All this talk of inqy v defenders

Ptl title thrusters in (31)

Double x7 juke glaive (68)

Total: 99

Because why have to choose?

Because Carnor Jax in there is better

I'm waiting to juke and jive with Inquisitor, a Juke/x7 Glaive, and Quickdraw.

All this talk of inqy v defenders

Ptl title thrusters in (31)

Double x7 juke glaive (68)

Total: 99

Because why have to choose?

Because Carnor Jax in there is better

That's a 3 health Jax in that point range that needs to be at range 1 rather than 3

I think I'll stick to inqy and the defender's self sufficient badassery

3x Fearless x7 glaive (assuming 0 or 1 points for the ept)

At range 1 in arc you're throwing 4 dice and an autohit (if the read of a half-hidden card is correct) and defensively they have to chew through 3 greens, a focus and evade.

You try to fit the Defender into your understanding. Which is fine. If you are limited to one way to view a ship, go ahead. But just because that is how you think a ship should be run, doesn't make it so. Don't be surprised if other builds do better, because those players understand the ship better. The art of the fish tail is a wonderful thing.

I look forward to seeing how all the defensive power of Palpatine works against the offensive power of Vessery.

And the two are not mutually exclusive in the same squad.

Palpatine is always the right choice.

Aces + Palpatine is performing far better than just Imperial Aces without Palpatine this Regionals, and there is a reason for that. Palpatine remains one of the, if not THE, most cost effective upgrade in the game. The strongest Defender squads post-Vets should generally also have Palpatine.

This is sort of the opposite of a Palp/Aces squad. It's a Palp/Joust/Control squad. I don't know if it's good, but it will hit like a hammer, and take some work to kill.

Onyx Squadron Pilot, TIE/D, Ion Cannon = 35

Onyx Squadron Pilot, TIE/D, Ion Cannon = 35

Is anyone even seeing the Tie Defender on the table ? A young kid played one last Saturday and I'm thinking that it was the first time that I have seen one sense their release.

Well if juke x7 vess is 35 and ptl x7 tiemk2 ryand is 36 you get omicron palp to be a snug fit

3x Fearless x7 glaive (assuming 0 or 1 points for the ept)

At range 1 in arc you're throwing 4 dice and an autohit (if the read of a half-hidden card is correct) and defensively they have to chew through 3 greens, a focus and evade.

Pretty sure Fearless says Scum Only

3x Fearless x7 glaive (assuming 0 or 1 points for the ept)

At range 1 in arc you're throwing 4 dice and an autohit (if the read of a half-hidden card is correct) and defensively they have to chew through 3 greens, a focus and evade.

Pretty sure Fearless says Scum Only

other factions are a bunch of pansies

or maybe it's just the glitterstim

Is anyone even seeing the Tie Defender on the table ? A young kid played one last Saturday and I'm thinking that it was the first time that I have seen one sense their release.

Only every week since it came out.

never seen anybody use it without proxying the titles. In fact i get weird looks when i bring mine lol.

Tbh i'd use them more even w/o the titles if we had a generic with EPT. The lack of EPT is more painful than no pilot skill to me, least as imperials. And when it comes to pilot skills, im not a fan of either Vessery or Brath.

Brath almost never gets his ability off because either the target died, only hit shields, or only damage was already a crit.

Vessery is awesome but requires another ship to work properly. And hes known to be a problem, so he tends to get focused alot lol.

I've seen HLC Vessery run alongside a Phantom with FCS, that's pretty good.

You try to fit the Defender into your understanding. Which is fine. If you are limited to one way to view a ship, go ahead. But just because that is how you think a ship should be run, doesn't make it so. Don't be surprised if other builds do better, because those players understand the ship better. The art of the fish tail is a wonderful thing.

I look forward to seeing how all the defensive power of Palpatine works against the offensive power of Vessery.

And the two are not mutually exclusive in the same squad.

Palpatine is always the right choice.

Aces + Palpatine is performing far better than just Imperial Aces without Palpatine this Regionals, and there is a reason for that. Palpatine remains one of the, if not THE, most cost effective upgrade in the game. The strongest Defender squads post-Vets should generally also have Palpatine.

I'd also like to add to your point that the best Defender pilot is the Inquisitor, with the second best being Vessery.

So the optimal Palp Aces (With a Defender in it) is Inquisitor Vessery Palp Shuttle. I just see no other option. Lower PS (generic) Defenders seems good on paper but they're going to get punished by arc dodging.

Look at quad TLT BTL-A4 Y-Wings. 12 attacks a round! But there is a reason no one flies that.

Turns out you were wrong, Bio. Sorry.

I'm not actually sure he won't be largely correct. I wrote this analysis from the point of view of someone who has played these ships a lot. They're my go-to ship, so I pretty much see upside. From the point of view of someone who runs aces (of various stripes), there will be a different sort of analysis as to what is worth replacing with what. I think everyone can agree that Vessery will be top notch, simply because he's got so much brute force, but all Defenders are going to take a very different mindset than aces, and so it might take more convincing for them to gain traction with playerswith players that are unfamiliar with them.

