I am very interested to see how Vessery does in terms of top lists. There's not doubt that he will be strong and smash lists and players that just aren't prepared, but there are a couple different ways to beat him and he has some very key vulnerabilities.

As already pointed out, a Ruthlessness/TIED Vessery is scary but he's at PS 6, so he really wants to run with Vader or Omega Leader as fellow aces since they tend not to want to keep a TL. Ruthlessness can also be exploited by a crafty opponent.

Vessery also isn't a very good endgame ship. His ability is turned off and he doesn't have many benefits to help fight other, much better closers. LW mitigates that but then he's vulnerable to the host of PS 8 that we see and if he is PS 8 himself, his only bonus is the title you've chosen, which is effective but I don't think will challenge games you don't want to see in the endgame (Horn, Fel, Dash, etc..)

That of course is the fun of the games being played out. Does the opponent try to take out Vessery first or take out support ships to turn off his ability anyway?

I think that it's one of the better (or luckier designs) that the best pilot ability for defenders is on one of the mid PS pilots and not the highest.

Oh you don't run ruthlessness vessery with other aces you run him with AC advanced or TAP's, the advanced offer highly accurate fire and an evade action every turn and TAP's turn better and offer AT.

That works, too, but I was more pointing out the weakness of a PS 6 Vessery.

I am very interested to see how Vessery does in terms of top lists. There's not doubt that he will be strong and smash lists and players that just aren't prepared, but there are a couple different ways to beat him and he has some very key vulnerabilities.

As already pointed out, a Ruthlessness/TIED Vessery is scary but he's at PS 6, so he really wants to run with Vader or Omega Leader as fellow aces since they tend not to want to keep a TL. Ruthlessness can also be exploited by a crafty opponent.

Vessery also isn't a very good endgame ship. His ability is turned off and he doesn't have many benefits to help fight other, much better closers. LW mitigates that but then he's vulnerable to the host of PS 8 that we see and if he is PS 8 himself, his only bonus is the title you've chosen, which is effective but I don't think will challenge games you don't want to see in the endgame (Horn, Fel, Dash, etc..)

That of course is the fun of the games being played out. Does the opponent try to take out Vessery first or take out support ships to turn off his ability anyway.

He's a terrible endgame ship, but I don't see that as a big problem because he's going to be such a threat. If you engage him first, you're playing into your opponent's list design (where, presumably, something else is designed to be the closer). If you refuse to engage him and chase the rest of the list first, you're giving him time to keep tearing you up.

I mean, take this:

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Tractor Beam (1)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

The Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Realistically, who do you shoot first? The Inquisitor has a pretty good dial, access to both boost and barrel roll, access to evade tokens via the title, Autothrusters, and help from Palpatine. He can defend himself quite effectively if he can maintain range, and he can also run if he needs to. The shuttle is a big target, but it's one you have to grind down for sure (and you don't really want Vessery and the Inquisitor landing multiple TL+focus shots on you while you do it).

I think the same can be said for most Palp Aces list. Is this anymore damaging or threatening than Whisper/Omega, for example? I'm not sure. It's certainly a bigger investment in health, which will benefit it against some lists, but it lacks the positional advantages and the pair of endgame ships that most Palpatine+2 ace lists have. Again, I'm not saying it will be strong but I think Vessery comes with some clear drawbacks that will keep him from dominating based just on his jousting numbers.

Guess you are relying on Vess to really maul other ships before the endgame scenario where you might end up being out positioned by soontir and the like. Maybe a slight pro to taking Vader with Vess .

Just to be clear, I'm talking relative strengths when I discuss end-game Vessery, as in end game Vessery compared to another Defender with Predator. Even with VI, Vessery isn't a joke in the end game. The defense provided by the x7 title or the control and offense provided by the D title combined woth the white K-turn will make him a rough customer in his own right, it just won't be as good as a differently outfitted Defender.

If only we knew when we'd get our hands on this set. Every time I read these Defender threads I WANT to field the titles against tournament opponents. I mean, it's all well and good to proxy it with friends. But to really go for the throat against multiple different lists is what I crave.

