Ramming in space is silly- these are spaceships, not triremes.

I seem to recall a specific instance of an ISD collision in the movies.

If you don't like it, think of it as boarding actions or something then.

Ah, the ultimate example of getting too focused on your target that you don't notice anything else: "Chase the Millennium Falcon, we can catch it!... Whoops, it has decided to remember space is 3d and gone down... Oh, ****, where did that other mile long spaceship suddenly come from!?!"

Really, what were the crew doing on those ships? What was the plan? Why did they seem to think that the fact that the Millennium Falcon was between them meant that the fact they were going straight for each other didn't matter?"

In the Empire Strikes Back the ISD's don't actually collide.

Star Wars is a cinematic fantasy. How cinematic would it be for a CR90 and an ISD to be going towards each other and then just sit in the same spot in space just bouncing off each other?

Better yet how would it look on the screen if a MC80 and a ISD to just sit there bouncing off each other like a couple of Goodyear blimps?

The worst thing I don't like about the ramming rules is that I actually use them as a viable tactic to finish off a ship. It's just too tempting and addictive ☹️

I've said before that I don't like the ramming rules but I've also said I'm willing to accept them because they are better than the alternative but I would prefer the ships to scrape down each other's side.

Ramming in space is silly- these are spaceships, not triremes.

I seem to recall a specific instance of an ISD collision in the movies.

If you don't like it, think of it as boarding actions or something then.

Ah, the ultimate example of getting too focused on your target that you don't notice anything else: "Chase the Millennium Falcon, we can catch it!... Whoops, it has decided to remember space is 3d and gone down... Oh, ****, where did that other mile long spaceship suddenly come from!?!"

Really, what were the crew doing on those ships? What was the plan? Why did they seem to think that the fact that the Millennium Falcon was between them meant that the fact they were going straight for each other didn't matter?"

In the Empire Strikes Back the ISD's don't actually collide.

That wasn't my point. Even if they don't (which I would argue is actually debatable. We know there isn't a catastrophic collision, and it looks like they probably will just stop in time, but I don't think we see anything that categorically rules out a minor collision), what they did made no sense. They risked a collision for no purpose. They don't react to the fact they are heading towards each other until the Falcon dives between them... what were they doing until that point? What was their plan? Their intersecting trajectories would have been obvious for... probably minutes, and it wasn't likely that the Star Destroyers themselves would be able to do anything, relying more on their fighter cover. Were the navigators playing chicken with each other?

Now, I will admit Star Wars is cinematic. The real reason it happens is because it looks cool as you get to have Star Destroyers chasing the Falcon, and you get to have the heroes appear to outwit the blundering bad guys in some minor way. I'm fine with that, just rationally very little of what happens on screen in that shot makes any sense.

Even though Space is 3D, there is still a Solar/Galactic Plane that they obviously deal with most of the time... Might have just been sloppy, after all.

I'll start by saying there is probably already a thread on this with lots of great dialogue, so I apologize to the OP for starting anew. However, I think the new flotilla mechanics warrant a new thread.

Anybody else experiencing some severe distress over the concept of ramming in this game? Still. While certainly not the only challenging mechanic, it is easily one the most annoying (looking at you, Demo double tappers). FFG is setting a precedent of recognizing the flaw in this game mechanic by changing the rule for flotillas (or accounting for it with an add-on rule, more precisely).

I think it's crazy that an ISD would be stopped in its tracks by a corvette, and suffer the same damage, and I know I'm not the only one. What if there was a mechanic for large ships to brush aside small ships in the same manner as squadrons, like the defender places them with bases touching side to side. Certainly not perfect, but maybe more realistic (or maybe I'm crazy).

Some other ideas I've heard in my local spot is basing damage on ship size and speed. For instance, a ship moving at speed 4 ought to do more damage than a ship at speed 1(and could shields handle bumps at the lower speeds, thus reducing the impact of the engine tech double tap). The disparity in size could also affect whether or not some of that would be critical damage. Or vice versa.

Other things to consider in this thread is how that would affect game balance. The rebels typically run smaller, faster ships, while imps love their ISDs. Would any change affect the likelihood of ramming for each faction, how would strategies change? Would the dreaded Demo double tap finish still be viable.

I don't want to exhaust all or too many topics of discussion in one post, so I'll leave it there, though I've already laid out a ton.

But everyone knows Corvettes are highly flammable!

