But Vessery is so much easier to build around now that the TIE/FO and Advanced Prototype exists. Even the X1 title is an amazing boost.

Yeah we even have tie bombers as an option either as a support shuttle or true ordnance boat.

At 21 points the AC advanced shouldn't be overlooked either.

But Vessery is so much easier to build around now that the TIE/FO and Advanced Prototype exists. Even the X1 title is an amazing boost.

It's true. You can easily whip up a few combos. Like this 100 point triple PS8 squad:

• Vessery + VI + TIE/D + TB + Hull
• Inquisitor + PtL + Proton Rockets + title + AT
• Omega Leader + Comm Relay + Juke

You want to shoot Vessery first, but that leaves Omega Leader for last, and gives Inquisitor a chance to drop Prockets in with TL+F. If you want a point for an initiative bid, then swap TB + Hull for Ion Cannon on Vessery.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists post-Veterans.

Personally, I'm exploring cost-efficient ways to build Vessery and Palpatine into the same list, although it's hard to squeeze another major threats in without dropping from TIE/D to TIE/x7.

The Inquisitor is going to be really, really tough to pass up.

Yeah, the Inquisitor is still a king of cost efficiency. But so is Vessery, so that's why I'm thinking we will see a lot of VI Vessery. And Palp is still the best upgrade card... so that gives us something like this as a baseline:

97 points

• Vessery + VI + TIE/D + Tractor Beam
• Inquisitor + PtL + title + AT
• OGP + Palp

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists post-Veterans.

Personally, I'm exploring cost-efficient ways to build Vessery and Palpatine into the same list, although it's hard to squeeze another major threats in without dropping from TIE/D to TIE/x7.

...and I'm quite happy about how hard it is to add Palpatine into the list. Maybe we can have an Imperial list that is good and doesn't include the Emperor for once? It would be nice to have options.

Eh, it is actually fairly easy.

Personally, there are just so many fun things I want to try once Veterans releases. Not even necessarily with the new titles.

Imagine how nasty Defenders, specifically Vessery, would be if the TIE/D card worked on missiles.

Proton Rockets. At range1, roll 5 dice. Get targetlock for rerolls if needed. Immediately after since it costs less than 3pts fire main gun for 4 more dice and another targetlock.

sadly the title says cannons lol. I thought of this immediately when i saw the title, then i saw the restriction and went "well...probably a good thing" LOL

But Vessery is so much easier to build around now that the TIE/FO and Advanced Prototype exists. Even the X1 title is an amazing boost.

It's true. You can easily whip up a few combos. Like this 100 point triple PS8 squad:

• Vessery + VI + TIE/D + TB + Hull
• Inquisitor + PtL + Proton Rockets + title + AT
• Omega Leader + Comm Relay + Juke

You want to shoot Vessery first, but that leaves Omega Leader for last, and gives Inquisitor a chance to drop Prockets in with TL+F. If you want a point for an initiative bid, then swap TB + Hull for Ion Cannon on Vessery.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists post-Veterans.

Personally, I'm exploring cost-efficient ways to build Vessery and Palpatine into the same list, although it's hard to squeeze another major threats in without dropping from TIE/D to TIE/x7.

The Inquisitor is going to be really, really tough to pass up.

Yeah, the Inquisitor is still a king of cost efficiency. But so is Vessery, so that's why I'm thinking we will see a lot of VI Vessery. And Palp is still the best upgrade card... so that gives us something like this as a baseline:

97 points

• Vessery + VI + TIE/D + Tractor Beam
• Inquisitor + PtL + title + AT
• OGP + Palp

That's exactly where I keep ending up. The problem is you want Vessery to shoot before his spotters, which means either trying to keep it under PS6 or gluing VI to Vessery instead of exploring the long list of attractive EPTs.

I've been playing around a lot with this list:

Vessery/VI/D/Tractor Beam

Rexlar Brath/Juke/x7

Omega Leader/Juke/Comm Relay

As a team, they all have incredible synergy. Vessery benefits a lot from the boost to PS8, where he can hang with the Imperial A-Holes and lead things off for Rexlar and Omega. The double-tap helps you burn off tokens. Omega Leader serves as a Target Lock spotter, benefits from both the extra threat of Vessery and the -1 agility from the Tractor Beam, and helps burn off any remaining shields. That frees Rexlar to fire a Juked attack at a reduced agility target, hopefully saving his focus to deal maximum crits.

