Better than all 3 with juke? probably not. But interesting nontheless. In theory this drastically improves their lifespan, but it slightly hurts offense and flying freedom.

You can't fit 3 glaives (or ryad) with juke. They come out to 34 points each with x7 and juke.

True, but you can give her Adaptability. Then you have the points, and everyone gets to move together!

I'm increasingly tempted to throw a VI Stele into a list with the Palpmobile and, I dunno, maybe Soontir or something.

The bid to PS9 is more helpful when it's simultaneous with another ace (if nothing else, it gives nothing away ), and with Palp on the table Stele has less pressure on crit generation. Also an interesting position to be in if you end up going one-on-one in the endgame with him, because you force the opponent to once again play the "Am I K-turning this turn like you expect, or 1-banking like you fear" games all over again...

"Am I K-turning this turn like you expect, or 1-banking like you fear" games all over again...

My very favoritest game evar. ^___^

The recent regional tournament results analysis on Nova Squadron Radio suggested that Crackswarm was the strongest of the major competitive archetypes. Ryad is really solid against Crackswarm. She has just enough PS, a good bit of hit points to absorb some Crack Shots, and is much harder for the swarm to block.

Time to break out the Ruthlessness/D Defenders....

The recent regional tournament results analysis on Nova Squadron Radio suggested that Crackswarm was the strongest of the major competitive archetypes. Ryad is really solid against Crackswarm. She has just enough PS, a good bit of hit points to absorb some Crack Shots, and is much harder for the swarm to block.

Time to break out the Ruthlessness/D Defenders....

You joke but I've seen what /D vessery does with it first hand, poes ability doesn't protect him much when he can't evade the damage I loved it my mate not so much.

Tell me which is better at positioning. A PS 8 ship with a 2 point initiative bid, or a PS 5 one that can choose between a k turn and a straight at PS 5 before every Acewing in the game?

I can actually think of many instances where I'd like to get that k-turn completed without being blocked (or perhaps a better way to phrase it would be "completing the kiogran turn at relatively low PS). Even though for her, the block isn't normally all that devastating since she can repeat it constantly and even shed stress while doing so. For instance, if you're using the k-turn to stop just shy of an asteroid. Completing that turn is important because it means you're not pointing at the asteroid going into a) the combat round where tractor beams are a thing and b) the next maneuver phase, where you can safely go the other direction.

In fact, in the coming meta of double tapping tractor-bastards, having an asteroid directly behind you is literally the only safe place it can be.

This is EXACTLY my point. I actually prefer moving Ryad first because she can K-turn at any speed as opposed to just one speed. Nearly all ships in this game have to move forward, so landing right in front of them with your back to them before they move is one of the best places you can possibly be.

Because Ryad's K-turn is so flexible, it's advantageous to do it before other ships move. You A) know exactly where you are going to end up with no fear of being blocked and B) get your action.

So if you're my opponent, what exactly are you going to do if I land Ryad directly in front of you facing away? You have to move forward and almost no ship can move out of range with one move in that position (advanced SLAM being the exception), and boost or barrel aren't going to get you out of arc either most likely. And even if they do, you're using your actions to run as opposed to being offensive, a trade I'll take every single time. Her ability to chose K-turn vs straight as she reveals her movement dial is almost of no value, but when you pair her ability with a 1-point Mk II engines and /x7, there isn't a single ship in the game that can keep up with her maneuvering.

Listen, I'm not trying to argue that Vessery isn't an absolute hammer with the new TIE/D title, but dismissing Ryad as obviously inferior is a mistake. Look at the points too. A bare bones Vessery built (TIE/D, ion, crack shot/VI, Mk II) costs 40 points. A really solid and very dangerous Ryad build (TIE/x7, Outmaneuver/Predator, Mk II) costs 36. And those 4 other points can be the difference between a meh 3rd ship or a really dangerous one.

I honestly like using them both. Vessery is going to be the primary target, so it frees Ryad up to flank/get behind the enemy and light them up.

Vessery with VI and x7 is 34 points.

Ryad with PtL, x7, TIE MK II is 36.

You're spending more points for pretty much the same thing at a lower pilot skill. Vessery with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle always triggers his ability so he ends up with 3 actions a turn and no need for PtL.

