We have a (very late) Store Champ coming up...

After much indecision I've landed on a try-for-1st Screed-led fleet*, based around ISD-II, GSD-I Demo and 2x Raider-I.

(*because the ISD is too cool not to use, Demo is too good not to be used, 2 raiders are the only way I can get 4 activations, Screed because he rules black crit effects, and 1st player w/Demo is too good to pass over)

That much has been settled, but I'm looking for some input regarding the final tweaks - and objectives.

Few people around here bid very heavily, so any bid of 10+ points should more or less guarantee 1st player (I could get surprised of course). Even 7 pts (like the first draft) should be enough in like 2 out of 3 matches on average. I'd like to go first, but I can manage with 2nd player as well, so a high bid isn't essential to me.

I've come up with 3 variations:

1. This one has Aggressors. Slow, but tough and Rogue. I've tried them out, and were it not for the existence of Intel I would be sold.

2. This one has TIE Adv instead, just as tough and faster, but will rarely get to shoot anything (and lack counter). It's nearly as good, but the lack of attacks could be what prevents me from killing a few key enemy squadrons. On the plus side it gives a better bid AND Leading Shots (which sound good on paper, but honestly I never get much mileage from it).

3. Same as 2, except Instigator in place of Leading Shots.

4. Same as no. 2, but basic TIEs and with Ord Experts on the Raiders. Ord Experts is nice, gives a little higher dmg vs. fighters and more APT hits, but are hardly essential on these little fellows (most of the time just Screed is sufficient).

5. Same as 4, but again Instigator instead of Leading shots.

Which one do you prefer? Or are there other tweaks I could make?

Not that my opinion holds any weight, but i agree that OE is hardly useful on raiders. I personally dont like leading shots either, that being said, i have rolled my 8 front arc dice and botched it completely before, so a little guarantee might not be bad. but at the end of the day, you have screed so changing a miss to a crit is usually enough to make an average roll a great roll, making much less need for OE or LS.

I would go with list number 3 but swap out instigator for impetuous, to round out some damage that you are lacking from your advances... plus i just love impetuous.

OE is hardly useful on raiders.

Usually, this standpoint comes from not realizing that Ordnance Experts does apply to the Two-Black-Die Anti-Squadron attacks you get with a Raider-I.

If you are assuming just the Anti-Ship attacks, yes. It has only a small, small benefit... But in addition to the now almost guaranteed-two-damage versus all squadrons in Arc, the Anti-Squadron Raider really starts to shine.

OE is hardly useful on raiders.

Usually, this standpoint comes from not realizing that Ordnance Experts does apply to the Two-Black-Die Anti-Squadron attacks you get with a Raider-I.

If you are assuming just the Anti-Ship attacks, yes. It has only a small, small benefit... But in addition to the now almost guaranteed-two-damage versus all squadrons in Arc, the Anti-Squadron Raider really starts to shine.

i guess that is true. but with a black die at 75% chance to hit vs a squadron: that's 56% to do 2 damage, 37% to do 1 damage and only 6% to miss completely... and when adding OE, i would think you would only want to use it when you roll a miss, which means you have to roll a miss first... so by adding OE (if my math is correct) it costs 8 points to change your chances to: 66% for 2 damage, 33% for 1 damage, and 1% for 0.

now arguably that extra % could be worth while vs certain lists, as long as you know what you're buying.

EDIT: lol, remind me not to do math first thing in the morning...

OE on raiders changes percentages to:

83% for 2 damage thats a +27% from base

11% for 1 damage

less than 1% for 0 damage.

OE is hardly useful on raiders.

Usually, this standpoint comes from not realizing that Ordnance Experts does apply to the Two-Black-Die Anti-Squadron attacks you get with a Raider-I.

If you are assuming just the Anti-Ship attacks, yes. It has only a small, small benefit... But in addition to the now almost guaranteed-two-damage versus all squadrons in Arc, the Anti-Squadron Raider really starts to shine.

i guess that is true. but with a black die at 75% chance to hit vs a squadron: that's 56% to do 2 damage, 37% to do 1 damage and only 6% to miss completely... and when adding OE, i would think you would only want to use it when you roll a miss, which means you have to roll a miss first... so by adding OE (if my math is correct) it costs 8 points to change your chances to: 66% for 2 damage, 33% for 1 damage, and 1% for 0.

now arguably that extra % could be worth while vs certain lists, as long as you know what you're buying.

Indeed. Double so when stacked with the oft forgotten Impetuous

OE is hardly useful on raiders.

Usually, this standpoint comes from not realizing that Ordnance Experts does apply to the Two-Black-Die Anti-Squadron attacks you get with a Raider-I.

