Most games I play end up with at least one unintentional ram, and often ends up with a "ram pile" of three or more ships as the first two ships get in the way of others. I wish there was a better way to resolve the effects of these , but the rules are the best way I've heard of.

Like any game rules in Armada can be twisted outside of their intended use and ramming is twisted this way more than most. The CR-90 + Engine techs ramming machine is the biggest example of this I've heard of. I know another player posted a thread about setting up one of his small ships to be rammed by one of his large ships as a way to keep the big ship on the table.

Both of these leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I haven't heard of any ideas that couldn't be twisted in there own way. Besides the multi-ship pileups, leading to several ships starting right on top of each other the following turn, are kind of fun

OK, two things, first a question how many have ramming happen all the time? In my area it does not happen much, we have one player who does about 90% of the rams, and most of the time it was not his plan. Second I think that the Navigate command is the least useful one of all of them (unless you have no squadrons), at least for my play style.

The real issue with the ramming mechanics is that it makes navigate far more powerful than all other commands in most circumstances. Is this a good thing? Who knows.

Repair a hull, or dodge a ram?

Get an extra attack dice, or get a double arc?

Activate Squads, or ... nah that one is still good.

All he commands are good but they have their own place I think. Navigate commands SHOULD be the most powerful becuase Navigating is what many people consider the most important aspect of the game there is. It is a skill that needs to be mastered and refined constantly and thus the most important aspect of the game should be backed by the most powerful command.

Nah, it would be better if all 4 commands had great utility. Me, I'm taking Navigate most of the time.

Ramming or collisions if you prefer, happen most in fights with forward arc ships in games I've seen.

I have had most rams with my Nebs. Now perhaps that is just that I'm not great with them, though I have to say I have used them to good effect.

They are a weird ship to fly. All the attack and defence on the front compels pointing the front at the threat, thus closure, and potential ramming.

And you can't be too clever because of the teeeeeny tiny front arc. That means they want to stay at range but they can't.. because they want to point front on at the enemy!

I don't mind the glancing blow of 1 hit each so much, at least the Neb can then escape.

When there is an ISD and a Liberty going at each other though it will just be a wrestle to the death.

In any case it's of course entirely up to you what you choose to play isn't it.

For me I dislike the ramming rules to the point I don't really want to play with them (and sadly it puts me off tournaments too) but to each their own

Do they? I have rammed with MC80's Assault Frigate, MC30's more often I think than any other ships.

Nebulon-B's are one of my favorite ships which I think will come into even greater effect in wave 4. Now however, I usually only have navigate commands for them. Being able to speed up from 1-3 and get that extra click is so helpful! I think people are more worried about that side arc than they need to be. Sure it is weak shield wise but just learn to limit your engagement and how to angle your front arc to the opponent's yellow dot.

My recommendation, play 6 games with you only using the Navigate command. Learn it, love, live it.

I tend to ram most with Motti VSDs & ISDs, but have seen the CR90 & Raider ram used to great effect in turn 6 to take out that wounded beast that otherwise would just barely survive. My favorite tactic for beating Demolisher in wave 1 was just to run it over with a Vic. firing all the way in. Eat that Mr. 5 hull point Demo! Screed can't save you now!...

Good times!

We tried, we really did. We tried all kinds of stuff but the bottom line(s) were:

- Altering the way ships move due to ramming really makes a train wreck of the game - anything that alters the positions of ships basically has a huge knock-on effect to the rest of the game.

- Removing ramming damage substantially increases the survivability of smaller ships

- Either of these effectively busts the points system

So we now play it vanilla. Still hate the ramming system but it is what it is.

Engine techs + corellian ramming = rage, and insertion of said corvette should be the penalty for such a strategy.

In an aside, I'd love to see an ordnance upgrade for "fire ship".

"Modification: When you ram an opponent's ship, you may discard this card to roll a number of black dice equal to half your total hull points. Deal one face-down damage card for each hit or crit. Your ship is then destroyed."

(In response to your question, no. Flotillas work differently because they're so small, but to change everything else would overcomplicate the game.

Ramming is what it is; use it to your advantage, and try to keep yourself out of the way so it can't be used against you.)

