Dengar's ability states:

"Once per round after defending, if the attack is inside your firing arc, you may perform an attack against that ship."

The text makes no mention of range. In a situation that occurred last night, Kenkirk was firing at Dengar. Kenkirk had a range 3 shot with his turret, but was at Range 4 in arc of Dengar. Can Dengar use his ability to return fire on Kenkirk?

I was pretty sure Dengar could, because there is no mention of range, and technically Kenkirk is in Dengar's firing arc. We played it as though Dengar could not take the shot, because we weren't sure, and we were just having a scrimmage game.

How does the community read the rules about this interaction? Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3, or does it extend to the edge of the map?

See the diagram below for a visualization.

The check for arc and range are separate. Dengar's ability doesn't specify that the return attack is restricted to his arc, only that the attacker he is responding to is.

Dengar's ability just lets him perform an attack out of sequence. It doesn't override the normal condition that, in order to perform an attack, you have to have a weapon that can attack the target. In this case, Dengar would say "Oh, cool, I'm going to attack Kenkirk. Hmm... select weapon... I guess I can't attack Kenkirk. Frowny face."

Edit:

The check for arc and range are separate. Dengar's ability doesn't specify that the return attack is restricted to his arc, only that the attacker he is responding to is.

But if Dengar has, say, a CR-90 in arc at Range 4, he can't counterattack with his ability.

Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3? Yes. Why would it not? Rules of Play pg 10: If the ruler is not long enough to reach the target ship, the ship is considered out of range and cannot be targeted.

Should have replied: the target ship must be inside the attacker's firing arc and within range.

Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3? Yes. Why would it not? Rules of Play pg 10: If the ruler is not long enough to reach the target ship, the ship is considered out of range and cannot be targeted.

That's not accurate. What you quoted is dealing with the range of the attack, not checking for arc. The only length limit to the arc is the size of the play area.

RRG, pg. 11:

Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3? Yes. Why would it not? Rules of Play pg 10: If the ruler is not long enough to reach the target ship, the ship is considered out of range and cannot be targeted.

That's not accurate. What you quoted is dealing with the range of the attack, not checking for arc. The only length limit to the arc is the size of the play area.

RRG, pg. 11:

'FIRING ARC

A ship’s primary firing arc is the area formed by

extending the firing arc lines printed on the front of

the ship’s token. A firing arc extends across the play

area. A ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its

base falls inside the area formed by extending the

firing-arc lines.'

I concede your point.

Back to the original question. Can Dengar fire or not?

Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3? Yes. Why would it not? Rules of Play pg 10: If the ruler is not long enough to reach the target ship, the ship is considered out of range and cannot be targeted.

That's not accurate. What you quoted is dealing with the range of the attack, not checking for arc. The only length limit to the arc is the size of the play area.

RRG, pg. 11:

'FIRING ARC

A ship’s primary firing arc is the area formed by

extending the firing arc lines printed on the front of

the ship’s token. A firing arc extends across the play

area. A ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its

base falls inside the area formed by extending the

firing-arc lines.'

I concede your point.

Back to the original question. Can Dengar fire or not?

Yup. The attacker is in his arc, and he has a weapon that has a legal attack on the ship that triggered his ability..

Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3? Yes. Why would it not? Rules of Play pg 10: If the ruler is not long enough to reach the target ship, the ship is considered out of range and cannot be targeted.

That's not accurate. What you quoted is dealing with the range of the attack, not checking for arc. The only length limit to the arc is the size of the play area.

RRG, pg. 11:

'FIRING ARC

A ship’s primary firing arc is the area formed by

extending the firing arc lines printed on the front of

the ship’s token. A firing arc extends across the play

area. A ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its

base falls inside the area formed by extending the

firing-arc lines.'

I concede your point.

Back to the original question. Can Dengar fire or not?

Yup. The attacker is in his arc, and he has a weapon that has a legal attack on the ship that triggered his ability..

Hmph. Interesting I never realized the RRG says that it extends across the entire play area and not the imaginary 80* circular slice covered by the range ruler.

How many additional green dice does the defenders get in this case?

Does Dengar's firing arc end at Range 3? Yes. Why would it not? Rules of Play pg 10: If the ruler is not long enough to reach the target ship, the ship is considered out of range and cannot be targeted.

That's not accurate. What you quoted is dealing with the range of the attack, not checking for arc. The only length limit to the arc is the size of the play area.

RRG, pg. 11:

'FIRING ARC

A ship’s primary firing arc is the area formed by

extending the firing arc lines printed on the front of

the ship’s token. A firing arc extends across the play

area. A ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its

base falls inside the area formed by extending the

firing-arc lines.'

I concede your point.

Back to the original question. Can Dengar fire or not?

Yup. The attacker is in his arc, and he has a weapon that has a legal attack on the ship that triggered his ability..

