If you don't mind running Deltas and still want a glass cannon that can put out some crits with at least one attack, while laying down some control:

Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) (35)
Marksmanship (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

x7 has plenty of offense if you build for it. Ive been running ptl ryad, juke vessery and a delta, all with x7 plus mk2 engines on the named pilots. Ryad typically has focus/evade/tl every round. Vessery has focus/evade and gets a free tl as long as he shoots at someone who's already locked. The delta has either a focos or a tl. I may not get extra cannon attacks, but the shots I take are extremely accurate.

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

So an OGP with Palpatine

31 point standard Inquisitor

Vessery with x7, VI, Engine Upgrade

98 points, so room for more stuff if you wanted. Seems pretty offensive to me.

I think he fits more into a brawler sub set. High damage, medium health. Can dish it out and take a few, but isn't meant to be the center of attention from the enemy. Much like say a warrior built for damage in WoW, a medium/heavy mech in MechWarrior, or the Soldier class of Team Fortress. I don't feel right ever saying a defender is a glass cannon.

I think he fits more into a brawler sub set. High damage, medium health. Can dish it out and take a few, but isn't meant to be the center of attention from the enemy. Much like say a warrior built for damage in WoW, a medium/heavy mech in MechWarrior, or the Soldier class of Team Fortress. I don't feel right ever saying a defender is a glass cannon.

Don't make up another meaningless buzzword category.

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

I do think it's more satisfying to Ionize someone. Yes, it does more damage, as well. I don't think that the X/7 doesn't do damage, but it sticks around longer. Not so much "go to time", but "not as easily focused down". I know that if I have Col. Vessery on the table vs. some opponents, he gets so much hate that people try to kill him fast. I can see going with X/7 for Col. Vessery just for that factor. Let people try to kill him while the rest of the list punishes you.

I also think that going with a Tie Defender and mini-swarm might be better off with the X/7. If you see an expensive ship and a number of smaller ones, people will start to target the big one first. If you are able to stay alive longer, then you do the same as above.

I find this whole surviving vs killing discussion interesting given how the dice are designed. Attack dice are much more likely to hit than defense dice are likely to evade, so especially if you have a higher pilot skill, a strong offense is often the best defense. After all, you don't have to worry about getting shot at by a ship that's dead (except for 1 ship in the entire game...).

I was fooling around with some builds in the simulator to see how they'd play out. I've tried OL with Ves, TIE/D, ion, Mk II, crackshot with a few combinations to round out the list to see how it would fare against a variety of opponents. That pairing just puts out so much damage per turn and has good maneuvering that it's really hard for any opponent to keep up. If OL throws a target lock on an enemy ship and Vess gets to focus, it was putting out 4 damage a turn against 2 agility ships, sometimes 5 at range 1. At that damage output, who cares if Ves is going to take some hits because he doesn't have an evade? Not me. The only adjustment I made was when I played it against BroBots and switched the ion to a tractor beam (because I hate those 3 green dice on that ship).

I think if you are going with only 3 ships, then damage output is probably better. I like to use mini-swarms and having more ships usually means better damage output. It also means that the prize ship of the list tends to take more fire than you would think.

I think if you are going with only 3 ships, then damage output is probably better. I like to use mini-swarms and having more ships usually means better damage output. It also means that the prize ship of the list tends to take more fire than you would think.

Which is why the new Defenders are so nasty when you put the Mk II on them. With that upgrade, there's very few ships that can keep up with the Defender's maneuvering. They don't have a hard time getting in behind you and staying there. Turrets help defend against that, but turrets are usually slow on the damage output.

I think if you are going with only 3 ships, then damage output is probably better. I like to use mini-swarms and having more ships usually means better damage output. It also means that the prize ship of the list tends to take more fire than you would think.

It's no longer a good idea to have many dice spread out amongst many attacks. You /need/ higher damage, higher quality attacks to bust through Acewings and other defensive garbage.

OK here's one that might be sort of interesting.

