So, when you decide to play a droid who uses a lightsaber and you want to take a Specialization that has those Talents, you are making a conscious choice to take those penalties.

Yeah and I look at those spec trees and see that FORCE SKILL trait I have to stop any further progress because I can't use it and cannot take it. That is the penalties.

So are saying .... just waste your character points...buy a thing you will never use and continue on picking other skills.

Seems I am the only one seeing the logic to this. And Insisting on wasting character points is rather insulting to a player, its saying I have to pay vastly more for a thing when the rules clearly stat that the price and make no grounds for making it cost more.

Have you noticed that in Force and Destiny, Droids aren't listed as a playable species? This is intentional. As I said, if you are making the conscious choice to play a droid who uses a lightsaber and wants to take a lightsaber Specialization that has Force Talents, then you are making a deliberate choice to 'waste' experience on non-usable Talents.

That is not a flaw in design - it is deliberate for the lore of the setting.

I am only taking traits from the spec down the line until I cannot move onward down the connected lines because a Force Talent is the next required step in the chain.

That is the choice I am making, I am not wasting ANY points in doing this. I am sticking to the limitations of playing a droid by not buying force talents since I cannot have a force talent.

But your telling me waste points in buying something I would not benefit from.

Yes, I know why droids where not a character option in the F&D Book. They cannot use the force so nearly everything in that book they would not get much use out of. And Hey that what I am doing, I am not spending the same number of points a organic force being would pay to get all the talents and their benefits and yet only be able to make use of a handful.

1) Remember when Yoda and Dooku were getting ready to duel. Dooku says something about "apparently this fight will not be won with our knowledge of the Force." Being Force sensitive is one thing, and knowing how to use the Force is another. According to the rules, you could learn how to perform a Force talent (by buying it from your talent tree) without actually being able to do it. If you ended up discovering you were Force sensitive later on (by purchasing either of the trees from EoE or AoR) then you'd be able to put your knowledge to use. The same way that some Jedi and Sith in the lore have had their Force sensitivity taken away. They don't "forget" how they did those things. They don't get extra XP back. They just can't use it anymore.

2) Anyone who chooses a talent tree, for the express purpose of some talent further down the path, with no intention of using something above it... is someone spending XP "for no reason." They have to buy their way down the path, same as everyone else, whether they plan on using those talents later or not.

3) Nothing about Lightsabers is Force related. Yes, there's some fluff about Force attunement to the crystal. But the game mechanics don't really "require" that for someone to use a Lightsaber. So it's 100% possible for a droid to craft and wield a Lightsaber without any Force sensitivity. They can even learn the martial arts skills of wielding such a weapon. The only thing they can't do is the Force related tricks, such as using precognition to know where a Blaster bolt will strike, and putting the blade in the way ahead of time. Everything else Jedi do is just a martial art.

In regards to the spirit of the game and fair play, it's also a rule that if you've previously purchased a non ranked Talent and it appears in another Talent tree you're progressing through you need not spend the points buying it again to move past it.

The devs also freely state any rule that gets in the way of fun should be ignored, so this funk you've worked yourself into is wholly self imposed.

Here's the thing... If your GM is happy with you using Melee Talents with a Lightsaber, why bother learning (spending the xp on) Lightsaber Forms that have Talents that require the Force?

Skip the whole thing, and stick with the regular Melee focused specializations... You won't be able to reflect blaster bolts, but you'll have access to Talents that they wouldn't have anyway... which even makes sense from a narrative perspective, as your character focuses on other aspects of the weapon.

No muss, no fuss...

It's not against the spirit of the game when one of the developers has stated you can buy it and continue on. In fact, with that logic, you're actually FURTHER penalizing yourself.

So where do I find this of which you speak please?

And also please explain to me how WASTING POINTS ON TRAITS I CANNOT USE is a good thing for my character?

And extra rank of parry is not worth 50 points + its own cost. Buying force rating? Oh that is going to be so helpful.

I accepted that there would be limits to what a droid can do or how far they might be able to progress in certain things because they would not be able to use the force or access the force.

I was under the impression that you needed to have a force rating to even pick a spec out of F&D since all the backgrounds in that book give you force rating 1 to start with.

