control territory well and they're extremely dangerous to confront head-on. Similarly to heavy infantry, they are vulnerable to flanking by faster shock units and largely rely on other elements to handle skirmishers. An ISD would effectively be heavy cavalry in this example - its improved speed and durability allow it to behave more aggressively but it can still get into trouble if thrown into the teeth of an organized defensive line. A lot of people seem to be upset that VSDs are not also heavy (or at least medium) cavalry, like they want them to be. I've had success running VSDs in the manner I've described earlier in this thread but I don't see the harm in FFG producing some kind of upgrade that allows VSDs to be used a bit more aggressively for people who want some kind of pocket battleship that can understudy to the ISD.

Coming back around to the quoted text, though, I would be in favor of some kind of limited availability of Support Crew so the VSD could equip something like Engine Techs. I'd generally prefer something like...

Expanded Crew Quarters

Offensive Retrofit

X points

"Modification. You may equip a single Support Team or Weapon Team upgrade that costs 6 or less points to this ship at normal cost without using up an upgrade slot."

VSDs can take those Nav Teams they wanted (my Tarkin-led VSDs have crazy hunger for Nav Teams, which no other ship in the game cares about at all), Command MC80s can get themselves some Flight Controllers, you can consider adding some Sensor Teams to your Gunnery Teams if you like, etc., but at no point can an ISD take Engine Techs nor an MC80 take Gunnery Teams. Would make everyone happy I would think.

Hmmm so people are finding out what I have attested to all along. Interesting. I will go with what was said by Dras I believe a few pages back (or on another thread). It all boils down to attitude.

...you have to realize that this comes across as very arrogant, right?

Slightly arrogant. I like being right and I dislike people making assessments without even really trying out everything. I have argued so much over just Facebook on the VSD but many from the UK group seem to think that the VSD is a write off. Bah

Hi Blail,

Aye no squadrons, only way to deal with it as built is kill stuff faster than it can kill you! lol it was good fun.

Fleet was :

Raider I : Darth Vader (80pts)

Raider I Ordnance Experts : APT (53pts)

VSD : Slaved Turrets (79pts)

VSD : Slaved Turrets (79pts)

Gladiator I : Intel Officer : Engine Techs : Ordnance Experts : ACM : Demolisher (92pts)

Comes in a 383pts. So some room to play around, I took OE on 2 ships even with Vader, allowed some aggressive re-rolling, but not 100% essential, though I am unsure what else you could run instead.

What about Intel officers on them vsd's. Seems like would be good...

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 390/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

[ flagship ] Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Darth Vader ( 36 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

Is that good?

Replace expanded launchers on demolisher for APTs and add APT or ACM on the raider?

I'm still planning my Needa/TRC/Warlord Domination. So act surprised when it happens please.

Slightly arrogant. I like being right and I dislike people making assessments without even really trying out everything. I have argued so much over just Facebook on the VSD but many from the UK group seem to think that the VSD is a write off. Bah

...

I did have a nice post typed out for you, but I really shouldn't get into another argument around here, especially with you, and over such a trivial thing. You keep patting yourself on the head, and I will leave you to it.

Hi Blail,

Aye no squadrons, only way to deal with it as built is kill stuff faster than it can kill you! lol it was good fun.

Fleet was :

Raider I : Darth Vader (80pts)

Raider I Ordnance Experts : APT (53pts)

VSD : Slaved Turrets (79pts)

VSD : Slaved Turrets (79pts)

Gladiator I : Intel Officer : Engine Techs : Ordnance Experts : ACM : Demolisher (92pts)

Comes in a 383pts. So some room to play around, I took OE on 2 ships even with Vader, allowed some aggressive re-rolling, but not 100% essential, though I am unsure what else you could run instead.

What about Intel officers on them vsd's. Seems like would be good...

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 390/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

[ flagship ] Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Darth Vader ( 36 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

Is that good?

Adding Intel Officers to the VSD's, sure could make things real interesting, and defo worth a try out. I'd probably drop the Exp Launchers from the GSD (+ACM) and give the other Raider APT, just to keep your fleet multi pronged in the threat department.

Hi Blail,

Aye no squadrons, only way to deal with it as built is kill stuff faster than it can kill you! lol it was good fun.

Fleet was :

Raider I : Darth Vader (80pts)

Raider I Ordnance Experts : APT (53pts)

VSD : Slaved Turrets (79pts)

VSD : Slaved Turrets (79pts)

Gladiator I : Intel Officer : Engine Techs : Ordnance Experts : ACM : Demolisher (92pts)

Comes in a 383pts. So some room to play around, I took OE on 2 ships even with Vader, allowed some aggressive re-rolling, but not 100% essential, though I am unsure what else you could run instead.

What about Intel officers on them vsd's. Seems like would be good...

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 390/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

[ flagship ] Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Darth Vader ( 36 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

Is that good?

Adding Intel Officers to the VSD's, sure could make things real interesting, and defo worth a try out. I'd probably drop the Exp Launchers from the GSD (+ACM) and give the other Raider APT, just to keep your fleet multi pronged in the threat department.

I like the idea, my thinking was crits are tough to guarantee on side arc unless you take ord as well for a double reroll... in which case you are spending 4+5 for ord/apt or 4+7 for acm, and it doesn't help the front arc which with two rerolls is still only 10 percent to fail to get crit, in which case maybe just go get expanded launchers instead... which now makes the strongest arc have the possibility of accuracies, with a reroll to try and fetch them... and I think it can make for a stronger second player demo hitting harder when you only get that one shot at end of round... but I could definitely see going ord/apt instead to shave points to grab first because triple tap demo is just so good

I'm still planning my Needa/TRC/Warlord Domination. So act surprised when it happens please.

I like Needa/TRC and I like Warlord but I'd not normally run Warlord without H9s. Still, could finally be a use for those Sensor Teams. Needa/TRC/Warlord/Sensors for 4 guaranteed damage?

Actually, now you've got me thinking about it I'd like to put that onto the table some time.

I reckon warlord with intel officer, xi7s and Vader. Just push the damage up and dare him to brace.

I've been going undefeated locally lately with this:

VSD-I

+Motti

VSD-I

Raider-I

+Ordnance Experts

Raider-I

+Ordnance Experts

Rhymer

Jumpmaster 5000

TIE Advanced

5 Firesprays

396 points

Contested Outpost

Superior Positions

Precision Strike

It's a mean little piece of work. The VSDs themselves (relevant to this thread) provide a solid chunk of hull but also anchor the flank towards the edges (where it's difficult to flank them) and have claimed a number of ships. There's obvious synergy with the Firesprays insomuch as VSDs don't always get multiple turns to pour their best fire into targets, but the Firesprays are happy to either weaken shields prior to the VSD wallop or chase after ships weakened by getting hit by a VSD and then running off. Raiders primarily act as flak support.

I'm not as confident in a VSD-only Rhymerball list insomuch as you are usually light on activations(3, usually), very unmaneuverable as a whole, and I find the Raider flak helps considerably at handling enemy squadrons trying to mess with the Rhymerball.

Slightly arrogant. I like being right and I dislike people making assessments without even really trying out everything. I have argued so much over just Facebook on the VSD but many from the UK group seem to think that the VSD is a write off. Bah

Must be Meta-Dopes... slaves really, and stupid in general.

Happy most of us ain't like dats!