I'm just more impressed that someone could be suffering "severe distress" over a portion of a game.

Ramming in space is silly- these are spaceships, not triremes.

I seem to recall a specific instance of an ISD collision in the movies.

If you don't like it, think of it as boarding actions or something then.

Ah, the ultimate example of getting too focused on your target that you don't notice anything else: "Chase the Millennium Falcon, we can catch it!... Whoops, it has decided to remember space is 3d and gone down... Oh, ****, where did that other mile long spaceship suddenly come from!?!"

Really, what were the crew doing on those ships? What was the plan? Why did they seem to think that the fact that the Millennium Falcon was between them meant that the fact they were going straight for each other didn't matter?"

In the Empire Strikes Back the ISD's don't actually collide.

Star Wars is a cinematic fantasy. How cinematic would it be for a CR90 and an ISD to be going towards each other and then just sit in the same spot in space just bouncing off each other?

Better yet how would it look on the screen if a MC80 and a ISD to just sit there bouncing off each other like a couple of Goodyear blimps?

The worst thing I don't like about the ramming rules is that I actually use them as a viable tactic to finish off a ship. It's just too tempting and addictive ☹️

I've said before that I don't like the ramming rules but I've also said I'm willing to accept them because they are better than the alternative but I would prefer the ships to scrape down each other's side.

Vader: The commander of the ship that captures the Millennium Falcon wins not being choked to death. Have a nice day.

Executive Officer: Looks like the Avenger is already chasing it. Sucks to be you.

Captain: EMERGENCY POWER TO ENGINES AND INTERCEPT THAT FREIGHTER!

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

I have, but this is not a question of is it to powerful, or not. It is a question of why do you think that it should not be able to use its special rule if it rams. There are lots of special rules out there that can be very powerful is used the right way. Just last week we had a guy who had Reiken, the ship was shot and "destroyed" but as it did not go away, the guy then ran into it and was destroyed himself. Then when it was the rebels turn you would have no issue (except the double ram part) with the dead ship shooting two ships and then ramming (maybe double) to kill one, or two more after he is "dead"?

Just for the record, I do mostly play Empire. I have faced the Demolisher, but find it to be easy to kill, and not worth its points. I almost never take any GSD and if I do it is only the II for the extra anti-fighter.

Not a fan of the collission rules as the resulting immobilty is frustrating: I just had game with a friend where our VSD and MC-80 unintentionally blocked each other and both were unable to move for the rest of the game as a result. My friend's MC-80s turbolaser's did 'undo' the blockage eventually but we both agreed the immobility situation took from our enjoyment of the game.

However, I do find it easier to contenance the damage aspect when I think of it as damage from extremely close-range firing (as also suggested by AllWingsStandingBy and Versch), as opposed to actual ramming.

The other side of it is - Now that you've had that situation come up, and that you've experienced it, and decide you do not like it, you are going to be much less likely to let that situation happen again in the future.

Or you can take it a step further: now that you've seen how much it can frustrate the other guy's big ship to be blocked, how can you engineer situations in which it is advantageous for you to block him, while minimizing the impact to your own plans?

I still feel like an MC80 and a VIC moving towards each other at full speed is still a Slow-Motion "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" ramming situation...

Just view ramming, as two ships shooting at each other at point blank range, where neither side can't miss each other, and where it's very easy for both sides to pick and concentrate fire on a weakspot that causes structual damage.

Not a fan of the collission rules as the resulting immobilty is frustrating: I just had game with a friend where our VSD and MC-80 unintentionally blocked each other and both were unable to move for the rest of the game as a result. My friend's MC-80s turbolaser's did 'undo' the blockage eventually but we both agreed the immobility situation took from our enjoyment of the game.

However, I do find it easier to contenance the damage aspect when I think of it as damage from extremely close-range firing (as also suggested by AllWingsStandingBy and Versch), as opposed to actual ramming.

This. I think this is the key issue that ffg needs to fix. Otherwise future low speed ships will also suffer from this issue.

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

I have, but this is not a question of is it to powerful, or not. It is a question of why do you think that it should not be able to use its special rule if it rams. There are lots of special rules out there that can be very powerful is used the right way. Just last week we had a guy who had Reiken, the ship was shot and "destroyed" but as it did not go away, the guy then ran into it and was destroyed himself. Then when it was the rebels turn you would have no issue (except the double ram part) with the dead ship shooting two ships and then ramming (maybe double) to kill one, or two more after he is "dead"?