Also, I've mostly looked at how the meta affects Defenders, with a little bit about which direction the Defenders will push the meta in turn. PGS is discussing magnitude of the change. It's quite possible that we're both right.

I don't really see what the advantage of running a Defender over the Inquisitor or Soontir or any of the other Acewings. Vessery is in, Maarek has some synergy with Palpatine, Ryad with PtL is a lesser Vessery but still in I guess.

I can see Acewing Acewing Defender, or Defender Acewing Palp Shuttle. Triple Defender will be good, but not as good as subbing out one Defender for the Inquisitor. And Defender Defender Inquisitor won't be as good as Palp Aces with Inquisitor and Vessery.

A Juke X7 Glaive is cool and all, but what advantage does it have over the Inquisitor? Pilot skill? Reactive boost and barrel rolls? Autothrusters?

Defenders are less vulnerable to auto-damage, since they can soak more of it. There are also upgrades and abilities that deny full use of token stacks, such as 4-lom and Zuckus.

Ryad has the advantage of being able to do a 5-speed bugout, without spending the next couple of turns doing a k-turn and green maneuver.

White K-turns are good, they just weren't worth the premium being paid before the new titles. You no longer have to sacrifice the rest of your list to include a couple of Defenders. I've said it before, the big winners here are the Delta and the Onyx, Glaives aren't worth the cost until a 1 point Imperial-only EPT that mimic's Vessery's ability gets released, and even then I would take Ryad first.

There is something Ryad or any Defender cannot do, that Push the Limit TAPS and Interceptors can do: after being ionized, perform Focus + Evade(V1).

But the Defender is capable of performing a K-turn and ending up with an evade and focus. So there's that.

Also, why not this:

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

Nyuk-nyuk!

Turns out you were wrong, Bio. Sorry.

I'm not actually sure he won't be largely correct. I wrote this analysis from the point of view of someone who has played these ships a lot. They're my go-to ship, so I pretty much see upside. From the point of view of someone who runs aces (of various stripes), there will be a different sort of analysis as to what is worth replacing with what. I think everyone can agree that Vessery will be top notch, simply because he's got so much brute force, but all Defenders are going to take a very different mindset than aces, and so it might take more convincing for them to gain traction with playerswith players that are unfamiliar with them.

Also, I've mostly looked at how the meta affects Defenders, with a little bit about which direction the Defenders will push the meta in turn. PGS is discussing magnitude of the change. It's quite possible that we're both right.

I don't really see what the advantage of running a Defender over the Inquisitor or Soontir or any of the other Acewings. Vessery is in, Maarek has some synergy with Palpatine, Ryad with PtL is a lesser Vessery but still in I guess.

I can see Acewing Acewing Defender, or Defender Acewing Palp Shuttle. Triple Defender will be good, but not as good as subbing out one Defender for the Inquisitor. And Defender Defender Inquisitor won't be as good as Palp Aces with Inquisitor and Vessery.

A Juke X7 Glaive is cool and all, but what advantage does it have over the Inquisitor? Pilot skill? Reactive boost and barrel rolls? Autothrusters?

Defenders are less vulnerable to auto-damage, since they can soak more of it. There are also upgrades and abilities that deny full use of token stacks, such as 4-lom and Zuckus.

Ryad has the advantage of being able to do a 5-speed bugout, without spending the next couple of turns doing a k-turn and green maneuver.

White K-turns are good, they just weren't worth the premium being paid before the new titles. You no longer have to sacrifice the rest of your list to include a couple of Defenders. I've said it before, the big winners here are the Delta and the Onyx, Glaives aren't worth the cost until a 1 point Imperial-only EPT that mimic's Vessery's ability gets released, and even then I would take Ryad first.

There is something Ryad or any Defender cannot do, that Push the Limit TAPS and Interceptors can do: after being ionized, perform Focus + Evade(V1).

But the Defender is capable of performing a K-turn and ending up with an evade and focus. So there's that.

Also, why not this:

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

Nyuk-nyuk!

I'm with you, I think pairing Deltas with other generics could be fun and very effective. I'd go more the control route though, leaning towards:

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Hull Upgrade (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Hull Upgrade (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Tactician (2)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Tactician (2)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 100

I'd also like to add to your point that the best Defender pilot is the Inquisitor...

Fixed that for you... that tends to happen when your jousting efficiency is 110% - 115% relative to a wave 5 meta and you also have access to boost/BR, and if you only take 1 you can still get TL+E.

So the optimal Palp Aces (With a Defender in it) is Inquisitor Vessery Palp Shuttle. I just see no other option. Lower PS (generic) Defenders seems good on paper but they're going to get punished by arc dodging.