That's why I like using a 50% free TL rate for Vessery when calculating his numbers, as the baseline for "realistic" performance that you will likely get out of him. You might be able to line up a spotter 100% of the time in a few games, but overall performance won't be that high.

However, even getting a free target lock 50% of the time, he's still reasonably efficient with the x7 title.

• Juke+x7 ~100%
• VI + x7 ~93%
• VI + TIE/D + TB ~88% (assuming one additional follow-on shot for the tractor beam)
• VI + TIE/D + Ion ~85%

With VI + the TIE/D title you really need to work that cannon and K-turn to earn the points back. With tractor beam you can directly use the affect (boost/barrel roll onto a rock anyone?), or just pile on more shots onto the beamed target.

The Ion Cannon efficiency is getting low enough I'm not sure how reliable that build will be. It's hard to baseline how much added value there is there, as Ion Control has never been good enough empirically to generate a baseline, let alone one on a ship with a white 4K.

A comparison just for kicks:

• Ruthlessness + TIE/D + TB is worth (best case) about 50 points in raw dice. It costs 39 points and has a white K turn. That's 128% efficient before derating for PS6. Nifty.

Thanks for the math!

I think with jukes or ruthlessness, this presentation of data might not be best. A lot of it is VERY situational/synergy dependent and I can see a juking vessery with carnor turning 90% of jukes into damage in one game... and failing to get any of them in another, in a different squad. Likewise, I've had some experience with Tractor Ruthless Vessery and his impact was really hit and miss, in about half the games he did scary amounts of damage (like putting a stresshog on a rock, shooting it up and getting 2x"indirect" damage into poe on the first pass), in the other half (like versus 2 decimators, or versus aces) he was probably as annoying to me as to my opponent.

I know it's difficult to calculate, but I think it might be better to show brackets (i.e. something like Juke Vessery 80%-120% percent efficient, depending on jukes) than an average. This is more honest, and it also helps steer people towards thinking of how to get the most of their abilities. And gives you a worst case scenario (like what happens when TB ruthless vessery meets 2 decimators).

I wonder if Rayd +PTL +x7 + Tie mk 2 makes Soontir close to obsolete.

They are similar in many ways: cost, access to 3 actions per turn, get stressed, attack the same, both are formidable on defense... However, while Soontir has stealth device+autothrusters over a bare 3 hitpoints, Ryad's slightly less protected 6 hitpoints means she is more consistent. Autodamage, bad luck or bumping won't kill her quickly. Especially bumping, since the evade token is guaranteed. Also, Ryad is better offensively since she'll probably TL most turns.

In terms of manouverability, Soontir can boost and roll, but his 2 greens are fairly predictable. Ryad's dial is mostly green, and might be the easiest ship to fly so far. The green k-turns and the ability to chose facings means she might not be dodging as much, but will usually have several good movement options and little difficulty getting enemies in her sights.

Is Soontir's PS9 a big enough advantage to offset that?

I think the fact that Soontir has PS9 and the Boost/Barrel Roll combo makes him different enough that Ryad won't push him out in a major way. I actually like them together a lot. I think their strengths compliment each other, and their flying is so different that some ships will have a lot of trouble with Soontir while others will have a lot of trouble with Ryad.

Stock Fel = 35

Ryad, PTL, Engine Upgrade, x7 = 39

26 points leaves room for Omega Leader, a couple of Academy Pilots as blockers, or some variant of a Lambda. Lots of decent Imperial options there.

The funny thing is that Soontir killed Ryad in the EU...

This is the first squad I want to try after release. It may not be a true PalpAces, but it's bound to be fun.