But Vessery is so much easier to build around now that the TIE/FO and Advanced Prototype exists. Even the X1 title is an amazing boost.

It's true. You can easily whip up a few combos. Like this 100 point triple PS8 squad:

• Vessery + VI + TIE/D + TB + Hull
• Inquisitor + PtL + Proton Rockets + title + AT
• Omega Leader + Comm Relay + Juke

You want to shoot Vessery first, but that leaves Omega Leader for last, and gives Inquisitor a chance to drop Prockets in with TL+F. If you want a point for an initiative bid, then swap TB + Hull for Ion Cannon on Vessery.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists post-Veterans.

Personally, I'm exploring cost-efficient ways to build Vessery and Palpatine into the same list, although it's hard to squeeze another major threats in without dropping from TIE/D to TIE/x7.

The Inquisitor is going to be really, really tough to pass up.

Yeah, the Inquisitor is still a king of cost efficiency. But so is Vessery, so that's why I'm thinking we will see a lot of VI Vessery. And Palp is still the best upgrade card... so that gives us something like this as a baseline:

97 points

• Vessery + VI + TIE/D + Tractor Beam
• Inquisitor + PtL + title + AT
• OGP + Palp

That's exactly where I keep ending up. The problem is you want Vessery to shoot before his spotters, which means either trying to keep it under PS6 or gluing VI to Vessery instead of exploring the long list of attractive EPTs.

Well, the Advanced works well with that dilemma. VI Vader instead of Inquisitor (though, not a fan without EU).

i tried doing a Tie Adv with vessery since they dont want to spend their TLs anyway.

Vessery (42)

Ruthlessness

Ion Cannon

Twin Engine Mk2

TIE/D

Storm Sqd Pilot (24)

TIE/x1

Adv Tgt Computer

Maarek Stele (34)

Ruthlessness

Hull Upgrade

TIE/x1

Adv Tgt Computer

Total: 100

Tried to put Vader or Juno in there but they cost too much. I either had to leave the EPT or the Mod off, neither i felt like doing.

Two Storm Sqd Pilots ended up at odd points, so i added in Maarek so i had another EPT and a pilot skill to abuse.

Could probably put Vader instead if i did the TIE/x7 title on Vessery but i still feel like he should have the TIE/D. Both attacks will have a targetlock...thats mean lol

edit: with vader

Vessery (37)

Ruthlessness

TIEmk2

TIEx7

Storm Sqd Pilot (27)

Hull Upgrade

TIEx1

Adv Tgt Computer

Vader (36)

Ruthlessness

Hull Upgrade

TIEx1

AdvTgt Computer

Total 100

just feels wrong not having tie/d on vessery....

Vader+EU is far less cost efficient than The Inquisitor, so unfortunately Vader is now essentially the nuclear PS9+ bid. If you want good (cost effective) ships you stay away from Vader. If you really want PS9 or higher though, Fel and Vader [edit: or Whisper (thanks Panic)] are your only choice.

Vader+EU is far less cost efficient than The Inquisitor, so unfortunately Vader is now essentially the nuclear PS9+ bid. If you want good (cost effective) ships you stay away from Vader. If you really want PS9 or higher though, Fel and Vader are your only choice.

or whisper

What I love the most about these options is that they give me even more reasons to never have to bother with Fel. He's the Cowboys and Notre Dame of X-Wing. Everyone says you should love him and always bring him. So I really hate him. I'd rather bring anything else. Now I don't ever have to worry that my predjudice is costing me a chance to win.

Well.... It probably still is, but I don't care!

Hey, if you don't want to run the most fun pilot in the game it's fine by me. You know what, why don't you just go all in and jump over to the scum and scummier.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists.

