So, considering using Reinforced Deflectors in the near future, but got a couple of rules questions. May have been answered already but in my search all I could find was people discussing both sides of the coin.

1) Reinforced Deflectors vs Crits

I take a hit and a crit. The crit is revealed to be a Direct Hit. Did I suffer 2 damage (a hit and a crit) and it's just that one of those damage I suffered counts as 2 for destroying my ship, or did I suffer 3 damage and trigger the regen?

Same question for if it's Major Explosion instead of Direct Hit.

2) Reinforced Deflectors vs Plasma Torpedoes

I have 3 shields and my opponent rolls 2 damage with his Plasma Torpedo. I ASSUME that the additional shield removal of Plasma Torpedoes doesn't count as 'suffering damage' and does not trigger the regen?

I have 3 shields and my opponent rolls 3 damage with his Plasma Torpedo. The Reinforced Deflectors trigger, but do I add that shield back BEFORE the Plasma Torpedo ability triggers to remove an extra shield (-3, +1 -1) or AFTER (-3, -1, +1)?

3) Are there any other common Reinforced Deflectors rules oddities I should be aware of before I equip it?

Cheers!

I literally posted something about this at the same time as you!!!!

I literally posted something about this at the same time as you!!!!

Great (and confused) minds think alike!

(1) You suffered two damage and one critical damage. As written, Reinforced Deflectors does not trigger.

(2a) Correct: the extra shield removed by Plasma Torpedoes is not the same as suffering damage. Reinforced Deflectors cannot be activated.

(2b) Since Plasma Torpedoes and Reinforced Deflectors have the same timing, the order depends on initiative. If you have initiative, it's -3/+1/-1. If your opponent has initiative, it's -3/-1/+1.

(3) Uh, I don't think so?

Perfect, thanks!

Remember, Direct Hit! is still a crit but it counts as 2 damage on your hull.

Remember, Direct Hit! is still a crit but it counts as 2 damage on your hull.

Yeah, but the extra point of damage from a Direct Hit doesn't count as "suffer[ing] damage" for the purposes of triggering Reinforced Deflectors.

I would of thought it did but everyone seems to think it doesn't and I can't find anywhere to say otherwise

I would of thought it did but everyone seems to think it doesn't and I can't find anywhere to say otherwise

Ditto.

It would be good if this could be clarified.

Remember, Direct Hit! is still a crit but it counts as 2 damage on your hull.

Yeah, but the extra point of damage from a Direct Hit doesn't count as "suffer[ing] damage" for the purposes of triggering Reinforced Deflectors.

That's correct, that's why I said it just counts as 2 damage on your hull, you still only suffered the crit. You could make the argument that you've suffered the damage and maybe FFG FAQs it that way, but right now, you're suffering a crit that counts as 2 hull damage.

Remember, Direct Hit! is still a crit but it counts as 2 damage on your hull.

Yeah, but the extra point of damage from a Direct Hit doesn't count as "suffer[ing] damage" for the purposes of triggering Reinforced Deflectors.

The initial point of damage from Direct Hit doesn't count either does it since it is Critical Damage and Reinforced Deflectors only triggers on Damage?

Remember, Direct Hit! is still a crit but it counts as 2 damage on your hull.

Yeah, but the extra point of damage from a Direct Hit doesn't count as "suffer[ing] damage" for the purposes of triggering Reinforced Deflectors.

The initial point of damage from Direct Hit doesn't count either does it since it is Critical Damage and Reinforced Deflectors only triggers on Damage?

Is this correct? It doesn't seem right to me that 'damage' should exclude 'critical damage' but I'm not sure whether there's RAW on this score.

Is there anything from this wave that DOESN'T need clarifying right now?

Damage comes in 2 varieties but they are both damage.

Remember, Direct Hit! is still a crit but it counts as 2 damage on your hull.

Yeah, but the extra point of damage from a Direct Hit doesn't count as "suffer[ing] damage" for the purposes of triggering Reinforced Deflectors.

