When is a Free Action not a Free Action?

By zymurgy65, in X-Wing Rules Questions

Isard cannot be used when stressed, or with (the new) damaged sensor array, as she reads (paraphrasing) ..."perform a free evade action." If she said "assign an evade token", similar to the new defender title, that would be a different case.

Can you use Ysanne Issard with damaged sensor array? As she isn't an action we weren't sure. We assumed not as you can't use her when stressed but confirmation would be welcome

Which damage deck?

Original damage deck: Not is she is equipped to a Firespray or Phantom (they have the evade action on their dial)

TFA damage deck: nope.

Things that do not have the Action header always go off when the trigger happens, e.g. "assign a stress token" or something like that.

Action headers can be screwed with by cards, timing, and stress as already pointed out in this thread.

Ysanne Issard states "...you may perform a free evade action" which means if you are stressed or have certain crit cards you cant do it. If she just said "...you may assign an evade token" then it would go off anyway.

Remember, that crit card and Stress says you cant do actions, not limited to Action Phase, flatout actions which means at any point.

Edited by Vineheart01

Similar question of if you have Experimental Interface equipped with Expert Handling. You perform a focus, which then triggers Experimental Interface, which would be the equipped Expert Handling card, and you'd still have your normal Expert Handling to utilize.

Similar question of if you have Experimental Interface equipped with Expert Handling. You perform a focus, which then triggers Experimental Interface, which would be the equipped Expert Handling card, and you'd still have your normal Expert Handling to utilize.

No.

Three reasons:

1: EI leaves you with a stress token. Unless you have a way to clear that stress, you won't be able to take any more actions for any reason until that stress is cleared. (Also note that if you don't have the barrel roll icon in your action bar already, you'll also be taking a stress token for performing the Exp.Handling action, which would leave you with two stress tokens, making the EI/EH combo both prohibitive on a points spent basis, as well as an action efficiency basis. Basically, this is a horrible combination TL/DR: find something better to do with those 6 points).

2: You may NOT perform the same action twice in a turn, regardless if something lets you take an additional action.

3: I can't think of anything that would possibly let you take an action (focus), then take another action (EI which allows you to do a card action and adds one stress), and then lets you take a third action somehow that turn, especially while stressed. The stress(es) are going to prevent further actions. EH takes the EPT slot, so no PTL, even if you could somehow clear that stress.

Similar question of if you have Experimental Interface equipped with Expert Handling. You perform a focus, which then triggers Experimental Interface, which would be the equipped Expert Handling card, and you'd still have your normal Expert Handling to utilize.

No.

Three reasons:

1: EI leaves you with a stress token. Unless you have a way to clear that stress, you won't be able to take any more actions for any reason until that stress is cleared. (Also note that if you don't have the barrel roll icon in your action bar already, you'll also be taking a stress token for performing the Exp.Handling action, which would leave you with two stress tokens, making the EI/EH combo both prohibitive on a points spent basis, as well as an action efficiency basis. Basically, this is a horrible combination TL/DR: find something better to do with those 6 points).

2: You may NOT perform the same action twice in a turn, regardless if something lets you take an additional action.

3: I can't think of anything that would possibly let you take an action (focus), then take another action (EI which allows you to do a card action and adds one stress), and then lets you take a third action somehow that turn, especially while stressed. The stress(es) are going to prevent further actions. EH takes the EPT slot, so no PTL, even if you could somehow clear that stress.

Tycho can do it.

You can potentially get Tycho up to ridiculous numbers of actions per turn with PTL and EI and a second action EPT.

But Tycho is kind of a special case.

PTL TAPs and Jake can both reliably do 3 actions per turn without the assistance of a second ship.

Edited by thespaceinvader

PTL TAPs and Jake can both reliably do 3 actions per turn without the assistance of a second ship.

So can VT-49's with the Dauntless title.

PTL TAPs and Jake can both reliably do 3 actions per turn without the assistance of a second ship.

So can VT-49's with the Dauntless title.

I wouldn't call that reliable, personally.

I mean, anyone with PTL and EI can do 3 actions per turn once, but Jake and TAPs can do it every round as long as they don't bump.

BB8 PTL is another combo that enables it.

I wouldn't call that reliable, personally.

Well true, but it can do it without help. BB8 + PtL lets you do it every turn as you point out.

But... it still doesn't change the fact that you cannot perform the SAME action more than once during a round, free action or otherwise.

