I had this happen to me while playing the D.E. today, and I think the D.E. got it right.

Amazon: "If you are defeated or have a standoff in battle, you may ignore the result and immediately fight that battle again. Any effects, special abilities, Objects, or Spells used in the first battle remain in effect for the second battle. You must accept the result of the second battle."

Wand of Dragonfire: "You may use the Wand when you are about to engage in battle with a character or creature. Roll 1 die and add your Craft. If the score is higher than the character's Strength, he must lose 1 life. If the score is higher than the creature's strength, it is killed. Enemies killed cannot be taken as trophies."

So I went up against the Amazon, who had three lives. I used the Wand and took her first life. We then engaged in battle, which I won. She chose to redo the battle.

At this point I was given the opportunity to use the wand again, which I did, and I took her second life. I won the battle again, and took her third life.

Since the Wand is not used IN battle but BEFORE battle (i.e., "when you are about to engage in battle"), it is perfectly acceptable to use it twice under these circumstances. The Amazon's special ability explicitly states that it is a "second battle," ergo the Wand may be used twice.

I had never made the connection that this was a possibility, but I'm glad I did. It's just something to tuck away in the back of my mind in case it pops up again.

I suppose this is correct, although it could be argued that when it says all items spells etc are still in effect that this could apply to the wand of dragonfire having been used already. Another one for the updated FAQ heap IMO.

I do not believe this was the intent of the card and this definitely a loophole that was abused. IN DE though, take what you get :-D

No i think it was the intent. Makes sense really. The amazon really should not use her ability if she can help it.

I had this happen to me while playing the D.E. today, and I think the D.E. got it right.

Amazon: "If you are defeated or have a standoff in battle, you may ignore the result and immediately fight that battle again. Any effects, special abilities, Objects, or Spells used in the first battle remain in effect for the second battle. You must accept the result of the second battle."

Wand of Dragonfire: "You may use the Wand when you are about to engage in battle with a character or creature. Roll 1 die and add your Craft. If the score is higher than the character's Strength, he must lose 1 life. If the score is higher than the creature's strength, it is killed. Enemies killed cannot be taken as trophies."

So I went up against the Amazon, who had three lives. I used the Wand and took her first life. We then engaged in battle, which I won. She chose to redo the battle.

At this point I was given the opportunity to use the wand again, which I did, and I took her second life. I won the battle again, and took her third life.

Since the Wand is not used IN battle but BEFORE battle (i.e., "when you are about to engage in battle"), it is perfectly acceptable to use it twice under these circumstances. The Amazon's special ability explicitly states that it is a "second battle," ergo the Wand may be used twice.

I had never made the connection that this was a possibility, but I'm glad I did. It's just something to tuck away in the back of my mind in case it pops up again.

Totally disagree. The Amazon is just ignoring the result of the first battle and fighting it again. The pre-battle phase ended before the first battle took place and the Wand cannot be used again.

Totally disagree. The Amazon is just ignoring the result of the first battle and fighting it again. The pre-battle phase ended before the first battle took place and the Wand cannot be used again.

Exactly. It states to immediately fight the battle again, not redo the whole turn.

Ha. FAQ!

It doesn't need to be in the FAQ.

The more I have thought through this the more I actually now disagree with the Digital Edition. There are other spells or items that include the wording "when you are about to engage in battle" that would not be used a second time. The same should hold true for this one.

The more I have thought through this the more I actually now disagree with the Digital Edition. There are other spells or items that include the wording "when you are about to engage in battle" that would not be used a second time. The same should hold true for this one.

Can you give me some examples there Osbo25 what other "when you are about to engage in battle" effects would not be used a second time?

Hmmm I suppose its because the Amazon is the one using her ability not the player who used the Dragonfire wand? Plus its before the battle not in the battle. That's the only way I can think that it does not work.

Its interesting.

It reads before engaging in battle on the wand, and the Amazon card says "you may fight the battle again." Pretty clearly it's a second battle and the wand can be used again. IMHO

It reads before engaging in battle on the wand, and the Amazon card says "you may fight the battle again." Pretty clearly it's a second battle and the wand can be used again. IMHO

Read what you wrote and tell me again why the wand should be used again for the 2nd battle?