It's not that Ryad is bad, just not as good as Vessery. If you already have Vessery, then fine use Ryad also. I'd argue that Inquisitor is better than Ryad btw but whatever.

Vessery with VI and x7 is 34 points.

Ryad with PtL, x7, TIE MK II is 36.

You're spending more points for pretty much the same thing at a lower pilot skill. Vessery with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle always triggers his ability so he ends up with 3 actions a turn and no need for PtL.

It's not that Ryad is bad, just not as good as Vessery. If you already have Vessery, then fine use Ryad also. I'd argue that Inquisitor is better than Ryad btw but whatever.

Why would you fly Vessery and not use the TIE/D title? With the /D and an ion cannon, if you have a target lock buddy you're looking at doing an average of 2-3 damage per round since you can reroll both attacks. Using that combo, I've pasted a Z-95 in one shot on multiple occasions, so I don't know why you'd use a VI, x7 build on him. The /D title optimizes his ability SO much more it's not even funny. And if you play Ves as x7 and VI without the Mk II, his *super* predictable. And Ryad is the opposite of that. When you're facing her down and trying to figure out what maneuver to set, she could end up practically anywhere and is incredibly hard to anticipate. And a ship that's hard to anticipate is worth it's weight in gold, since ships that are easy to anticipate get killed fast. It's why I love it when someone pulls out Tyco with rage. Once they pop it, I know they can never K-turn for the rest of the game and it makes him so much easier to kill.

And the Ryad build, Outmaneuver, x7, Mk II, is 36 points vs 30-35 for a decent Inquisitor build. But the Inquisitor is just so fragile. Both can get a free evade token, but Ryad has an infinitely superior movement dial and can take a lot more damage and does the same if not more damage than the Inquisitor. Sure, sniping with the Inquisitor is fun, but I've found that it's really not hard for something like a single A-Wing to chase him down and hassle the crap out of him and make him a LOT less effective. If an A-Wing tries to hassle Ryad as built, it get destroyed in very short order.

I honestly think you're placing WAY too much value on pilot skill for Ryad. I said that I actually like that and use it to my advantage, but in general a Defender is not so worried about firing first as other more fragile ships since it's got solid evade dice and a ton of hit points.

And on a side note, I personally think the Palp card is horribly broken and refuse to play it. The card needs a range limit. I think Imperials can field some devastating ship combos without the ability to change a die result every round.

Vessery with VI and x7 is 34 points.

Ryad with PtL, x7, TIE MK II is 36.

You're spending more points for pretty much the same thing at a lower pilot skill. Vessery with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle always triggers his ability so he ends up with 3 actions a turn and no need for PtL.

It's not that Ryad is bad, just not as good as Vessery. If you already have Vessery, then fine use Ryad also. I'd argue that Inquisitor is better than Ryad btw but whatever.

Why would you fly Vessery and not use the TIE/D title? With the /D and an ion cannon, if you have a target lock buddy you're looking at doing an average of 2-3 damage per round since you can reroll both attacks. Using that combo, I've pasted a Z-95 in one shot on multiple occasions, so I don't know why you'd use a VI, x7 build on him. The /D title optimizes his ability SO much more it's not even funny. And if you play Ves as x7 and VI without the Mk II, his *super* predictable. And Ryad is the opposite of that. When you're facing her down and trying to figure out what maneuver to set, she could end up practically anywhere and is incredibly hard to anticipate. And a ship that's hard to anticipate is worth it's weight in gold, since ships that are easy to anticipate get killed fast. It's why I love it when someone pulls out Tyco with rage. Once they pop it, I know they can never K-turn for the rest of the game and it makes him so much easier to kill.

And the Ryad build, Outmaneuver, x7, Mk II, is 36 points vs 30-35 for a decent Inquisitor build. But the Inquisitor is just so fragile. Both can get a free evade token, but Ryad has an infinitely superior movement dial and can take a lot more damage and does the same if not more damage than the Inquisitor. Sure, sniping with the Inquisitor is fun, but I've found that it's really not hard for something like a single A-Wing to chase him down and hassle the crap out of him and make him a LOT less effective. If an A-Wing tries to hassle Ryad as built, it get destroyed in very short order.

I honestly think you're placing WAY too much value on pilot skill for Ryad. I said that I actually like that and use it to my advantage, but in general a Defender is not so worried about firing first as other more fragile ships since it's got solid evade dice and a ton of hit points.