Palpatine's Defenders (100)

Omicron Group Pilot (32) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Reinforced Deflectors (3), Emperor Palpatine (8), Emperor Palpatine (8)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

That's the rub, right? You need the spotter, and you need the spotter to not waste its action by spotting for Vessery, and you need that to happen most of the time. Take the Inquisitor/Vessery/Omega Leader list that has popped up a few times in this thread. What if you're facing an Omega Leader/Whipser list that won the Initiative bid? Whisper + Omega Leader might smoke the Inquisitor before he and your Omega Leader even gets to take a Target Lock Action, so Vessery is throwing basic dice and has spent his EPT on a largely useless PS8. Even next turn, your Omega Leader can lock Whisper, but maybe Vessery can't get arc, and the enemy Omega Leader Locks Vessery, making his ability moot. Vessery could easily end up being dead weight in this matchup.

That's why I like using a 50% free TL rate for Vessery when calculating his numbers, as the baseline for "realistic" performance that you will likely get out of him. You might be able to line up a spotter 100% of the time in a few games, but overall performance won't be that high.

However, even getting a free target lock 50% of the time, he's still reasonably efficient with the x7 title.

• Juke+x7 ~100%
• VI + x7 ~93%
• VI + TIE/D + TB ~88% (assuming one additional follow-on shot for the tractor beam)
• VI + TIE/D + Ion ~85%

With VI + the TIE/D title you really need to work that cannon and K-turn to earn the points back. With tractor beam you can directly use the affect (boost/barrel roll onto a rock anyone?), or just pile on more shots onto the beamed target.

The Ion Cannon efficiency is getting low enough I'm not sure how reliable that build will be. It's hard to baseline how much added value there is there, as Ion Control has never been good enough empirically to generate a baseline, let alone one on a ship with a white 4K.

A comparison just for kicks:

• Ruthlessness + TIE/D + TB is worth (best case) about 50 points in raw dice. It costs 39 points and has a white K turn. That's 128% efficient before derating for PS6. Nifty.

What I'm saying is that these numbers are extremely matchup dependent, probably more so than your numbers for normal squads. More so than most comparisons, I'd expect, because a strong PS9+ or PS8 (winning the initiative bid) element vs a Vessery/Inquisitor combo is the difference between the Inquisitor marking a target for Vessery, getting his own Target Lock, and gaining an Evade on the first exchange not getting that until the second turn. It's the difference between 3 extra actions or so on the first exchange, and potentially not having it ever. The Inquisitor is only strong defensively at Range 3 and/or he gets a Target Lock. If you've got a heavy hitter that can engage him at Range 1 or 2 where he's only got a Focus for defense, you have the major advantage for a couple of turns, which is the time when you need Vessery to be kicking ass the most.

I know it's difficult to calculate, but I think it might be better to show brackets (i.e. something like Juke Vessery 80%-120% percent efficient, depending on jukes) than an average. This is more honest, and it also helps steer people towards thinking of how to get the most of their abilities. And gives you a worst case scenario (like what happens when TB ruthless vessery meets 2 decimators).

Yeah, I have a lot more data than that executive summary, but I have stopped publishing all the results.

Juke in particular is an interesting case, because those numbers only look at the Juke's direct effect: in other words, it is treated as doing nothing if the target has a focus token. In reality, forcing the focus spend decreases the opponent's overall action economy. This is actually a pure dice-modification that falls under the umbrella of jousting value, it's just rather complicated to do so.

What I'm saying is that these numbers are extremely matchup dependent, probably more so than your numbers for normal squads. More so than most comparisons, I'd expect, because a strong PS9+ or PS8 (winning the initiative bid) element vs a Vessery/Inquisitor combo is the difference between the Inquisitor marking a target for Vessery, getting his own Target Lock, and gaining an Evade on the first exchange not getting that until the second turn. It's the difference between 3 extra actions or so on the first exchange, and potentially not having it ever. The Inquisitor is only strong defensively at Range 3 and/or he gets a Target Lock. If you've got a heavy hitter that can engage him at Range 1 or 2 where he's only got a Focus for defense, you have the major advantage for a couple of turns, which is the time when you need Vessery to be kicking ass the most.

Yeah, the high-level analysis that I return has always had the disclaimer that the results can and will be different depending on the matchups.

