When you go to a store and say, "Want to play X-Wing?" and mention alternate formats - HotAC, missions, Epic - the tourney-only players start to get that scared look in their eyes and you can see the wheels visibly turning. "What? Unfamiliar format? I don't know the best builds... is he angling for an easy win? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY THAT WAY!!!"

More likely they packed their stuff and drove to the store expecting to play a few 100 point games.

Which is because the 100 point game is all anyone ever expects to play, because that's all anyone EVER plays. Because FFG said the standard game is 100 points and no one wants to try anything else.

That's why articles like this are important, to try and get people moving AWAY from exclusively playing tournament format games.

I liked the article.

You, my friend, get another hug.

and now anger at someone talking about other ways to play.... People still cannot be satisfied. Both options work, but a lot of locales scene is mostly the tournament practice crowd. Eh. is what it is.

They talk the talk but do they walk the walk?

By which I mean subforums.

Namely ones starting with P and ending with Ainting.

Could also make a Competitive subforum and stick it aaaaall in there.

One good thing about Games Workshop tournaments is that the corporation will not touch them with a ten foot pole. For the better, in my opinion. Tournament organizers have done a great job at fixing the game for competitive play... and we accept things like comp, creative missions that address balance issues, and creative formats of the game (well at least some of us do).

Exactly. The 40K rule set is hot garbage, but the tournament system is great despite that, because there IS NO single tournament system. Games might be anything from 750 to 2250 points, with rulebook missions or specially created missions unique to the event, and they'll all have different scoring rules for how much a win, loss or draw is worth, for how the scores are weighted to determine first rankings, etc.

This FFG 'one format to rule them all' thing really blows me away. I know everyone is free to run any kind of tournament however they want, but there's an unhealthy fascination with doing things the official FFG way. It comes back to what I said about gamers being precious (and not just X Wing gamers, all gamers!) and not wanting to deviate from anything official. You're always going to have people on the fringes of a gaming community who love doing the odd-ball stuff, but convincing the rest of the herd to try new stuff is always hard. One thing is for sure, if FFG had never stated that 100 was the 'standard' game and never tried to run their own tournament system, there'd be a lot more variety in competitive X Wing play.

They talk the talk but do they walk the walk?

By which I mean subforums.

Namely ones starting with P and ending with Ainting.

Could also make a Competitive subforum and stick it aaaaall in there.

I've heard there was such a thing as a best painted prize. But no, that's crazy talk. What insane person would value well painted miniatures? And if you bought an FFG product just to paint it!?? Throw that guy in a padded room.

Here's my slow golf clap for more useless bickering between competitive and casual demagogues. Congrats on making the same self-righteous points that expound upon the virtues of YOUR preferred way to play while vilifying the other way. Bravo. Well played.

One good thing about Games Workshop tournaments is that the corporation will not touch them with a ten foot pole. For the better, in my opinion. Tournament organizers have done a great job at fixing the game for competitive play... and we accept things like comp, creative missions that address balance issues, and creative formats of the game (well at least some of us do).

Exactly. The 40K rule set is hot garbage, but the tournament system is great despite that, because there IS NO single tournament system. Games might be anything from 750 to 2250 points, with rulebook missions or specially created missions unique to the event, and they'll all have different scoring rules for how much a win, loss or draw is worth, for how the scores are weighted to determine first rankings, etc.

This FFG 'one format to rule them all' thing really blows me away. I know everyone is free to run any kind of tournament however they want, but there's an unhealthy fascination with doing things the official FFG way. It comes back to what I said about gamers being precious (and not just X Wing gamers, all gamers!) and not wanting to deviate from anything official. You're always going to have people on the fringes of a gaming community who love doing the odd-ball stuff, but convincing the rest of the herd to try new stuff is always hard. One thing is for sure, if FFG had never stated that 100 was the 'standard' game and never tried to run their own tournament system, there'd be a lot more variety in competitive X Wing play.

Or if they did something like WotC did with Magic and have official tournaments in different formats - a few Epic 300, a few team Epic, and ran 100-point tournaments with different scenarios, like every game being "Escort the Diplomat's Shuttle" while random-rolling who's attacker and who's defender...

But that's water under a bridge now.