And on a side note, I personally think the Palp card is horribly broken and refuse to play it. The card needs a range limit. I think Imperials can field some devastating ship combos without the ability to change a die result every round.

Because you don't have the spare 5 points.

Because you want to use Juke for list synergy.

Because you don't want to have a ship with a target the size of '40pts, 6hp, one token' painted on him, and would prefer that he shoots things good without being public enemy number one.

Don't get me wrong, TIE/D Vessery is fantastic. But that does not mean that it is always the best choice, if only because sometimes it's not an available one.

Vessery with VI and x7 is 34 points.

Ryad with PtL, x7, TIE MK II is 36.

You're spending more points for pretty much the same thing at a lower pilot skill. Vessery with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle always triggers his ability so he ends up with 3 actions a turn and no need for PtL.

It's not that Ryad is bad, just not as good as Vessery. If you already have Vessery, then fine use Ryad also. I'd argue that Inquisitor is better than Ryad btw but whatever.

Why would you fly Vessery and not use the TIE/D title? With the /D and an ion cannon, if you have a target lock buddy you're looking at doing an average of 2-3 damage per round since you can reroll both attacks. Using that combo, I've pasted a Z-95 in one shot on multiple occasions, so I don't know why you'd use a VI, x7 build on him. The /D title optimizes his ability SO much more it's not even funny. And if you play Ves as x7 and VI without the Mk II, his *super* predictable. And Ryad is the opposite of that. When you're facing her down and trying to figure out what maneuver to set, she could end up practically anywhere and is incredibly hard to anticipate. And a ship that's hard to anticipate is worth it's weight in gold, since ships that are easy to anticipate get killed fast. It's why I love it when someone pulls out Tyco with rage. Once they pop it, I know they can never K-turn for the rest of the game and it makes him so much easier to kill.

And the Ryad build, Outmaneuver, x7, Mk II, is 36 points vs 30-35 for a decent Inquisitor build. But the Inquisitor is just so fragile. Both can get a free evade token, but Ryad has an infinitely superior movement dial and can take a lot more damage and does the same if not more damage than the Inquisitor. Sure, sniping with the Inquisitor is fun, but I've found that it's really not hard for something like a single A-Wing to chase him down and hassle the crap out of him and make him a LOT less effective. If an A-Wing tries to hassle Ryad as built, it get destroyed in very short order.

I honestly think you're placing WAY too much value on pilot skill for Ryad. I said that I actually like that and use it to my advantage, but in general a Defender is not so worried about firing first as other more fragile ships since it's got solid evade dice and a ton of hit points.

And on a side note, I personally think the Palp card is horribly broken and refuse to play it. The card needs a range limit. I think Imperials can field some devastating ship combos without the ability to change a die result every round.

Because you don't have the spare 5 points.

Because you want to use Juke for list synergy.

Because you don't want to have a ship with a target the size of '40pts, 6hp, one token' painted on him, and would prefer that he shoots things good without being public enemy number one.

Don't get me wrong, TIE/D Vessery is fantastic. But that does not mean that it is always the best choice, if only because sometimes it's not an available one.

Because a focused, evaded, 3/3/3 defensive statline backed by Palpatine is super strong defensively. If I just have invincible ships there is nothing you can really do about it. With Vessery's ability and a focus and Palpatine he's dropping 3/3 and 4/4 hit shots consistently.

Also, I don't think you really understand the power of reactively boosting or barrel rolling and moving after your opponent does so they cannot reactively boost and/or barrel roll against you.

I haven't tested any of the new Vets stuff (I can't bring myself to proxy things and I just can't get into Vassal), but I'm pretty set on flying a PTL X/7 Ryad with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle as soon as the expansion releases. My only dilemma is do I go TIE MKII or Engine on Ryad? With the former, I can get a Sensor Jammer on the shuttle, with the latter I can't but get a 1 point initiative bid (or a Baffle, I guess.) Anyone tried out both versions and have a preference on the Countess?

I haven't tested any of the new Vets stuff (I can't bring myself to proxy things and I just can't get into Vassal), but I'm pretty set on flying a PTL X/7 Ryad with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle as soon as the expansion releases. My only dilemma is do I go TIE MKII or Engine on Ryad? With the former, I can get a Sensor Jammer on the shuttle, with the latter I can't but get a 1 point initiative bid (or a Baffle, I guess.) Anyone tried out both versions and have a preference on the Countess?