The initial point of damage from Direct Hit doesn't count either does it since it is Critical Damage and Reinforced Deflectors only triggers on Damage?

Is this correct? It doesn't seem right to me that 'damage' should exclude 'critical damage' but I'm not sure whether there's RAW on this score.

Is there anything from this wave that DOESN'T need clarifying right now?

Based on timing on the card, and the wording of the Deal Damage step, if you got hit with "hit,hit,hit,crit" you would suffer the 3 damage, regain a shield, and then suffer the critical damage.

RRG, pg. 4

'7. Deal Damage: If the defender was hit,

No that is wrong. The card says 3 or more damage. So it triggers after all damage has been suffered.

That definitely does seem to imply that critical damage is not a subset of damage.

As with R4D6 that makes the card potentially a lot less useful.

No that is wrong. The card says 3 or more damage. So it triggers after all damage has been suffered.

That's what I thought before seeing this thread. Everything I can find in the RRG about suffering damage calls out "suffering damage" and "suffering critical damage" as separate things.

No that is wrong. The card says 3 or more damage. So it triggers after all damage has been suffered.

That's what I thought before seeing this thread. Everything I can find in the RRG about suffering damage calls out "suffering damage" and "suffering critical damage" as separate things.

Can you quote the RRG where it refers to suffering critical damage?

No that is wrong. The card says 3 or more damage. So it triggers after all damage has been suffered.

That's what I thought before seeing this thread. Everything I can find in the RRG about suffering damage calls out "suffering damage" and "suffering critical damage" as separate things.

Can you quote the RRG where it refers to suffering critical damage?

I already have.

But here's a different spot that it shows up:

RRG page 9. The Damage reference 2 types of damage. Normal and Critical. By the definition in the RRG they are both damage. They have the same effect on shields, and they both deal a Damage card against unshielded targets, face down for normal and face up for critical.

If FFG wants to distinguish them on a card they will specify criitcal damage, face up or down damage cards or Hit result and Critical Hit result icons.

RRG page 9. The Damage reference 2 types of damage. Normal and Critical. By the definition in the RRG they are both damage. They have the same effect on shields, and they both deal a Damage card against unshielded targets, face down for normal and face up for critical.

If FFG wants to distinguish them on a card they will specify criitcal damage, face up or down damage cards or Hit result and Critical Hit result icons.

Yes I can see the wording here. Unless they say critical damage, damage should include both normal and critical. Reinforced Declectors doesn't say face up, face down, normal damage or critical damage.

There might be something to this.

RRG page 9. The Damage reference 2 types of damage. Normal and Critical. By the definition in the RRG they are both damage. They have the same effect on shields, and they both deal a Damage card against unshielded targets, face down for normal and face up for critical.

If FFG wants to distinguish them on a card they will specify criitcal damage, face up or down damage cards or Hit result and Critical Hit result icons.

In that block (which I quoted above) they twice refer to 'suffering damage' and 'suffering critical damage' separately. I don't see anything in the rules that says that suffering critical damage is the same thing as suffering damage.

For it's cost, Reinforced Deflectors needs to count crits, The rules and the wording on the card seem to suggest that they don't. I'd be happy to see a FAQ or errata drop that makes Reinforced Deflectors work the way that they appear to at first glance.

I do see the problem. Sometimes damage means only non critical damage and other times it means both critical and non critical damage as a general term.

Step 7 in combat I'd deal damage. But you suffer both types of damage, not only non critical damage.

So is damage generic or specific?

I do see the problem. Sometimes damage means only non critical damage and other times it means both critical and non critical damage as a general term.

Step 7 in combat I'd deal damage. But you suffer both types of damage, not only non critical damage.

So is damage generic or specific?

That interpretation also changes the timing of when Reinforced Deflects trigger. The way I interpret it, you'd suffer all the damage from an attack, then Reinforced Deflectors could trigger giving back a shield, and then you suffer critical damage. That would only really come into play with attacks of 4+ dice though.

Does the card regenerate only 1 shield token per 3 or more damage dealt or does it continue to regenerate a shield token each turn up till it's shield value?