1. Grisban has to test awareness (1).

2. He failes.

3. Raythen uses his HA to let that hero reroll that test and let him use his own awareness (5).

4. Hero passed.

5. OL plays Befuddle.

Should Grisban test (1) or (5)?

Since Rythen's ability reads "(...)He may use your attribute value instead for the reroll." I'd only allow Raythen's attribute value to be used for the reroll triggered by his ability and not for any other reroll.

Also Befuddle reads: "after a hero passes an attribute test", which IMHO reinforces the fact that the previous roll (or in this case reroll) has completely resolved and abilities affecting that roll (even if it were any other buff or debuff) wouldn't apply anymore.

(Except if there was some kind of ability affecting multiple rolls ... for example by stating to affect all atrribute tests until the end of the turn or something like that)

Would say the same as Shimaaji, but maybe an official answer would be necessary. Since It may differ from purely logical

I cannot give a certain answer, but I remember a similar issue with Wicked Laughter and rerolls. Some of this cards create a new roll and some not. I don't know if this covered on a general way somewhere.

I cannot give a certain answer, but I remember a similar issue with Wicked Laughter and rerolls. Some of this cards create a new roll and some not. I don't know if this covered on a general way somewhere.

You're correct, and befuddle does not create a "new roll". My inclination would be the test is against 5, but the fact that Raythen's ability specifies "for the reroll" is tricky. Official question to FFG for sure.

I cannot give a certain answer, but I remember a similar issue with Wicked Laughter and rerolls. Some of this cards create a new roll and some not. I don't know if this covered on a general way somewhere.

You're correct, and befuddle does not create a "new roll". My inclination would be the test is against 5, but the fact that Raythen's ability specifies "for the reroll" is tricky. Official question to FFG for sure.

Befuddle does not "create a new roll"? Okay, I guess in that case it's indeed far less straight-forward than it appeared to me when I wrote my earlier post in this thread.

Could you point me to some place where I could find out more about that? The "after a hero passes..."-part made it look like the exact opposite to me and I assumed it would be a new roll. :/

It's somewhere in the unofficial FAQ, I believe (I don't think it's mentioned in the official FAQ, but I could be wrong). Essentially, the initial roll is a "rolling dice" trigger- the rerolls are not new "rolling dice" triggers, but might still be "pass" or "fail" triggers.

Here's a rules response I got awhile back, for example:

Rules Question:
I'm sorry in advance for the technicality of these questions: Can attribute test reroll abilities be played in response to others? For example: 1) Can an OL play befuddle after a hero passes a test, then the hero play lucky charm? Would the reroll still have +1?

2)Can a hero fail a test, play lucky charm, and THEN the OL play befuddle ? (Assuming he hadn't already played a befuddle this test.)

3) Does "Wicked Laughter" function any differently (from a trigger standpoint) from befuddle since it says "take the test again" and not "reroll"?

4) Could the OL play Wicked Laughter, and then subsequently play befuddle if the hero passes the second time? Would his attribute still be one lower? Thank you.

Answer:

Yes, attribute test rerolls can be played in response to other, through Overlord card still cannot be played on the same trigger. Going in order:

1) Yes, the overlord could play Befuddle , then the hero could play Lucky Charm. The reroll would still have +1, since it is the same roll being rerolled.
2) Yes, a hero can fail a test, use Lucky Charm, and then the Overlord may play Befuddle (assuming he or she hasn’t already played a Befuddle this test).
3) Wicked Laughter does function different from Befuddle . It does, in fact, create a fresh test since it's not a reroll (creating a new overlord card trigger).
4. The Overlord could play Wicked Laughter, then Befuddle . Yes, the attribute would still be one lower since you are rerolling the Wicked Laughter test, not creating a new test.

Thanks for playing,
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer

Ah, I think I got it now.

So basically we have to separate whether we are talking about

1) a re-roll: different roll, but still the same test and thus all effects affecting that test persist

or

2) a new test: Where effects affecting the first test (and obviously effects affecting a single (re)roll within the first test as well) are no longer in effect

I think, however, that the key point in the answer to your "old" rule question with regard to the situation discussed in this thread is that "Wicked laughter" states that the attribute modification affects the entire new test triggered by the card (including all re-rolls triggered inside of it) whereas Raythen's Hero ability states: "He may use your attribute value instead for the reroll."

Thus, IMHO, he could only use Raythen's value if Raythen's ability was written as "He may use your attribute value instead for the test.", which unfortunately (?) isn't the case.

EDIT: And thanks for digging that up! I should read the unofficial FAQ more carefully.

Thanks for the discussion. As Zaltyre suggested I asked FFG and will post answer here as soon as it's answered.

Q:

1. Grisban has to test awareness (1). 2. He failes. 3. Raythen uses his HA to let that hero reroll that test and let him use his own awareness (5). 4. Hero passed. 5. OL plays Befuddle. Should Grisban test (1) or (5)?

A:

Grisban should test 5, as it is still the same test and Grisban is now allowed to use Raythen’s awareness for his reroll.