I'm not sure it goes this far. The thing with Vessery is that he's amazing when everything is lined up on a target, and conditions are optimal. When his spotter doesn't have a Target Lock, or wants to engage a different target because of dial differences, he's not as effective. Those times when he's not as effective, when your formation is broken and you need to pull some wild moves to stay in a tough game, those are the times Vessery works least. It's a similar situation to the old Howlrunner Swarm. When it works, it's amazing, but it probably has the most trouble when you need it most. It's one of the reasons I like Lone Wolf on him. It's also the reason I like Predator on someone not Vessery. Predator is always active, no conditions to fulfill. It's more expensive than Vessery and/or won't have the cool EPT that Vessery can carry, but it always works, and it works when you need it the most.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists.

I'm not sure it goes this far. The thing with Vessery is that he's amazing when everything is lined up on a target, and conditions are optimal. When his spotter doesn't have a Target Lock, or wants to engage a different target because of dial differences, he's not as effective.

This is why in the list I mentioned earlier I actually prefer double predator Glaives. Vessery is great but easily turns parasitic, especially in a list which would give him only 1 spotter a decent amount of the time. Palp shuttle likes to get in and get dirty but it doesn't always have the luxury or ability to lock something useful and Vessery with only 1 spotter seems potentially anemic. Double predator Glaives give a uniformity which is nice, each just focuses on being the best value they can be and don't have to worry about supporting each other other than aligning arcs on targets.

Vessery really needs TIE advanced with ATC, TAPs or TIE/FOs with Juke and Comms relay to shine. Even then he's just a 6 hp white elephant. A fun one to play, esp with ruthlessness, but a fragile white elephant nonetheless.

Vessery really needs TIE advanced with ATC, TAPs or TIE/FOs with Juke and Comms relay to shine. Even then he's just a 6 hp white elephant. A fun one to play, esp with ruthlessness, but a fragile white elephant nonetheless.

Play him as bait, especially with Lone Wolf.

Though I like to play Tie Defenders aggressively, playing Vessery aggressively, especially with Tie/D and upgrades makes me balk at excessive risk taking.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists.

I'm not sure it goes this far. The thing with Vessery is that he's amazing when everything is lined up on a target, and conditions are optimal. When his spotter doesn't have a Target Lock, or wants to engage a different target because of dial differences, he's not as effective.

This is why in the list I mentioned earlier I actually prefer double predator Glaives. Vessery is great but easily turns parasitic, especially in a list which would give him only 1 spotter a decent amount of the time. Palp shuttle likes to get in and get dirty but it doesn't always have the luxury or ability to lock something useful and Vessery with only 1 spotter seems potentially anemic. Double predator Glaives give a uniformity which is nice, each just focuses on being the best value they can be and don't have to worry about supporting each other other than aligning arcs on targets.

Yeah, I like this list too, for the reasons you state.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists.

I'm not sure it goes this far. The thing with Vessery is that he's amazing when everything is lined up on a target, and conditions are optimal. When his spotter doesn't have a Target Lock, or wants to engage a different target because of dial differences, he's not as effective. Those times when he's not as effective, when your formation is broken and you need to pull some wild moves to stay in a tough game, those are the times Vessery works least. It's a similar situation to the old Howlrunner Swarm. When it works, it's amazing, but it probably has the most trouble when you need it most. It's one of the reasons I like Lone Wolf on him. It's also the reason I like Predator on someone not Vessery. Predator is always active, no conditions to fulfill. It's more expensive than Vessery and/or won't have the cool EPT that Vessery can carry, but it always works, and it works when you need it the most.

The problem--or maybe "problem"--is that a full target lock is always better than Predator, and most of the time it's a lot better. There are diminishing returns to rerolling each die after the first, but since the marginal cost of buying Vessery instead of Glaive + Predator is low (sometimes 0), it's hard for me to ignore him as long as the other ships in the list can spot for him.

I'm perfectly willing to concede how strong Predator is, though.

Vessery really needs TIE advanced with ATC, TAPs or TIE/FOs with Juke and Comms relay to shine. Even then he's just a 6 hp white elephant. A fun one to play, esp with ruthlessness, but a fragile white elephant nonetheless.

Yes, he has "just" 6 hit points, half of them shields, behind 3 Agility, and he has top-tier action economy--right up there with Vader and Fel. And his build is actually more flexible than either of those. If you want to play an aggressive control game, you give him TIE/D and a Tractor Beam or Ion Cannon. If you're afraid he'll be a glass cannon, you give him the x7 title and turtle up every round behind focus + evade while your free target locks do the offensive work for you.