As a general statement, my scripts need some updating for the new meta anyway. Most of the targets modeled in the current iteration are generics, but today the overwhelming majority of ships are aces, with a different action economy. And that's before trying to consider Palp.

But it's still very useful to get a reasonable estimate on where the ship will fall. Because of the Square Law, it's mathematically impossible to be wildly off in initial estimations, even using different meta assumptions, or a blender of a variety of squad matchups.

It would be interesting if the Vessery/Inquisitor (or Vessery/Omega Leader) combo proved strong enough to push PS back to 9. It seems to be happy at an 8, right now thanks to OL and Inquisitor. Whisper, Fel, and Vader look especially strong against this combo. Honestly, Poe and Wedge and Wes look pretty solid, too.

That's the rub, right? You need the spotter, and you need the spotter to not waste its action by spotting for Vessery, and you need that to happen most of the time. Take the Inquisitor/Vessery/Omega Leader list that has popped up a few times in this thread. What if you're facing an Omega Leader/Whipser list that won the Initiative bid? Whisper + Omega Leader might smoke the Inquisitor before he and your Omega Leader even gets to take a Target Lock Action, so Vessery is throwing basic dice and has spent his EPT on a largely useless PS8. Even next turn, your Omega Leader can lock Whisper, but maybe Vessery can't get arc, and the enemy Omega Leader Locks Vessery, making his ability moot. Vessery could easily end up being dead weight in this matchup.

That's why I like using a 50% free TL rate for Vessery when calculating his numbers, as the baseline for "realistic" performance that you will likely get out of him. You might be able to line up a spotter 100% of the time in a few games, but overall performance won't be that high.

However, even getting a free target lock 50% of the time, he's still reasonably efficient with the x7 title.

• Juke+x7 ~100%
• VI + x7 ~93%
• VI + TIE/D + TB ~88% (assuming one additional follow-on shot for the tractor beam)
• VI + TIE/D + Ion ~85%

With VI + the TIE/D title you really need to work that cannon and K-turn to earn the points back. With tractor beam you can directly use the affect (boost/barrel roll onto a rock anyone?), or just pile on more shots onto the beamed target.

The Ion Cannon efficiency is getting low enough I'm not sure how reliable that build will be. It's hard to baseline how much added value there is there, as Ion Control has never been good enough empirically to generate a baseline, let alone one on a ship with a white 4K.

A comparison just for kicks:

• Ruthlessness + TIE/D + TB is worth (best case) about 50 points in raw dice. It costs 39 points and has a white K turn. That's 128% efficient before derating for PS6. Nifty.

What I'm saying is that these numbers are extremely matchup dependent, probably more so than your numbers for normal squads. More so than most comparisons, I'd expect, because a strong PS9+ or PS8 (winning the initiative bid) element vs a Vessery/Inquisitor combo is the difference between the Inquisitor marking a target for Vessery, getting his own Target Lock, and gaining an Evade on the first exchange not getting that until the second turn. It's the difference between 3 extra actions or so on the first exchange, and potentially not having it ever. The Inquisitor is only strong defensively at Range 3 and/or he gets a Target Lock. If you've got a heavy hitter that can engage him at Range 1 or 2 where he's only got a Focus for defense, you have the major advantage for a couple of turns, which is the time when you need Vessery to be kicking ass the most.

This is a much better and clearer explanation of what I was getting at above. I wouldn't be surprised if Vessery is a ship that pushes the PS bid back up to 9s where we're seeing a lot of 8s right now.

Edit: Ninja'd.

This is the first squad I want to try after release. It may not be a true PalpAces, but it's bound to be fun.

Palpatine's Defenders (100)

Omicron Group Pilot (32) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Reinforced Deflectors (3), Emperor Palpatine (8), Emperor Palpatine (8)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Why would you put VI on a glaive? You can take adaptability Maarek for the same cost and get a free ability out of it. The poor glaive is just a point too expensive for what it is.