When you go to a store and say, "Want to play X-Wing?" and mention alternate formats - HotAC, missions, Epic - the tourney-only players start to get that scared look in their eyes and you can see the wheels visibly turning. "What? Unfamiliar format? I don't know the best builds... is he angling for an easy win? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY THAT WAY!!!"

More likely they packed their stuff and drove to the store expecting to play a few 100 point games.

Which is because the 100 point game is all anyone ever expects to play, because that's all anyone EVER plays. Because FFG said the standard game is 100 points and no one wants to try anything else.

That's why articles like this are important, to try and get people moving AWAY from exclusively playing tournament format games.

If you want a local X-Wing community that's not focused on 100 point play, build one. Don't show up in an established community and expect to siphon off players. Advertise for the thing you want to do and try to get people to show up, you'll find people are more receptive that way.

Here's my slow golf clap for more useless bickering between competitive and casual demagogues. Congrats on making the same self-righteous points that expound upon the virtues of YOUR preferred way to play while vilifying the other way. Bravo. Well played.

You forgot self-serving. I was definitely going for that angle as well. Your razor-sharp critique of our pointless, asinine bickering has punctured through the layers of delusion wrapping around my sense of self. You hit the nail on the head, we're demagogues. God help us that we are only controlling tiny plastic spaceships, and not a nuclear arsenal. Nothing left to do now really except blow my brains out.

Have you ever thought about pursuing a career of journalism? I think you have a gift.

Well, I for one liked the article. Glad they're reminding us that there's much more to Xwing than just the 100pt knock down. I think they are actually surprised that this format has lasted so long given that most of their other content is very story driven.

I really enjoy the campaign/scenario missions and when introducing others it's a great hook. I just hope they put their money where their mouth is and bring out scenario packs/campaigns and promote the other aspects of this great game beyond ..."well it's up to you to make this stuff up"...

It may not be as commercially lucrative but produce scenario packs like you do with your RPG/descent games etc.

When you go to a store and say, "Want to play X-Wing?" and mention alternate formats - HotAC, missions, Epic - the tourney-only players start to get that scared look in their eyes and you can see the wheels visibly turning. "What? Unfamiliar format? I don't know the best builds... is he angling for an easy win? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY THAT WAY!!!"

More likely they packed their stuff and drove to the store expecting to play a few 100 point games.

Which is because the 100 point game is all anyone ever expects to play, because that's all anyone EVER plays. Because FFG said the standard game is 100 points and no one wants to try anything else.

That's why articles like this are important, to try and get people moving AWAY from exclusively playing tournament format games.

If you want a local X-Wing community that's not focused on 100 point play, build one. Don't show up in an established community and expect to siphon off players. Advertise for the thing you want to do and try to get people to show up, you'll find people are more receptive that way.

I will say that is often how groups start out, but they usually swing towards the more tournaments side of things as time goes on. I built my local X-Wing scene and was always into the Casual play, but more often than not you'll find people playing tournament style most weeknights.

If you want a local X-Wing community that's not focused on 100 point play, build one.

I did. My local community is great.

Yeah Atlanta doesn't have this problem. We have 2 full HotAC campaigns running, with enough players to have alternates if someone can't make it. I just developed an alt-free for all mode and we draw upwards of 25-30 players for a Tuesday weeknight 3-round tournament where we usually give away the latest release.

Develop your community. The game is only as good as the people you play it with.

When there's a PR blitz like this it's usually just ahead of some major news. Hoping for Rogue One or Wave IX news either on Friday or next week.

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

*sigh*

You can be just as serious about winning a cinematic match as a store tourney. It's all X Wing.

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

If by tournament format you mean 100 points and six asteroids, there's no difference in pressure to win that mission compared to any other x wing game. The pressure can come from an actual tournament, sure. When you're playing for a title, for a regionals bye, etc. then of course there's more pressure.

But you can have pressure outside of tournaments, too, actually. Pressure comes from investment in the outcome of the game, and if you're playing in a campaign, there can be a lot of pressure to win a mission. Especially if you're playing with mortal pilots. Some of the most stressful games I've played were campaigns flying with unique pilots I had leveled up from PS1 and had actually grown attached to.