Just for the record, I do mostly play Empire. I have faced the Demolisher, but find it to be easy to kill, and not worth its points. I almost never take any GSD and if I do it is only the II for the extra anti-fighter.

I would still like to know why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming?

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

I have, but this is not a question of is it to powerful, or not. It is a question of why do you think that it should not be able to use its special rule if it rams. There are lots of special rules out there that can be very powerful is used the right way. Just last week we had a guy who had Reiken, the ship was shot and "destroyed" but as it did not go away, the guy then ran into it and was destroyed himself. Then when it was the rebels turn you would have no issue (except the double ram part) with the dead ship shooting two ships and then ramming (maybe double) to kill one, or two more after he is "dead"?

Just for the record, I do mostly play Empire. I have faced the Demolisher, but find it to be easy to kill, and not worth its points. I almost never take any GSD and if I do it is only the II for the extra anti-fighter.

I would still like to know why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming?

Racing is not the issue for me. It is the fact that it can stay out of Red range, rush in at speed 4, shoot the same turn, and then repeat itself.

It is the most used title in the game currently. No other title has a "You need to take me and my ship" as Demolisher.

Wave 3 has a counter and we may see it in the next Vassal Tournament (I will be trying my counter out), but we shall see.

Just view ramming, as two ships shooting at each other at point blank range, where neither side can't miss each other, and where it's very easy for both sides to pick and concentrate fire on a weakspot that causes structual damage.

But you still take damage from ramming friendly ships?

Just view ramming, as two ships shooting at each other at point blank range, where neither side can't miss each other, and where it's very easy for both sides to pick and concentrate fire on a weakspot that causes structual damage.

But you still take damage from ramming friendly ships?

This was the moment that both the Empire and Rebellion simultaneously realized that using hundreds of thousands of Jar Jar Binks clones as gunners was a bad idea. Meesa gotta bad feelin abouts 'dis.

realized that using hundreds of thousands of Jar Jar Binks clones as gunners was a bad idea.

Definitely a bad idea.

They're much better as Ammunition.

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

I have, but this is not a question of is it to powerful, or not. It is a question of why do you think that it should not be able to use its special rule if it rams. There are lots of special rules out there that can be very powerful is used the right way. Just last week we had a guy who had Reiken, the ship was shot and "destroyed" but as it did not go away, the guy then ran into it and was destroyed himself. Then when it was the rebels turn you would have no issue (except the double ram part) with the dead ship shooting two ships and then ramming (maybe double) to kill one, or two more after he is "dead"?

Just for the record, I do mostly play Empire. I have faced the Demolisher, but find it to be easy to kill, and not worth its points. I almost never take any GSD and if I do it is only the II for the extra anti-fighter.

I would still like to know why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming?

Racing is not the issue for me. It is the fact that it can stay out of Red range, rush in at speed 4, shoot the same turn, and then repeat itself.

It is the most used title in the game currently. No other title has a "You need to take me and my ship" as Demolisher.

Wave 3 has a counter and we may see it in the next Vassal Tournament (I will be trying my counter out), but we shall see.

I have no idea where racing come from, or what you mean by it, how it affects the discussion about ramming or the Demolisher being the only unit to have it special ability changed? Last time I checked the GSD can not move speed four so not sure where that comes from as well. Now I do have to admit that it is possible I am just forgetting as I do not have my stuff here with me, and the GSD is the least used of all Empire ships in my area. So I have to disagree that it is the "You need to take me and my ship", at least in my area, the most likely ship I have seen for that would be on the Rebel side, the Gallent Haven. If they have a guppy they have a Gallent Haven, the only time it is not in their fleet is if there is not a guppy.

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

I have, but this is not a question of is it to powerful, or not. It is a question of why do you think that it should not be able to use its special rule if it rams. There are lots of special rules out there that can be very powerful is used the right way. Just last week we had a guy who had Reiken, the ship was shot and "destroyed" but as it did not go away, the guy then ran into it and was destroyed himself. Then when it was the rebels turn you would have no issue (except the double ram part) with the dead ship shooting two ships and then ramming (maybe double) to kill one, or two more after he is "dead"?

Just for the record, I do mostly play Empire. I have faced the Demolisher, but find it to be easy to kill, and not worth its points. I almost never take any GSD and if I do it is only the II for the extra anti-fighter.