I know it's difficult to calculate, but I think it might be better to show brackets (i.e. something like Juke Vessery 80%-120% percent efficient, depending on jukes) than an average. This is more honest, and it also helps steer people towards thinking of how to get the most of their abilities. And gives you a worst case scenario (like what happens when TB ruthless vessery meets 2 decimators).

Yeah, I have a lot more data than that executive summary, but I have stopped publishing all the results.

Juke in particular is an interesting case, because those numbers only look at the Juke's direct effect: in other words, it is treated as doing nothing if the target has a focus token. In reality, forcing the focus spend decreases the opponent's overall action economy. This is actually a pure dice-modification that falls under the umbrella of jousting value, it's just rather complicated to do so.

What I'm saying is that these numbers are extremely matchup dependent, probably more so than your numbers for normal squads. More so than most comparisons, I'd expect, because a strong PS9+ or PS8 (winning the initiative bid) element vs a Vessery/Inquisitor combo is the difference between the Inquisitor marking a target for Vessery, getting his own Target Lock, and gaining an Evade on the first exchange not getting that until the second turn. It's the difference between 3 extra actions or so on the first exchange, and potentially not having it ever. The Inquisitor is only strong defensively at Range 3 and/or he gets a Target Lock. If you've got a heavy hitter that can engage him at Range 1 or 2 where he's only got a Focus for defense, you have the major advantage for a couple of turns, which is the time when you need Vessery to be kicking ass the most.

Yeah, the high-level analysis that I return has always had the disclaimer that the results can and will be different depending on the matchups.

As a general statement, my scripts need some updating for the new meta anyway. Most of the targets modeled in the current iteration are generics, but today the overwhelming majority of ships are aces, with a different action economy. And that's before trying to consider Palp.

But it's still very useful to get a reasonable estimate on where the ship will fall. Because of the Square Law, it's mathematically impossible to be wildly off in initial estimations, even using different meta assumptions, or a blender of a variety of squad matchups.

At the risk of derailing the thread, this is one area where simulations have an advantage. It's fairly straightforward to say "hey, let's force Blue Team's ship to spend focus against the first attack made by Red Team each round" and characterize the results both in terms of the action economy and in the impact on average damage.

This is the first squad I want to try after release. It may not be a true PalpAces, but it's bound to be fun.

Palpatine's Defenders (100)

Omicron Group Pilot (32) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Reinforced Deflectors (3), Emperor Palpatine (8), Emperor Palpatine (8)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Why would you put VI on a glaive? You can take adaptability Maarek for the same cost and get a free ability out of it. The poor glaive is just a point too expensive for what it is.

Has anyone played with the TIE Shuttle Scimitars? Been thinking about a list like this:

Vessery+Marksmanship+Ion Cannon+TIE/D+Mk2 engines

3x Scimitar Squadron+TIE Shuttle+Tactician+Intel Agent

99pts, gets you a bid against brobots I guess

You get 3 intel agent tactician blockers that take target locks, you know where your opponent is going for Vessery, and you get double marksmanship double TL Vessery shots.

Could also run Outmaneuver or Ruthlessness.

It's an interesting idea but what happens if Vessery get shot down fast by a higher PS? Then you are flying a bunch of moving vans armed with pea shooters. Not a happy thought. Particularly if your opponent doesn't care about Stress.

It's an interesting idea but what happens if Vessery get shot down fast by a higher PS? Then you are flying a bunch of moving vans armed with pea shooters. Not a happy thought. Particularly if your opponent doesn't care about Stress.

I very much enjoy the visual of TIE shuttles being Moving Vans. My personal name for the list will be Vessery's Furniture Delivery Service.

The list admittedly relies a lot on your ability to block with the shuttles, but 24 health is a lot to chew through, and if you can keep Vessery alive via action denial/Ion Cannon I think it'll be okay.

Has anyone played with the TIE Shuttle Scimitars? Been thinking about a list like this:

Vessery+Marksmanship+Ion Cannon+TIE/D+Mk2 engines

3x Scimitar Squadron+TIE Shuttle+Tactician+Intel Agent

99pts, gets you a bid against brobots I guess

You get 3 intel agent tactician blockers that take target locks, you know where your opponent is going for Vessery, and you get double marksmanship double TL Vessery shots.