If you are assuming just the Anti-Ship attacks, yes. It has only a small, small benefit... But in addition to the now almost guaranteed-two-damage versus all squadrons in Arc, the Anti-Squadron Raider really starts to shine.

i guess that is true. but with a black die at 75% chance to hit vs a squadron: that's 56% to do 2 damage, 37% to do 1 damage and only 6% to miss completely... and when adding OE, i would think you would only want to use it when you roll a miss, which means you have to roll a miss first... so by adding OE (if my math is correct) it costs 8 points to change your chances to: 66% for 2 damage, 33% for 1 damage, and 1% for 0.

now arguably that extra % could be worth while vs certain lists, as long as you know what you're buying.

Indeed. Double so when stacked with the oft forgotten Impetuous

so i guess the real question is, is OE (with impetuous) worth dropping 2 advances to basic ties? and going for list number 5?

EDIT: and if you went with list 5, you really might want to think about going with instigator instead?

OE is hardly useful on raiders.

Usually, this standpoint comes from not realizing that Ordnance Experts does apply to the Two-Black-Die Anti-Squadron attacks you get with a Raider-I.

If you are assuming just the Anti-Ship attacks, yes. It has only a small, small benefit... But in addition to the now almost guaranteed-two-damage versus all squadrons in Arc, the Anti-Squadron Raider really starts to shine.

Yet I find myself getting Braced whenever I get 2 pts vs. a squad...so it's mostly just the 1 point in effect. Had I more squads the exhaustion of Brace tokens would be more useful. But yes, I usually run my Raiders with OE...but this time I wanted the ISD-II and it's a tight fit!

Run this. If you think you can safely add upgrades, toss APTs on the Raiders. And of course Screed for Motti.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/220020-devastator-list-for-experimentation/

Oh, and by the way, you can spend defense tokens on any attacks whether they hit or miss.

With Screed, I might drop the OE's on the Raiders if i put APTs on them to maintain the bid. But Motti really helps make sure that ISD sees turn 6.

Run this. If you think you can safely add upgrades, toss APTs on the Raiders. And of course Screed for Motti.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/220020-devastator-list-for-experimentation/

Oh, and by the way, you can spend defense tokens on any attacks whether they hit or miss.

With Screed, I might drop the OE's on the Raiders if i put APTs on them to maintain the bid. But Motti really helps make sure that ISD sees turn 6.

That's the first Devastator build I've seen to impress me!

It could work with Screed, but it's a little daunting to strip your ship of defense tokens and not bring Motti.

Run this. If you think you can safely add upgrades, toss APTs on the Raiders. And of course Screed for Motti.https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/220020-devastator-list-for-experimentation/

Oh, and by the way, you can spend defense tokens on any attacks whether they hit or miss.

With Screed, I might drop the OE's on the Raiders if i put APTs on them to maintain the bid. But Motti really helps make sure that ISD sees turn 6.

That's the first Devastator build I've seen to impress me!

It could work with Screed, but it's a little daunting to strip your ship of defense tokens and not bring Motti.

Thanks!

As you said, Motti really makes it work.

The key element is realizing that Devastator takes practice and timing to get the best out of it. You need to know every part of the attack process backwards and forwards (and keep the RRG handy because you wouldn't believe how many players don't realize how often you can dump those tokens). You also need to be prepared to commit to ab attack, it is very hard to take back an action by Devastator or salvage a mistake for obvious reasons.

Common working strategies:

-Use Demolisher to herd enemy ships back towards Dev while leaving Devastator to take long range potshots from enemies.

-Fly through squadron swarms beyond optimum range of the enemy guns, use the attacks to discard tokens.

-Treat Devastator as a standard Star Destroyer and do your primary attacks with Demolisher (good if they aren't shooting at Devastator).

-Use Devastator as a late game chaser, blast fleeing enemies with full front arc from long range.

Thing about raiders, black anti squadron dice are a pain to use. Instigator is the title that gets you the chance to use them. I love it. Raider, instigator, expanded hangers and O/E, token up and you can launch instigator, howl runner and 2 tie interceptors strait in there.

I just love parking instigator next to the Intel ship, the three ties each take a chunk ( leaving any fighter with two hull). Pile in some more ties and you second raider. They will not be able to make your ties heavy, so they have to shoot those interceptors or howl runner before instigator. Next round just watch the whole fighter ball melt as you have them banged to rights in your raiders arcs....fly away smiling.......

Thing about raiders, black anti squadron dice are a pain to use. Instigator is the title that gets you the chance to use them. I love it. Raider, instigator, expanded hangers and O/E, token up and you can launch instigator, howl runner and 2 tie interceptors strait in there.

I just love parking instigator next to the Intel ship, the three ties each take a chunk ( leaving any fighter with two hull). Pile in some more ties and you second raider. They will not be able to make your ties heavy, so they have to shoot those interceptors or howl runner before instigator. Next round just watch the whole fighter ball melt as you have them banged to rights in your raiders arcs....fly away smiling.......

Did this the other day with Instigator, Impetuous, and a vanilla OE Raider against a GGG Fireball. It's so delightful to watch 134 points of Firesprays, Aggressors, and Rhymer just melt away in one turn...