Nobody cares if Darth Vader dies in a tournament (aside from how it affects your chances of winning that particular match). But try playing with a pilot for seven or eight games, watching them go from zero to hero, knowing that if you screw up your game you could lose the pilot permanently. That's pressure. And losing those pilots hurts , let me tell you. You just can't get the same feeling flying tournament format.

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

WHY SO SERIOUS? sorry I had to. I was going to look up a .gif or something but just too lazy.

Just off the top of my head, potentially some other ways people can be serious or find stuff rewarding:

-people who love the star wars universe and recreating the battles in it. And collecting toys that are star wars. Yeah, totally none of those. moving on.

-people who like variety. Nope. don't see that happening. Most people I know would probably just have one shade of grey in the universe instead of seeing color. And wear the same suit every day to work, and probably instead of talking just hum to each other like bees.

-people who like creativity. Well maybe, umm, no. I think most people would rather just consume all their products from one corporation, have quasi-slave chinese workers make it for them, and then flush it down the toilet or send it to the landfill. Definitely not happening.

It's classic ffg....hahaha!!!

They post an article the community could have used weeks ago.during the I.D. uproar .

It's beautiful!

Impeccable timing!

When that was happening they should have listed this article as 'in development '

Then a few weeks on a boat ...

Bam...article reminding people about alternative playstyle drops...

Weeks later!

We've been beautifully trolled !

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

If by tournament format you mean 100 points and six asteroids, there's no difference in pressure to win that mission compared to any other x wing game. The pressure can come from an actual tournament, sure. When you're playing for a title, for a regionals bye, etc. then of course there's more pressure.

But you can have pressure outside of tournaments, too, actually. Pressure comes from investment in the outcome of the game, and if you're playing in a campaign, there can be a lot of pressure to win a mission. Especially if you're playing with mortal pilots. Some of the most stressful games I've played were campaigns flying with unique pilots I had leveled up from PS1 and had actually grown attached to.

Nobody cares if Darth Vader dies in a tournament (aside from how it affects your chances of winning that particular match). But try playing with a pilot for seven or eight games, watching them go from zero to hero, knowing that if you screw up your game you could lose the pilot permanently. That's pressure. And losing those pilots hurts , let me tell you. You just can't get the same feeling flying tournament format.

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

WHY SO SERIOUS? sorry I had to. I was going to look up a .gif or something but just too lazy.

Just off the top of my head, potentially some other ways people can be serious or find stuff rewarding:

-people who love the star wars universe and recreating the battles in it. And collecting toys that are star wars. Yeah, totally none of those. moving on.

-people who like variety. Nope. don't see that happening. Most people I know would probably just have one shade of grey in the universe instead of seeing color. And wear the same suit every day to work, and probably instead of talking just hum to each other like bees.

-people who like creativity. Well maybe, umm, no. I think most people would rather just consume all their products from one corporation, have quasi-slave chinese workers make it for them, and then flush it down the toilet or send it to the landfill. Definitely not happening.

Sorry .. I don't mean to step on peoples toes or anything. But that's still how I see it.. I've played some casual games and I've played campaign games of other games (like Imperial Assault) .. and while they are definitely enjoyable and investing, it is nowhere near as exciting as being 4-1 in a high level tournament needing that last win to make the Top X cut, or being heads up in the finals of the elimination for a regionals/nationals/X open/worlds. It's just not the same .. not to me and I speculate not for the majority of people.

It's how I feel ... sorry.

Seems like the article states the obvious. Do we really need someone to remind you/us to play for fun?

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

If by tournament format you mean 100 points and six asteroids, there's no difference in pressure to win that mission compared to any other x wing game. The pressure can come from an actual tournament, sure. When you're playing for a title, for a regionals bye, etc. then of course there's more pressure.

But you can have pressure outside of tournaments, too, actually. Pressure comes from investment in the outcome of the game, and if you're playing in a campaign, there can be a lot of pressure to win a mission. Especially if you're playing with mortal pilots. Some of the most stressful games I've played were campaigns flying with unique pilots I had leveled up from PS1 and had actually grown attached to.