Could also run Outmaneuver or Ruthlessness.

Title Option 2: TIE/D

EPTs: Everything I said about EPTs for x7 is applicable to the TIE/D title, except the bar set by Predator is even higher, because it’s modifying two attacks each turn instead of just one. Lone Wolf remains the EPT of choice for the defensive bonus it also gives, but only if you’re going to reliably activate it, which can be hard for a lot of squads.

Great analysis! As for EPT:s on the Tie/D (especially with ion cannon) crack shot has a very nice synergy imho. One of the strengths of crack shot is that it forces your opponent to overspend defensively, and with the Tie/D title, the opponent must overspend twice.

I played a game a few days ago and had standard 35 pts turtled up Soontir in range of Vess (cs, ion, Tie/d) and Ryad (ptl, x7, boost). After vess had fired, Soontir was still as unburnt as Daenerys - but at the cost of palp, 2xfocus and the evade. Ryad rolled well enoguh and Soontir died.

As stated repeatedly in this thread, the hardest matchup for the new defenders will probably be aces. And against such opponents it is my opinion that a single crackshot on a tie/d ion defender can turn the tables, at least a bit.

Has anyone played with the TIE Shuttle Scimitars? Been thinking about a list like this:

Vessery+Marksmanship+Ion Cannon+TIE/D+Mk2 engines

3x Scimitar Squadron+TIE Shuttle+Tactician+Intel Agent

99pts, gets you a bid against brobots I guess

You get 3 intel agent tactician blockers that take target locks, you know where your opponent is going for Vessery, and you get double marksmanship double TL Vessery shots.

Could also run Outmaneuver or Ruthlessness.

I think three of them is overkill. You could replace 2 of them with something scary like Whisper which I think would make for a stronger squad. Whisper and Vessery give you two ships that have great damage output . Whisper also gives you a solid closer. The tactician, intel bomber stays a nice support ship even after one of your named pilots gets shot down.

I'm not a huge fan of Marksmanship on Vessery and would probably swap it out for something else. I'd like to get Kallus, Intel Agent or Tactician onto Whisper so I'd probably switch Marksmanship out for Lone Wolf and drop the Mk. II Engines if I needed to.

Colonel Vessery (35)

Marksmanship (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Tactician (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm a huge Whisper fan but I like the whole 42 point Whisper build with Recon Specialist best. I'm also wary of playing her and Vessery, the lack of an actual target lock hurts, but if I was to play that I'd probably just run a TIE Shuttle with the Intel Agent and no tactician, play Lone Wolf, VI, or Crackshot on Vessery to get Kallus or Recon Spec with a bid.

With Soontir around, you need to have the PS bid to make sure Soontir moves first.

I could see moving down to one moving van and freeing up 39 points for something saucy but there aren't a lot of great options in that point range (or half that point range) that synergize with Vessery well.

Vessery's targetlock kick comes from the scimitar pilot. Thats a TIE bomber, they can targetlock.

If Whisper was giving Vessery the targetlock, wow what a waste.

Has anyone played with the TIE Shuttle Scimitars? Been thinking about a list like this:

Vessery+Marksmanship+Ion Cannon+TIE/D+Mk2 engines

3x Scimitar Squadron+TIE Shuttle+Tactician+Intel Agent

99pts, gets you a bid against brobots I guess

You get 3 intel agent tactician blockers that take target locks, you know where your opponent is going for Vessery, and you get double marksmanship double TL Vessery shots.

Could also run Outmaneuver or Ruthlessness.

I think three of them is overkill. You could replace 2 of them with something scary like Whisper which I think would make for a stronger squad. Whisper and Vessery give you two ships that have great damage output . Whisper also gives you a solid closer. The tactician, intel bomber stays a nice support ship even after one of your named pilots gets shot down.