I would still like to know why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming?

Racing is not the issue for me. It is the fact that it can stay out of Red range, rush in at speed 4, shoot the same turn, and then repeat itself.

It is the most used title in the game currently. No other title has a "You need to take me and my ship" as Demolisher.

Wave 3 has a counter and we may see it in the next Vassal Tournament (I will be trying my counter out), but we shall see.

I have no idea where racing come from, or what you mean by it, how it affects the discussion about ramming or the Demolisher being the only unit to have it special ability changed? Last time I checked the GSD can not move speed four so not sure where that comes from as well. Now I do have to admit that it is possible I am just forgetting as I do not have my stuff here with me, and the GSD is the least used of all Empire ships in my area. So I have to disagree that it is the "You need to take me and my ship", at least in my area, the most likely ship I have seen for that would be on the Rebel side, the Gallent Haven. If they have a guppy they have a Gallent Haven, the only time it is not in their fleet is if there is not a guppy.

I think I can count the number of times I have seen Gallant Haven played in my area on two fingers.

The only change I would make is that a collision should end the activation of a ship, so that a ship which collided cannot use engine techs (to eliminate the possibility of double rams) or take any action such as shooting (looking at you, Demolisher).

OK, I can see the stopping the movement, but how would that stop the shooting? Also why make a special rule (Shooting part at least) that only affects one unit?

Oh my sweet summer child. Clearly you've never played against a Demolisher.

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Demolisher

I have, but this is not a question of is it to powerful, or not. It is a question of why do you think that it should not be able to use its special rule if it rams. There are lots of special rules out there that can be very powerful is used the right way. Just last week we had a guy who had Reiken, the ship was shot and "destroyed" but as it did not go away, the guy then ran into it and was destroyed himself. Then when it was the rebels turn you would have no issue (except the double ram part) with the dead ship shooting two ships and then ramming (maybe double) to kill one, or two more after he is "dead"?

Just for the record, I do mostly play Empire. I have faced the Demolisher, but find it to be easy to kill, and not worth its points. I almost never take any GSD and if I do it is only the II for the extra anti-fighter.

I would still like to know why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming?

Racing is not the issue for me. It is the fact that it can stay out of Red range, rush in at speed 4, shoot the same turn, and then repeat itself.

It is the most used title in the game currently. No other title has a "You need to take me and my ship" as Demolisher.

Wave 3 has a counter and we may see it in the next Vassal Tournament (I will be trying my counter out), but we shall see.

I have no idea where racing come from, or what you mean by it, how it affects the discussion about ramming or the Demolisher being the only unit to have it special ability changed? Last time I checked the GSD can not move speed four so not sure where that comes from as well. Now I do have to admit that it is possible I am just forgetting as I do not have my stuff here with me, and the GSD is the least used of all Empire ships in my area. So I have to disagree that it is the "You need to take me and my ship", at least in my area, the most likely ship I have seen for that would be on the Rebel side, the Gallent Haven. If they have a guppy they have a Gallent Haven, the only time it is not in their fleet is if there is not a guppy.

I think I can count the number of times I have seen Gallant Haven played in my area on two fingers.

I will ask again, why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming? I noticed after I asked this, no one is talking about this any more, but they also will not say why they think that only one unit should have its special ability negated on ramming.

I will ask again, why people think that only the Demolisher should not be able to use its special ability after ramming? I noticed after I asked this, no one is talking about this any more, but they also will not say why they think that only one unit should have its special ability negated on ramming.

It's not the ram and attack that gets me. I don't care about that. I am not sure why people care, it would happen either way.

This is not X-Wing people. Stop trying to force X-Wing on Armada

I find ramming to be by far the worst aspect of the game. Not because ramming is possible but because it's often unavoidable and worse, the situation can persist for a number of turns.

It (IMHO) reduces the otherwise excellent game to blocking maneuvers and ramming avoidance. I see it's going to get much worse with the forward arc Liberty.

Soo.. whilst I don't expect any official change to the rules, I will be playing with an alternative and I would like to ask for feedback on what you think will work best.

1) Remove ramming all together, just displace the smaller ship by the minimum necessary and let the smaller ship choose if there is a choice

2) Allow ramming as written but also displace the smaller ship as above

3) #2 and allow a ship to spend an evade defence token to avoid ramming damage

4) Something else entirely