31 point Inquisitor, 29 point Palp Shuttle, Vessery with VI, x7, Engine Upgrade. 98 points for an initiative bid against other PS 8 lists.

Vessery gets 3 actions a turn without stress. Green K-Turns are of little use when you can just do a white one and not stress yourself.

Except I don't want to fly Vessery. I understand the argument for him, don't get me wrong - he's super strong. I just want to play with the new shinies for a bit first.

2k and a boost to essentially just pivot in place seems like such a cool thing. ill be `funning` around with it as well.

2k and a boost to essentially just pivot in place seems like such a cool thing. ill be `funning` around with it as well.

It is hella fun, and honestly, I don't think the lack of green clearance is that much of an issue. You can get a shocking amount of work done with only your straights/K-turns with the occasional boost/barrel roll to reset your track. There's going to be turns that you are disengaged where you don't need two actions as well, meaning you can dump your stress and open up the dial some more.

2k and a boost to essentially just pivot in place seems like such a cool thing. ill be `funning` around with it as well.

It is hella fun, and honestly, I don't think the lack of green clearance is that much of an issue. You can get a shocking amount of work done with only your straights/K-turns with the occasional boost/barrel roll to reset your track. There's going to be turns that you are disengaged where you don't need two actions as well, meaning you can dump your stress and open up the dial some more.

So Engine over Tie Mk. 2 then?

For purposes of maximum silliness.... absolutely.

I haven't tested any of the new Vets stuff (I can't bring myself to proxy things and I just can't get into Vassal), but I'm pretty set on flying a PTL X/7 Ryad with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle as soon as the expansion releases. My only dilemma is do I go TIE MKII or Engine on Ryad? With the former, I can get a Sensor Jammer on the shuttle, with the latter I can't but get a 1 point initiative bid (or a Baffle, I guess.) Anyone tried out both versions and have a preference on the Countess?

31 point Inquisitor, 29 point Palp Shuttle, Vessery with VI, x7, Engine Upgrade. 98 points for an initiative bid against other PS 8 lists.

Vessery gets 3 actions a turn without stress. Green K-Turns are of little use when you can just do a white one and not stress yourself.

I know, why would you ever want the ability to shed a stress, get behind someone and focus? And it's less that her K-turns are green (which is awesome), it's more that she can K-turn at so many different speeds. Using the white 4-K on a Defender is fairly predictable. Predictable moves are easy to anticipate, and when you correctly anticipate your opponents moves, you generally beat them.

2k and a boost to essentially just pivot in place seems like such a cool thing. ill be `funning` around with it as well.

It is hella fun, and honestly, I don't think the lack of green clearance is that much of an issue. You can get a shocking amount of work done with only your straights/K-turns with the occasional boost/barrel roll to reset your track. There's going to be turns that you are disengaged where you don't need two actions as well, meaning you can dump your stress and open up the dial some more.

So Engine over Tie Mk. 2 then?

I almost always like putting Mk II on Defenders. It makes you much less predictable and opens up the use of their 1 and 2 hard turns a lot more.

And boosting at PS 5 isn't that big of an advantage since a good number of ships are going to move after you boost.

I haven't tested any of the new Vets stuff (I can't bring myself to proxy things and I just can't get into Vassal), but I'm pretty set on flying a PTL X/7 Ryad with the Inquisitor and a Palp Shuttle as soon as the expansion releases. My only dilemma is do I go TIE MKII or Engine on Ryad? With the former, I can get a Sensor Jammer on the shuttle, with the latter I can't but get a 1 point initiative bid (or a Baffle, I guess.) Anyone tried out both versions and have a preference on the Countess?

31 point Inquisitor, 29 point Palp Shuttle, Vessery with VI, x7, Engine Upgrade. 98 points for an initiative bid against other PS 8 lists.

Vessery gets 3 actions a turn without stress. Green K-Turns are of little use when you can just do a white one and not stress yourself.