The Dwarf lands on the Amazon and declares he is attacking her in battle. Before the Dwarf engages the Amazon in battle, he decides to use the Wand of Dragonfire against her. He is successful and forces the Amazon to lose a life. Battle then takes place. The Dwarf casts Psionic Blast on himself and the Amazon casts Energize on herself & also uses the Runesword. They both roll the die for their attack rolls. The result is a standoff, so the Amazon declares that she will IMMEDIATELY fight the battle again. Both Spells and the Runesword remain in effect for the second battle, as per the special ability. They both roll the die for their attack rolls. This time the Amazon wins and forces the Dwarf to lose a life, she then gains a life due to the Runesword. The turn then ends.

The Wand of Dragonfire cannot be used a second time for two reasons:

1) The second battle immediately takes place after the first battle.

2) The Wand of Dragonfire was not used during the first battle, as per the special ability; it was used before the first battle.

This is the correct way to handle the Wand of Dragonfire & Amazon!

Exactly. It is used before each battle, not during.

It is a second battle, it does not matter if it takes place immediately after another battle or not, the wand can be used. If the Amazon card said you can refight the battle I would agree that the wand cannot be used, but it says fight the battle again.

I realize you have convinced yourself that it gets used again but your argument only reinforces the fact it cannot be used again to me.. Lol

I don't have to convince myself of anything I really don't give a **** one way or the other.

You're wrong anyway lol

I love how some people come on here like jackasses and proclaim they're right. You're no more right than I am in my opinion. That's what makes them opinions. If you get hired at ffg and update the FAQ, then you can matter of state that I'm wrong. Btw if DE sides with me, I'm probably right.

Btw if DE sides with me, I'm probably right.

'giggles'

But seriously I've been convinced it says on the Amazons text "Any effects, special abilities, Objects, or Spells used in the first battle remain in effect for the second battle" The Dragonfire Wand is not in the first battle because it says on the Dragonfire Wand "You may use the Wand when you are about to engage in battle with a character or creature" that in turn clearly stats it's not in the battle.

Good to get these rules clarified, I would of played it the other way until I myself "woke up" . And Talismanamsilat is right it does not need to be FAQ'ed given its really clearly defined.

I'm liking uvatha more and more. But seriously I'd seriously pay the daily salary of two ffg employees to get an updated FAQ. Not kidding.

I'm liking uvatha more and more. But seriously I'd seriously pay the daily salary of two ffg employees to get an updated FAQ. Not kidding.

Sounds good, get to it . I'm sure FFG would be up for that as well. So long of course the employees are free to make official faq rulings without outside influences.

Sooooo........I'm still waffling on whether or not I agree with the D.E. Here are two points to consider:

1. The Wand of Dragonfire is different from any other spells, objects, followers, etc. that affect a battle in that the Wand of Dragonfire does not have a lasting effect. For example, if someone casts Energize before a battle, that spell has the lasting effect of doubling that character's strength value through the entire turn. Or if someone uses the Rune Sword, it has the lasting effect of increasing the attack roll by 1 for the duration of that battle.

But the Wand of Dragonfire does not have such a lasting effect. It's effect is instantaneous: lose one life. Then it's done. There is no effect to "remain in effect" (as stated in the Amazon's special abilities). It's over and done. As such, it would be fair game to use again when the second battle takes place.

HOWEVER

2. If you think of a battle in terms of phases you have three distinct phases: pre-battle, battle, and post-battle. In the pre-battle phase you do all of those things that prep you for the battle (such as casting spells, declaring which objects/followers will be used, etc.). This is when the Wand of Dragonfire would be used. In the battle phase you conduct the battle. In the post-battle phase the winner claims his prize.

The Amazon's special ability is only referring to the battle phase portion of the encounter. You don't go back and re-prep for the battle. You don't cast any additional spells. You don't use any additional objects. All the Amazon is doing is re-fighting the battle.

From this perspective the Wand of Dragonfire could not be used again, seeing as the pre-battle phase is not being redone. It is only the battle. That is, the whole "you are about to engage in battle" portion of the Wand of Dragonfire doesn't happen a second time. Only the battle itself happens a second time.

All-in-all, I think I am still leaning in the direction of this second point, but I can certainly see legitimacy in the first point, and I would not object if that's how the rule was clarified by the likely-never-to-happen FAQ update.

Ya that's a pretty good argument. I dunno. FAQ!

Ya that's a pretty good argument. I dunno. FAQ!

Well its good that you are paying for the FAQ now Joker! We will find out whats right once its done.