I'm not a huge fan of Marksmanship on Vessery and would probably swap it out for something else. I'd like to get Kallus, Intel Agent or Tactician onto Whisper so I'd probably switch Marksmanship out for Lone Wolf and drop the Mk. II Engines if I needed to.

Colonel Vessery (35)

Marksmanship (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Tactician (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm a huge Whisper fan but I like the whole 42 point Whisper build with Recon Specialist best. I'm also wary of playing her and Vessery, the lack of an actual target lock hurts, but if I was to play that I'd probably just run a TIE Shuttle with the Intel Agent and no tactician, play Lone Wolf, VI, or Crackshot on Vessery to get Kallus or Recon Spec with a bid.

With Soontir around, you need to have the PS bid to make sure Soontir moves first.

I could see moving down to one moving van and freeing up 39 points for something saucy but there aren't a lot of great options in that point range (or half that point range) that synergize with Vessery well.

Countess Ryad, PTL, x7, Engine Upgrade is 39 points, pretty saucy, likes to Target Lock, and fires after a PS6 Vessery.

Vessery's targetlock kick comes from the scimitar pilot. Thats a TIE bomber, they can targetlock.

If Whisper was giving Vessery the targetlock, wow what a waste.

Whisper can support Vessery pretty well with FCS. She gets a free lock after firing at PS9, setting up Vessery from the first turn of combat.

Fantastic read as per usual Bio, well done.

Vessery's targetlock kick comes from the scimitar pilot. Thats a TIE bomber, they can targetlock.

If Whisper was giving Vessery the targetlock, wow what a waste.

What? Whisper is going to leave a target-lock on everything she doesn't destroy after firing on it. She works great with Vessery if they can focus fire on the same target.

Has anyone played with the TIE Shuttle Scimitars? Been thinking about a list like this:

Vessery+Marksmanship+Ion Cannon+TIE/D+Mk2 engines

3x Scimitar Squadron+TIE Shuttle+Tactician+Intel Agent

99pts, gets you a bid against brobots I guess

You get 3 intel agent tactician blockers that take target locks, you know where your opponent is going for Vessery, and you get double marksmanship double TL Vessery shots.

Could also run Outmaneuver or Ruthlessness.

I think three of them is overkill. You could replace 2 of them with something scary like Whisper which I think would make for a stronger squad. Whisper and Vessery give you two ships that have great damage output . Whisper also gives you a solid closer. The tactician, intel bomber stays a nice support ship even after one of your named pilots gets shot down.

I'm not a huge fan of Marksmanship on Vessery and would probably swap it out for something else. I'd like to get Kallus, Intel Agent or Tactician onto Whisper so I'd probably switch Marksmanship out for Lone Wolf and drop the Mk. II Engines if I needed to.

Colonel Vessery (35)

Marksmanship (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Tactician (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm a huge Whisper fan but I like the whole 42 point Whisper build with Recon Specialist best. I'm also wary of playing her and Vessery, the lack of an actual target lock hurts, but if I was to play that I'd probably just run a TIE Shuttle with the Intel Agent and no tactician, play Lone Wolf, VI, or Crackshot on Vessery to get Kallus or Recon Spec with a bid.

With Soontir around, you need to have the PS bid to make sure Soontir moves first.

I could see moving down to one moving van and freeing up 39 points for something saucy but there aren't a lot of great options in that point range (or half that point range) that synergize with Vessery well.

Countess Ryad, PTL, x7, Engine Upgrade is 39 points, pretty saucy, likes to Target Lock, and fires after a PS6 Vessery.

Vessery's targetlock kick comes from the scimitar pilot. Thats a TIE bomber, they can targetlock.

If Whisper was giving Vessery the targetlock, wow what a waste.

Whisper can support Vessery pretty well with FCS. She gets a free lock after firing at PS9, setting up Vessery from the first turn of combat.

Ryad, yes. I wasn't considering double Defender for some reason.

If you can manage to always be shooting the same target with Whisper+Vessery (or just have the Scimitar give Vessery the lock) would probably be often enough to work well.