Countess Ryad (34)
Intimidation (2)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Predator (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Predator (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Predator (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The one thing in the squad that I'm really not married to is the EPT on Ryad. It was an idea that I had sorta at the last minute while trying to think of which one I wanted to give her, so feel free to swap out whatever you want. But my main idea behind it was that with her, you're going to be k-turning a lot so if your opponent tries to block you, then you discourage that a little bit by reducing the agility of their potential blocker. I'm aware that at PS 5 she's unlikely to face a difficult blocking game, but there's always those swarm and blocker lists. If they're PS 1-2, then the Omegas will have an easier time cleaning them off with their Predator shots on a reduced agility target, freeing up the rest of the squad to take more shots at other ships sooner in the game. Though honestly, the Intimidation trick may work out better on another, higher PS Defender, but people are more likely to get more mileage out of another EPT. It's not so much a 'better' way to fly than just a 'different' one really, but who knows. Maybe I'll try it out on Maarek.

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

This is very much my experience as well. An exception to this might be Ryad. With PTL and her ability, she can generate a lot of hits for a "normal" 3-dice ship. You get a lot of range 1 shots, which let's you slap down a lot of 4-dice hits. I thing she pairs really well with a TIE/D Defender, because the mass alpha squads that cause problems to the TIE/D are particularly vulnerable to her movement shenanigans, as those squads are typically PS4 or less. You also get a blocker in the squad as a third ship.

I'm not settled on a TIE/D build to pair with her yet, but I think there's a good squad there.

I really wouldnt put Intimidation on Ryad. Or any defender for that matter.

That says youre trying to bump with her. Its pretty hard to intentionally bump without a turret and still get a shot on someone else, so you'd be wasting a very expensive ship's dice to let some tie shmucks fire a little better.

I think if you are going with only 3 ships, then damage output is probably better. I like to use mini-swarms and having more ships usually means better damage output. It also means that the prize ship of the list tends to take more fire than you would think.

Mini swarms are useless. There is a reason why Soontir and 5 Obsidians is not good. 60 points of normal ships typically doesn't do as much damage as a RAC or two Acewings.

It's no longer a good idea to have many dice spread out amongst many attacks. You /need/ higher damage, higher quality attacks to bust through Acewings and other defensive garbage.

Mini Swarm doesn't have to empty generics. There are a ton of options these days. First off, what about Black Squadron Crack Shot pilots? They are only 15 pts a pop and can cause some damage on Aces, especially if enough things fire at the same. Besides that, there is Barons of Empire with V1 and Juke. Also Omega Squadron w/ tons of options (Black Shot, Juke, Comm Relay, etc). Tomax Bren w/ Crackshot and nothing else is only 24 pts. There are a ton of other named Tie Fighter pilots that could work, such as: Backstabber, Wampa, Mauler Mithel, and Scourge. Don't forget Zeta Leader, Omega Leader, or Omega Ace w/ various upgrades (like Juke). There are enough cheap options of guys that can cause extra damage beyond just 5 Obsidians.

A cheap Academy is also great to use as a blocker, no matter what your list.

While not a full on mini-swarm, there is this list:

ive been using the Decimator a lot lately and i was pondering a way to make use of one with a defender. The idea of Intimidation and Outmaneuver came to mind...

Captain Oicunn (42)

Intimidation (2)

Seismic Charge (2)

Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Mara Jade (3)

Gunner (5)

Moff Jerjarrod (2)

Countess Ryad (34)

Outmaneuver (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Mk2 Engines (1)

TIE/D (0)

Total: 99

Ryad is probably the only one thats going to pull this off since she has an insanely flexible k-turn, while other defenders wouldnt get outmaneuver unless they managed to get a 4k. If you can pull this off, the target has a -2 agi to roll with.

Normally i dont loadout Oicunn so much but after loading him with the basics and Mara Jade, didnt have enough for a TIE Shmuck so i just gave him gunner/anti lasers/moff (because i ALWAYS draw an early very painful crit).

Heres the funny bit. If you land the ion on a ship that Oicunn is bumped against in his front arc, you can easily get his pilot ability off again AND the APL's. Target is forced to move 1forward, if you move first just do a 1soft into the ship and you wont clear, bam 1 damage. They more 1 forward, cant clear large base, roll a die for possible more damage.