I know, why would you ever want the ability to shed a stress, get behind someone and focus? And it's less that her K-turns are green (which is awesome), it's more that she can K-turn at so many different speeds. Using the white 4-K on a Defender is fairly predictable. Predictable moves are easy to anticipate, and when you correctly anticipate your opponents moves, you generally beat them.

1.) Ryad being tied to green maneuvers to clear the stress she generates from PtL is more predictable than Vessery. Also, doing a 2 straight and a 2 k turn ends you in the same spot, and having the choice between 2-5 K-Turns isn't really that hard t account for.

2.) Vessery doesn't rely on PtL to do his 3 actions, which means he never really has to be stressed that often. Which means he gets to do more of his dial than straights/K-Turns and banks more often. Is Ryad doing 3 actions after a 3 hard turn? Yes. What if she wants to do a 3 hard and 3 actions again? Nope.

3.) You move at a higher pilot skill, with boost and a 2 point initiative bid. This makes me less predictable than Ryad against a wider variety of ships.

The problem with Ryad is that you're using PtL in order to get your action economy going. Now you've created this big problem because destressing on a Defender is difficult. You've created this Rube Goldberg situation.

Vessery does his 2 actions on his own, and piggybacks off of other ships that were already target locking anyways, with no stress involved for his third action. You haven't created a problem that needed to be solved with a sub-par solution tacked on.

Before i got the boost card i thought it was the best card ever. I wanted it badly as every list i made i went "**** boost would be nice here" - after getting it...lol now i rarely use it. 4pts is a lot, and most ships that like it need their action for something else so its purely a disengage/reengage thing 9/10 of the time. Ive gone multiple games with it where i used it... once? lol.

Defenders kinda need Mk2 engines though. Their ONLY greens are straight (kturns for ryad too). Stress them, they become insanely predictable because they either sac their action or fly straight. Ryad can get away without them because she can usually still get arc with a kturn anyway.

I think the Ryad/Vessery comparison is kind of like Echo vs Whisper. Whisper is generally better, woth better PS and action economy. Echo lets you do some off the wall movement shenanigans that make her different from every other thing in the game. That makes them a bit harder to directly compare.

I think the Ryad/Vessery comparison is kind of like Echo vs Whisper. Whisper is generally better, woth better PS and action economy. Echo lets you do some off the wall movement shenanigans that make her different from every other thing in the game. That makes them a bit harder to directly compare.

Well, I'm a player who values positioning a LOT, so I almost always go with Echo over Whisper. In the absence of turret insanity, positioning is king.

Also, I don't use PtL on Ryad. Tried it once and didn't really like it, but that's because I don't really like PtL on ships that don't have a boost option. If you focus, a target lock isn't worth the stress IMO. She's the one ship I put Outmaneuver on because it helps her deal with high agility ships like A-Wings and because it's loads easier to get her behind someone. Vessery is great, but my opinion is that if you're going to pay for his ability, then you shouldn't scrimp on points and maximize it. If you try to get economical on an already expensive ship, you're going to end up with a less competitive list. Do you ever see someone fly Soontir without autothrusters and/or stealth device? Not usually, since if you're going to drop 27 points on a ship, you might as well spend the extra 5 point to make him infinitely better. Which is why I give him the TIE/D, because what's better than one shot with a free target lock? Two shots.

I think a non-PTL Ryad is completely reasonable. I like Predator or Lone Wolf reasonably well as a stress-free stand-in for the Target Lock. Outmaneuver seems reasonable as well. They're also a little cheaper as you don't need a modification to support them. The only thing you can't do with them that can be done with PTL is a Barrel Roll+Focus combo, but that need is rare enough. When I've run Ryad with PTL I enjoy, and I think I get a little more out of her with Engine Upgrade instead of Mk2 Engines. It's a bizzare setup, but in it's own weird way it works. I really like the Engine both for in-combat options and pre-combat maneuvering. She's quick with that thing. More points are more points, though.

Yeah i like Echo more than Whisper. Whisper is technically better in terms of raw effect, but the bank on that decloak is crazy. Somehow im able to predict that perfectly every time and my opponents never can. I get range1 shots with Echo a lot more than Whisper.

Truth, Echo dies easier since no free focus to bank on for defense. But her ability allows better flying to avoid that situation to begin with...majority of the time. Few times i run Whisper i usually end up going "yaknow...if i could use a 2bank to decloak i'd have a PERFECT shot right now...." lol