The question to ask is whether he'll be the best Imperial pilot going forward, or "just" another Tier 1 ace.

i dont like Lone Wolf.

For 1pt more you get Predator, which is the same effect without the restriction and potentially stronger if their PS is really bad.

Range2 bubble is pretty hard to avoid and still get a shot off unless your opponent split up.

i dont like Lone Wolf.

For 1pt more you get Predator, which is the same effect without the restriction and potentially stronger if their PS is really bad.

Range2 bubble is pretty hard to avoid and still get a shot off unless your opponent split up.

I understand the issues with LW, but LW also acts defensively. That's it's benefit. Better with fewer ships, of course.

When it works, it's amazing, but it probably has the most trouble when you need it most. It's one of the reasons I like Lone Wolf on him. It's also the reason I like Predator on someone not Vessery. Predator is always active, no conditions to fulfill.

Predator on Vessery's spotter also let them just hang on to the Target Lock instead of needing to reacquire it for him each round. I'm not very mathey but my gut tells me that Predator+Focus on 3-4 dice is stronger than Target Lock on the same number of dice.

Found another "hilarity happens" build.

Captain Jonus (22)
Expert Handling (2)
Tactician (2)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Experimental Interface (3)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
Ion Cannon (3)
TIE/D (0)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
Ion Cannon (3)
TIE/D (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Having Captian Jonus "nopenopenope" away off Isard's evade (clearing target locks, setting up range 2 tactition shots on aces, dodging arcs) is amusing to me, but it's also 2 greens with focus+evade every round, while buffing the Delta's ion cannons.

Rule #1 of Defenders, if you don't have Vessery in your squad over some other Defender, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, I think this is very close to being Rule #1 of all Imperial lists.

I'm not sure it goes this far. The thing with Vessery is that he's amazing when everything is lined up on a target, and conditions are optimal. When his spotter doesn't have a Target Lock, or wants to engage a different target because of dial differences, he's not as effective. Those times when he's not as effective, when your formation is broken and you need to pull some wild moves to stay in a tough game, those are the times Vessery works least. It's a similar situation to the old Howlrunner Swarm. When it works, it's amazing, but it probably has the most trouble when you need it most. It's one of the reasons I like Lone Wolf on him. It's also the reason I like Predator on someone not Vessery. Predator is always active, no conditions to fulfill. It's more expensive than Vessery and/or won't have the cool EPT that Vessery can carry, but it always works, and it works when you need it the most.

The problem--or maybe "problem"--is that a full target lock is always better than Predator, and most of the time it's a lot better. There are diminishing returns to rerolling each die after the first, but since the marginal cost of buying Vessery instead of Glaive + Predator is low (sometimes 0), it's hard for me to ignore him as long as the other ships in the list can spot for him.

I'm perfectly willing to concede how strong Predator is, though.

That's the rub, right? You need the spotter, and you need the spotter to not waste its action by spotting for Vessery, and you need that to happen most of the time. Take the Inquisitor/Vessery/Omega Leader list that has popped up a few times in this thread. What if you're facing an Omega Leader/Whipser list that won the Initiative bid? Whisper + Omega Leader might smoke the Inquisitor before he and your Omega Leader even gets to take a Target Lock Action, so Vessery is throwing basic dice and has spent his EPT on a largely useless PS8. Even next turn, your Omega Leader can lock Whisper, but maybe Vessery can't get arc, and the enemy Omega Leader Locks Vessery, making his ability moot. Vessery could easily end up being dead weight in this matchup.

When it works, it's amazing, but it probably has the most trouble when you need it most. It's one of the reasons I like Lone Wolf on him. It's also the reason I like Predator on someone not Vessery. Predator is always active, no conditions to fulfill.

Predator on Vessery's spotter also let them just hang on to the Target Lock instead of needing to reacquire it for him each round. I'm not very mathey but my gut tells me that Predator+Focus on 3-4 dice is stronger than Target Lock on the same number of dice.

This is my experience, but that only really kicks in when you've got one big ship for Vessery to chew on for a while. That's great in the Fat Turret meta, but that's a less common than it used to be.