That would be broken as heck. Give a CR-90 that and engine techs, and they become so overpowered it's insane. They'd activate, shoot twice, ram, ram again, (Already dealing 2 damage), roll 4 black dice, deal probably 4-6 more damage (possibly 8 more).... here's a ship that can now potentially take out a FULL HEALTH AFmkII, Victory, or even an Interdictor from far away in a single turn before they can react.

In an aside, I'd love to see an ordnance upgrade for "fire ship".

"Modification: When you ram an opponent's ship, you may discard this card to roll a number of black dice equal to half your total hull points. Deal one face-down damage card for each hit or crit. Your ship is then destroyed."

(In response to your question, no. Flotillas work differently because they're so small, but to change everything else would overcomplicate the game.

Ramming is what it is; use it to your advantage, and try to keep yourself out of the way so it can't be used against you.)

That would be broken as heck. Give a CR-90 that and engine techs, and they become so overpowered it's insane. They'd activate, shoot twice, ram, ram again, (Already dealing 2 damage), roll 4 black dice, deal probably 4-6 more damage (possibly 8 more).... here's a ship that can now potentially take out a FULL HEALTH AFmkII, Victory, or even an Interdictor from far away in a single turn before they can react.

one: "I'd love to see an ordnance upgrade for "fire ship""

two: "dice equal to half your total hull points"

and im a force ghost

And actually Engine Techs wouldn't help that build, since you do damage when you overlap, you'd be destroyed before you could take Engine Techs.

You'd pretty much need to make that kind of an upgrade not compatible with Rieekan.

I think it would be fine if you change it to "after overlapping another ship, instead of dealing one face down damage card to each ship, roll black dice equal to your remaining hull points. Deal damage to both ships equal to the total number of hits and crits to the closest hull zone."

Makes it a danger to everyone, and makes it not play well with engine techs or Rieekan.

But "remaining hull points" isn't a measure in Armada for ships. Only for Squadrons...

Its Damage cards.

Hull Points is a fixed number for a ship. It never increases or decreases... So what would happen is this:

Plough my MC30 into one enemy ship on my normal move... let's say I have 1 damage card already....

I have 4 Hull Points, so I'm rolling four black dice... And they all roll Hit/Crits... I deal 8 damage to the Enemy, and 8 Damage to myself... lets say I have no shields, and that damage kills the enemy... I now have 9 damage cards, but I have Rieekan and Engine Techs... So I activate Engine Techs, Plough into another Enemy who was unfortunately nearby, because I swing my ass out hard on that turn...

I have 9 Damage cards, but I still have 4 hull points... So I roll 4 black dice against him... They all take hit/crits again... Oh, look at that, I now have 17 Damage Cards... But I have Rieekan. I'm still there until the end of the round............

Nope, still just fine as a mechanic. Take more navs and drive better.

It's pretty hard to find two ships stuck in a truly inescapable nose-to-nose ramming scenario that neither player wants to be in; if you and an opponent do, you need to take a step back and figure out what you did to get yourselves there and how to either fix it or take advantage of it in the future. Because in this case, the mechanic truly is just punishing poor flying, much like flying off the table does.

Yes because we all know that each of the four edges of the table is lined with an invisible Death(star) laser ray, that is permanently switched on like an electric fence, and will incinerate any ship or squadron, that would dare to leave the thunderdome cage of death.

I'm not sure what your point is. This is a game, and as such requires certain concessions to reality. "Stay in the play area" is one.

Even so, it's not such a terribly unrealistic mechanic. If you have to, tell yourself that you're part of a larger fleet action and have been constrained by your commander to limit your flight envelope to certain parameters as an organizational tool, or because there is a civilian traffic lane nearby, or a subspace rift, or <insert excuse here>. This is consistent with real world military action, in which aircraft are very commonly restricted to operate only within a well-defined airspace or face potentially significant consequences. Maybe your ships aren't destroyed by leaving your AoR, but instead removed from your command for failing to follow orders.

I was being overly sarcastic, for the fun of it

As the ISD Bonesaw said to the Corvette Spidyman, "You are in the cage now and the next five turns you're mine!!!"

The Corvette Spidyman then ran circles around the ISD, TRC'ing it to death at long range.

True story

In an aside, I'd love to see an ordnance upgrade for "fire ship".