Sorry, nothing to add cannot delete!!!!!!!!!

WWHSD, so have I've been playing Nera Dantels wrong also. You can perform secondary weapon attacks against enemy ships outside your firing arc. So I can fire at any ship on the table!

No. They still have a range limit.

Dengar gets the counter-attack because the ship is in arc regardless of range, which his card does not specify as a limitation. The counter-attack in this case, however, is range 3 because that's the shortest distance. Good post!

how about where in the rules, under attack, it states.

To perform an attack, the ship resolves the following steps in order:

1. Declare Target: The attacker may measure range to any number of enemy ships and check which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then the attacker chooses one of his weapons to attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to be the target and pays any costs required for the attack. • If attacking with a primary weapon, the target must be inside the attacker’s firing arc and at Range 1–3.

So no.

How many additional green dice does the defenders get in this case?

Based on the picture the defender would get one extra green die because it looks like a range 3 attack from a primary weapon.

Unless a ship has a special ability that says otherwise you can only ever get a maximum of 1 extra green die due to range.

Dengar gets the counter-attack because the ship is in arc regardless of range, which his card does not specify as a limitation. The counter-attack in this case, however, is range 3 because that's the shortest distance. Good post!

Nera's ability also does not specify a range limitation. That does not mean there is not one.

Dengar gets the counter-attack because the ship is in arc regardless of range, which his card does not specify as a limitation. The counter-attack in this case, however, is range 3 because that's the shortest distance. Good post!

Nera's ability also does not specify a range limitation. That does not mean there is not one.

Both Dengar and Nera are limited by the range of the weapon they attack with. The arc check for Dengar's ability has no range constraints.

If this were an Epic game and Dengar was attacked by CR-90 sitting dead in front of him at range 5, you would verify that the CR-90 was in arc. Dengar's ability can trigger. Now you go through the steps for performing an attack. You check the range and see that it is range 5. Since Dengar has no weapon that works at that range, he is unable to attack.

In the example in the OP, you verify that the Decimator is in arc. Dengar's ability can trigger. Now you go through the steps for performing an attack. Because Dengar is using a turret, you measure closest point to closest point and see that it is range 3. Since Dengar has a weapon that works at that range, he is able to attack.

Dengar gets the counter-attack because the ship is in arc regardless of range, which his card does not specify as a limitation. The counter-attack in this case, however, is range 3 because that's the shortest distance. Good post!

Nera's ability also does not specify a range limitation. That does not mean there is not one.

That's a good point, but in Nera's case the torpedo sets the range limit per that weapon's card.

"You can perform (torpedo symbol) secondary weapon attacks against enemy ships outside your firing arc."

In the diagram of the OP, Dengar has a range 3 primary weapon counter-attack after qualifying the attacker as being in arc (which is not range limited per the card or rules). Thus, Dengar couldn't counter with a torpedo, but he can counter with his primary weapon. A strange case for sure, but allowable.

The same thing could happen to Nera, when a ship is beyond range 3 in arc, but within range outside of arc. Torpedoes away in that case!

how about where in the rules, under attack, it states.

To perform an attack, the ship resolves the following steps in order:

1. Declare Target: The attacker may measure range to any number of enemy ships and check which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then the attacker chooses one of his weapons to attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to be the target and pays any costs required for the attack. • If attacking with a primary weapon, the target must be inside the attacker’s firing arc and at Range 1–3.

So no.

"ATTACK

A ship can perform one attack when it becomes the

active ship during the Combat phase. To perform an attack, the ship resolves the following steps in order:

1. Declare Target: The attacker may measure

range to any number of enemy ships and check

which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then

the attacker chooses one of his weapons to

attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to

be the target and pays any costs required for the

attack.

• If attacking with a primary weapon, the target

must be inside the attacker’s firing arc and at

Range 1–3.

• If attacking with a turret primary weapon, the

target must be at Range 1–3 but does not need

to be inside firing arc." p.4 of the Rules Reference.

That last bullet is key here.

Spoiler alert: don't be surprised if this gets an errata to keep the target at Range 3 and in arc.

I just suspect it might be the intention and may get more defined. I could be wrong and FFG may see this as being such a rare occurance that it's just not an issue.

Spoiler alert: don't be surprised if this gets an errata to keep the target at Range 3 and in arc.

I just suspect it might be the intention and may get more defined. I could be wrong and FFG may see this as being such a rare occurance that it's just not an issue.

Unless Dengar starts crushing, I wouldn't expect it to change. Even then, I don't really see an issue. The attacker needs to be a legal target for him, and it needs to be in his arc. I think a change would needlessly nerf his ability and make it a bit harder to deal with.

I think it's still quite a corner case and the chances of it coming up often are extremely rare, so more than likely not an issue. But lesser things have been FAQ'ed around with in the past.