^ THAT.

I should have been more clear, or at least stated that the exceptions are rare and almost not worth mentioning, given the context at hand.

But... it still doesn't change the fact that you cannot perform the SAME action more than once during a round, free action or otherwise.

No, but no one was saying you could.

But... it still doesn't change the fact that you cannot perform the SAME action more than once during a round, free action or otherwise.

No, but no one was saying you could.

See post #29 :)

See post #29 :)

I took that as a question, and the "no one" I was thinking of was me and thespaceinader :).

But reading #29 again it does look like a statement not a question so you win this round Parravon, but I'll get you and your little dog too next time...

Mwa ha ha ha....

At the risk of an electronic slap, if I had BB-8 and Expert Handling, I couldn't do both Free Barrel Rolls in the same turn?

Correct.

At the risk of an electronic slap, if I had BB-8 and Expert Handling, I couldn't do both Free Barrel Rolls in the same turn?

Yes, they're both Barrel Roll actions, and you can't do a given action more than once in the same round.

Cool

At the risk of an electronic slap, if I had BB-8 and Expert Handling, I couldn't do both Free Barrel Rolls in the same turn?

The same rule applies to using BB-8 then doing a regular barrel roll action in your Perform Action step.

At the risk of an electronic slap, if I had BB-8 and Expert Handling, I couldn't do both Free Barrel Rolls in the same turn?

The same rule applies to using BB-8 then doing a regular barrel roll action in your Perform Action step.

On the other hand, Whisper can decloak using the Barrel Roll version of decloaking and then still perform a Barrel Roll in the Perform Action step, because the barrel roll during decloaking is not an action.

On the other hand, Whisper can decloak using the Barrel Roll version of decloaking and then still perform a Barrel Roll in the Perform Action step, because the barrel roll during decloaking is not an action.

Because it is NOT "barrel rolling" but using the part of spending a Cloak token that produces a BR like effect.

Decloaking is not a free Barrel Roll or Boost Action with different, and limited, template choices but just uses those things as shortcuts to describe how decloaking is going to work.

On the other hand, Whisper can decloak using the Barrel Roll version of decloaking and then still perform a Barrel Roll in the Perform Action step, because the barrel roll during decloaking is not an action.

Because it is NOT "barrel rolling" but using the part of spending a Cloak token that produces a BR like effect.

Decloaking is not a free Barrel Roll or Boost Action with different, and limited, template choices but just uses those things as shortcuts to describe how decloaking is going to work.

isaction.

On the other hand, Whisper can decloak using the Barrel Roll version of decloaking and then still perform a Barrel Roll in the Perform Action step, because the barrel roll during decloaking is not an action.

Because it is NOT "barrel rolling" but using the part of spending a Cloak token that produces a BR like effect.

Decloaking is not a free Barrel Roll or Boost Action with different, and limited, template choices but just uses those things as shortcuts to describe how decloaking is going to work.

We (the general "we", not me and Steven0 specifically) have been around and around on this bit of semantic fluff, but at the risk of relitigating it here: the barrel roll that you perform as part of a decloak is "Barrel Rolling", just as much so as taking a Barrel Roll action. It's just not an action. Decloak and suffering the effect of a Tractor Beam token are the only ways I know of that a ship can perform a Barrel Roll without taking a Barrel Roll action, but they're all still Barrel Rolls.

If we want to go around on this I'd simply say there is a difference between a Barrel Roll and a barrel roll. I'd consider the capitalized version to be talking about the Action while the lowercase version is just describing the effect. When you Barrel Roll you barrel roll but while you could not do two Barrel Rolls in the same round you may have situations where you barrel roll several times.

Just an example of a case where having the same words describe two closely related, but still different, things can potentially lead to much confusion. For X-Wing I may consider this something like the "hit" issue when attacks are made as a 'hit' on a die doesn't mean a "hit" on the ship as far as the game is concerned nor does getting a "hit" on a ship alway require any kind of 'hit' from an attack die.

It's worth noting that the rules (almost) never actually refer to the dice symbols as hits and crits. They just use the image of the symbols.

(I think there may be one or two exceptions, as well)

Whereas they do say 'do a barrel roll or boost using the 2 straight template' to describe decloaking. I'd concur with the distinction that it's decloaking not being an action that keeps it from interfering with the ability to BR as an action, not it not being a barrel roll.

Not that it's really a meaningful distinction.