"Modification: When you ram an opponent's ship, you may discard this card to roll a number of black dice equal to half your total hull points. Deal one face-down damage card for each hit or crit. Your ship is then destroyed."

(In response to your question, no. Flotillas work differently because they're so small, but to change everything else would overcomplicate the game.

Ramming is what it is; use it to your advantage, and try to keep yourself out of the way so it can't be used against you.)

That would be broken as heck. Give a CR-90 that and engine techs, and they become so overpowered it's insane. They'd activate, shoot twice, ram, ram again, (Already dealing 2 damage), roll 4 black dice, deal probably 4-6 more damage (possibly 8 more).... here's a ship that can now potentially take out a FULL HEALTH AFmkII, Victory, or even an Interdictor from far away in a single turn before they can react.

But "remaining hull points" isn't a measure in Armada for ships. Only for Squadrons...

Its Damage cards.

Hull Points is a fixed number for a ship. It never increases or decreases... So what would happen is this:

Plough my MC30 into one enemy ship on my normal move... let's say I have 1 damage card already....

I have 4 Hull Points, so I'm rolling four black dice... And they all roll Hit/Crits... I deal 8 damage to the Enemy, and 8 Damage to myself... lets say I have no shields, and that damage kills the enemy... I now have 9 damage cards, but I have Rieekan and Engine Techs... So I activate Engine Techs, Plough into another Enemy who was unfortunately nearby, because I swing my ass out hard on that turn...

I have 9 Damage cards, but I still have 4 hull points... So I roll 4 black dice against him... They all take hit/crits again... Oh, look at that, I now have 17 Damage Cards... But I have Rieekan. I'm still there until the end of the round............

I am not saying that it would not be broken, but I do not think that it would be as bad as you are making it out. First it is only half your total hull in the example given, second after you do it you are destroyed. Now it may just be me, but I am guessing they way it would be written would have it so that you can not Riken that destruction. I would also guess if they are making it into a fire ship that it would not be able to attack, but this part is just a guess on my part.

I am judging as Written, not as Intended. As rules must be scrutinized.

You would have to write a mechanic for it not to be Rieeken'd, it couldn't "just" be destroyed.

I will say - yes, Half the Hull, instead of All of the Hull... I missed that, and will stand corrected on that point...

Two Dice to Four Damage, twice. If its the end of a battle, that's still quite powerful, considering it cannot be Braced or Redirected, and occurs after you shoot...

Ramming is one of those things. It clearly bothers people, which is why we have this thread every month or two.

But FFG backed themselves into a corner when they decided to use their movement tool instead of just using a **** tape measure like they should have done in the first place.

I think it is because X-wing doesn't have ramming (with the exception of the Epic formats) So people expect the same verticality mechanics in Armada that X-wing has. However since almost all starship game has ramming in it (Firestorm, BFG, HAL0 Reach) I think it is fine.

Now what really gets me is the off the edge of the mat. Rule I think that it should be either a disengage (make a jump for hyperspace and count for half points) mechanic or a return mechanic instead.

I think the bottom line is still that while the rules for collisions are not perfect, they're the best balance I've seen yet. Yes a player can use ramming as an attack, but it's not overly unbalanced as it is. The most effective part I've seen is when the colliding ships can't move you are able to get perfect shots with other ships because of it.

I also thought about alternative rules for collitions ... but i came to to the conclusion that rules other then that we already have would make the game worse.

The short answer is: no.

I watched a WW2 dogfighting minis game that had rules to simulate a 3D space (planes at different altitude levels) looked interesting, but would add a level of complexity this game doesn't need.

Additionally, the tactical choices offered by collisions adds a lot to the game - allowing ships to just go willy-nilly all over the place without fear of being blocked would detract from the game, not add to it.

How about ship a and b can only take ramming dmg once per turn from ramming each other.

So ship a goes and rams ship b, they both take a dmg card. Ship A then fire engine tech but can move, neither ship a or b recieve dmg. Ship b goes but cant move cause blocked by A neither take dmg.

However both ship A or B may take dmg if rammed by a 3rd ship.

Still would like to see on the second turn that would result in a ram. The ship is move long the tool till no ramm would happen.