Maybe. The problem is that Vessery now costs 38 points and is still only worth about 32 PS independent points in dice. Even accounting for his PS8 in the JV he's only got a jousting efficiency of around 94%. Omega Leader by the same metric is around 100%, and Omega Leader's numbers will be slightly higher when I finish getting around to MathWing v3.0 (for reasons).

Look at quad TLT BTL-A4 Y-Wings. 12 attacks a round! But there is a reason no one flies that.

It's also got a mediocre jousting efficiency: 92%, which is basically the same as a B-wing (91%).

I'd also like to add to your point that the best Defender pilot is the Inquisitor...

Fixed that for you... that tends to happen when your jousting efficiency is 110% - 115% relative to a wave 5 meta and you also have access to boost/BR, and if you only take 1 you can still get TL+E.

So the optimal Palp Aces (With a Defender in it) is Inquisitor Vessery Palp Shuttle. I just see no other option. Lower PS (generic) Defenders seems good on paper but they're going to get punished by arc dodging.

Maybe. The problem is that Vessery now costs 38 points and is still only worth about 32 PS independent points in dice. Even accounting for his PS8 in the JV he's only got a jousting efficiency of around 94%. Omega Leader by the same metric is around 100%, and Omega Leader's numbers will be slightly higher when I finish getting around to MathWing v3.0 (for reasons).

Look at quad TLT BTL-A4 Y-Wings. 12 attacks a round! But there is a reason no one flies that.

It's also got a mediocre jousting efficiency: 92%, which is basically the same as a B-wing (91%).

Huh, I would have thought that Vessery's ability would boost his efficiency much higher. I still Think Vessery with Engine Upgrade makes up for it. Palp Aces also tends to have a little wiggle room points wise, so I don't think a few percentage points of inefficiency matter that much. I suppose it denies you Inquisitor Palp Shuttle Pmega Leader Wampa, but I'm not sold on that squad. Wampa dies immediately every time.

Also, Omega leader is hard to kill but if attacked by more than one ship he's vulnerable. Do your numbers take that into account? With my Brobots I never have trouble killing him, he doesn't have Autothrusters so even if he has me locked I feel I can just hope to luck out and get a 3/4 hit shot in naturally and hit.

Well if juke x7 vess is 35 and ptl x7 tiemk2 ryand is 36 you get omicron palp to be a snug fit

Have tried it. Love it. Ryad is an amazing TL buddy for Juke Vessery. Palp is just Palp. You pretty much have to kill him before the Defenders because they have so much health and token stacking that they will just not die while Palp is on the board. "Defend the Emperor" will be a thing my friends.

only problem is you need two imp vet boxes to run it

you can't have palp without two royal guard defenders

Is anyone even seeing the Tie Defender on the table ? A young kid played one last Saturday and I'm thinking that it was the first time that I have seen one sense their release.

Only every week since it came out.

Well if juke x7 vess is 35 and ptl x7 tiemk2 ryand is 36 you get omicron palp to be a snug fit

Have tried it. Love it. Ryad is an amazing TL buddy for Juke Vessery. Palp is just Palp. You pretty much have to kill him before the Defenders because they have so much health and token stacking that they will just not die while Palp is on the board. "Defend the Emperor" will be a thing my friends.

This is the exact list that I play with. I am yet to lose a game with it.

only problem is you need two imp vet boxes to run it

you can't have palp without two royal guard defenders

That's a problem?

Is anyone even seeing the Tie Defender on the table ? A young kid played one last Saturday and I'm thinking that it was the first time that I have seen one sense their release.

Only every week since it came out.

Glad to hear it. Where I play people tend to favor Rebel. I'm one of the few imperial players. The Defender just seemed to predictable but that may just be the players here

eh

the Defender's one of those "well, what ya gonna do about it?" ships

people love to go on about how predictable the white 4k is, but they never mention how little blocking keeps them from just doing it again next turn, or how a pair of modified ion cannons from behind just won't ever go away until you're dead or both the table

it got to the point playing against aggressors ages ago (two flechette deltas with soontir, poor naive fickle still tried to fly interceptors) where the opponent called the white 4k and all I could do was shrug because stressed aggressors aren't exactly a huge threat to the defenders behind them

not to mention if theyre blocking a 4k they arent blocking a 2fwd. More often than not anyway.

Ive done that a few times. PS3 guy flies right where a 4k would be and my opponent gloats "So how about that 4k?" and i reveal a 2fwd, ending a fraction of an inch from his base and blast him at range1 lol.

Or, completely disengaged that ship and went after another one. Its easier to predict the counter to an expected move than anything else. I use the 4k enough to make people think i still gun for that 4k, then they go "wait wat!?" when i veer off instead.

I do unpredictable/suicidal stuff all the time lol. Blasted an Awing through a rock at speed5 to catch someone on the other side of it at range1 out of their arc. Took damage, lost my PTL actions, but i blew him the hell up so worth it rofl