I really hope i can pull that off on someone rofl....

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

This is very much my experience as well. An exception to this might be Ryad. With PTL and her ability, she can generate a lot of hits for a "normal" 3-dice ship. You get a lot of range 1 shots, which let's you slap down a lot of 4-dice hits. I thing she pairs really well with a TIE/D Defender, because the mass alpha squads that cause problems to the TIE/D are particularly vulnerable to her movement shenanigans, as those squads are typically PS4 or less. You also get a blocker in the squad as a third ship.

I'm not settled on a TIE/D build to pair with her yet, but I think there's a good squad there.

I've been testing this squad out:

Total (100)

Colonel Vessery (39) - TIE Defender

Adaptability (0), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0), Hull Upgrade (3)

Countess Ryad (36) - TIE Defender

Push The Limit (3), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (25) - TIE Bomber

Crack Shot (1), Homing Missiles (5), Long-Range Scanners (0)

All PS 5 for flexibility and no shortage of target locks for Vessery. I have tested it a couple of times against U-Boats and have been pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to kill a Contracted Scout before it fires.

Heres the funny bit. If you land the ion on a ship that Oicunn is bumped against in his front arc, you can easily get his pilot ability off again AND the APL's. Target is forced to move 1forward, if you move first just do a 1soft into the ship and you wont clear, bam 1 damage. They more 1 forward, cant clear large base, roll a die for possible more damage.

I really hope i can pull that off on someone rofl....

There was a pretty common combo of Oicunn + Ion Projectors + Palp (+ personal flavor).

As long as you get them to bump you at the correct angle, you have a perma bump/smash thanks to Palp always making sure IP's roll is a success.

After playing several games with various Ion Cannon + TIE/D on Defenders, I can definitely say they are my preferred Defender for most applications. The firepower you gain actually makes their 33-40 pt cost seem worth it. The added bonus of an Ion effect that can potentially win games is icing on the cake.

The TIE/x7 is good, but it never felt like it was winning a game, just surviving the match with a ship that hit averagely hard, but never hard enough when I need it. Though, it could just be that dealing damage (and ions) feels WAY more satisfying than surviving shots. The difference in a timed tournament being you are more likely to table an opponent with a TIE/D Defender, but also more likely to GET tabled. The X7 on the other hand will win matches by waiting until time is called, holding onto its large # of points.

Makes me think half point scoring rules DO need to start applying to small base ships too, since another 30+ pt ship exists that can hold those points.

30+ points is nothing. The probleme was the 55+ points fortress.

Are they here yet? if not they need to hurry up.

Definitely want the Ion Cannon on the /Ds. Because jousting the Fang Fighter isn't something you want to do more than once.

I really wouldnt put Intimidation on Ryad. Or any defender for that matter.

That says youre trying to bump with her. Its pretty hard to intentionally bump without a turret and still get a shot on someone else, so you'd be wasting a very expensive ship's dice to let some tie shmucks fire a little better.

I mean, you're free to have your own opinion, but did you actually read why I put it on there? Because your reply indicates to me that you did not.

Turns out you were wrong, Bio. Sorry.

Turns out you were wrong, Bio. Sorry.

I'm not actually sure he won't be largely correct. I wrote this analysis from the point of view of someone who has played these ships a lot. They're my go-to ship, so I pretty much see upside. From the point of view of someone who runs aces (of various stripes), there will be a different sort of analysis as to what is worth replacing with what. I think everyone can agree that Vessery will be top notch, simply because he's got so much brute force, but all Defenders are going to take a very different mindset than aces, and so it might take more convincing for them to gain traction with playerswith players that are unfamiliar with them.

Also, I've mostly looked at how the meta affects Defenders, with a little bit about which direction the Defenders will push the meta in turn. PGS is discussing magnitude of the change. It's quite possible that we're both right.

Seems like a long winded post on what might happen. I'll just have to see how it plays when it gets here. I'm sure some will be better with the new release than others. I love it when people say that every next release is going to change the meta.. News flash... of course it will, they all do.. if they didn't FFG wouldn't be doing their jobs..