Nobody cares if Darth Vader dies in a tournament (aside from how it affects your chances of winning that particular match). But try playing with a pilot for seven or eight games, watching them go from zero to hero, knowing that if you screw up your game you could lose the pilot permanently. That's pressure. And losing those pilots hurts , let me tell you. You just can't get the same feeling flying tournament format.

Tournament format is always going to be the most popular. Because that is where there are high stakes .. (yes even if it is just a low level tourney..) being the best in the group creates a motivation to succeed (and prizes help too). When players have motivation to succeed, suddenly all of your maneuvers matter more, all of your actions matter more, your choice of ships and upgrade cards matters more. Everything matters more, its more exciting and allows people to live the dream of traveling to places to play in the high level tournaments defeat the toughest opponents and be the best of the best etc..

You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed.

WHY SO SERIOUS? sorry I had to. I was going to look up a .gif or something but just too lazy.

Just off the top of my head, potentially some other ways people can be serious or find stuff rewarding:

-people who love the star wars universe and recreating the battles in it. And collecting toys that are star wars. Yeah, totally none of those. moving on.

-people who like variety. Nope. don't see that happening. Most people I know would probably just have one shade of grey in the universe instead of seeing color. And wear the same suit every day to work, and probably instead of talking just hum to each other like bees.

-people who like creativity. Well maybe, umm, no. I think most people would rather just consume all their products from one corporation, have quasi-slave chinese workers make it for them, and then flush it down the toilet or send it to the landfill. Definitely not happening.

Sorry .. I don't mean to step on peoples toes or anything. But that's still how I see it.. I've played some casual games and I've played campaign games of other games (like Imperial Assault) .. and while they are definitely enjoyable and investing, it is nowhere near as exciting as being 4-1 in a high level tournament needing that last win to make the Top X cut, or being heads up in the finals of the elimination for a regionals/nationals/X open/worlds. It's just not the same .. not to me and I speculate not for the majority of people.

It's how I feel ... sorry.

*edit* No need to apologize, not to me anyway!

Well, of course top tables in big tournaments like worlds are really high stakes and very exciting! I don't think anyone would say that they aren't.

I just disagree with what you seemed to be saying about there not being any pressure in any game that is not in a tournament. That's just not true. Are there going to be games outside of tournaments that exceed the drama involved in the top table at worlds? Probably not. But that's not the same as there being no pressure. Maybe I'm taking you out of context, since you said:

"You will never top [the excitement of tournament format] with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed."

Strictly speaking, in a casual game there isn't pressure to win. But casual is kind of a catch-all term for any x-wing game that isn't the tournament format, and I got the sense that this catch-all meaning was what you meant.

I'm not trying to say casual play>tournament play. That isn't what FFG is saying either - I think we're just trying to say that the alternative formats can be really fun and engaging, and they're worth trying.

*edit* and to be clear, when I say that you can't get the same pressure in tournaments that you get from flying a mortal pilot in a campaign, I don't mean that it is a more intense pressure; rather it is a different flavor. The sense of ownership and vulnerability makes you feel something that I don't think you would normally feel in a tournament.

wdf. What a waste of time article?

Agreed. This article was trash, for a few reasons.

1.) "There is nothing wrong with 100 point standard matches, but you could ban ships or play epic if you wanted to to spice things up a bit." Fine, I agree. But they padded out that one sentence for an entire article.

2.) Fly casual. Yes, can't wait for someone flying "casually" to get angry with me when they're denied a trigger they've missed. What a great ideology, let's create the expectation that players hold each others' hands so that when someone won't hold their hand they'll feel justified throwing a tantrum.

How this article could have been better:

FFG officially backing a, "casual" format for tournaments. Like the Top Gun format or even the bring 2 lists, no shared uniques format. Something that would draw more casuals to events, and that would prevent just getting punished by Soontir Fel or U-Boats or Super Dash.

Top Gun format is you build 3 30 point small based ships, no unique pilots or upgrades.

If you want a local X-Wing community that's not focused on 100 point play, build one.

I did. My local community is great.

Then apparently gamers aren't too precious or scared to try new things. You set an expectation that there would be all sorts of non-standard play and other X-Wing Tom-foolery and were able to get what you were looking for.

There's no need to berate players that want to play 100 point matches for having bad-wrong fun. Different people are looking for different things out of the hobby.