But being told I could take a spec out of F&D I looked at and noticed i would not get very far if I could not go passed any talent that required me to have a force connection to make use of.

Shii Cho is about the only spec I could take a good portion of traits from without running into a force power.

I never expected my droid to equal a jedi at lightsaber fighting. Sure I could parry reasonably well, but i could not parry as well as a organic being could be able to nor would i be able to reflect blasts back at their shooters or perform a spiffy saber throw.

But I will draw the line at saying a spec I can use as well as anyone else does not apply to a weapon just because people want to make it "Special" and say its not a melee weapon.

IT ain't no blaster and just because I can hurt myself using it or the blade is a magnetically shaped and contained beam of plasma does not make it NOT function like any other sword is just plain silly.

No need to go foaming at the mouth over it.

Nobody is foaming at the mouth over it. If anyone, it's you who's acting aggressive and belligerent in these posts. I simply pointed out that you are going against RAW, and then immediately said if that's fine with you and your GM then go ahead and do it. And you replied with some fairly defensive responses, responses which you have continued in this post I'm quoting here. Check your own tone thank you very much, or I will cease to be the polite person I have been this entire conversation.

well in our games the GM agrees is it a melee weapon and he also agrees that the effects from the marauder spec apply to it. I am also in agreement on such issues.

Fine, like I said in both previous posts, if that works for your table, go ahead. Just be aware it's against RAW. If you don't give a **** about RAW, then I don't either. It's your table, do what you want. It was simply pointing out something that you might not have been aware of.

A lightsaber is a sword or baton you swing, chop, or poke with. IT does not shoot energy blasts out the blade end so is it not a blaster. It doesn't fly around the room guided by your telekinesis mind focus, so its not magic. And it is clearly establish in film, book, comic, video game, and animation that droids can at least swing and block with them.

You're right, and everyone who has replied to you in this thread has agreed that droids can totally use a lightsaber, and ever use a lightsaber talent tree. I fail to see who you are arguing with about this point as nobody has disagreed with this stance on the rules, including the lead developer

You right lightsaber is a separate named skill. But instead of saying its magically special just look at it as a melee focused skill on working only with the lightsaber instead of the score of other melee weapons.

It's not "magically" special, it's a very unique weapon style that is not like most other weapons. I don't know if you've had any weapons training, but I have. And saying that I've had bowstaff training, so therefore I am equally skilled in using a sword, is just ludicrous. But hey, it's easier for gaming to just have all melee under one skill, and that's fine. But if you think it's not entirely different to learn how to use a weapon that has practically zero weight or resistance to most substances it comes into contact with compared to every other weapon we've ever devised, then you're wrong. It takes an entirely different mindset to use a weapon like that effectively, and knowing how to use one weapon, doesn't teach you all the others. FFG decided, like pretty much every other game ever made, to stick with Melee for your standard set of weapons, and that's fine, no sense having 5000 weapon skills. But lightsabers are unique, if only for their rarity in the setting. Most of the galaxy has never seen one, let alone wielded one. This rarity and uniqueness of the item is illustrated by them having their own combat skill.

Now force and destiny has come out and it clearly says Lightsaber - Brawn. Yes you are correct there are also talents to allow you to use other stats instead of brawn to link lightsaber rolls with. But still defaults to brawn otherwise ... As does Brawling...As does Lightsabers Logical parent skill of melee.

Sorry but you're wrong, Melee is not the "logical" parent skill for lightsabers. Lightsaber skill is. You can house rule that to be melee all you want, and that's fine, but the fact that you think it should be that way, doesn't mean it's true.

Reading over this thread seems so odd. You have people saying clearly a droid can use a lightsaber and can take skills from specs that would improve their use of them. But Also say that a droid cannot use the force but can take talents he can never use.... that makes no sense.

Yes it does, you can spend the XP on the meta level, to continue down the tree, you just wont gain any benefit from the talent. Don't like it? Fine, ignore it, I don't really care, and neither does anyone in this thread really. But since the very exact question you are asking has been asked directly to the lead developer we gave you that information, you know, since you posted this thread specifically asking for the answer. That's the answer. Do what you will with that information, but don't argue it and say it makes no sense. You don't like it, don't use it. If you GM just says "meh, skip those boxes and just buy the next one that you can actually use", go ahead, nobody's going to stop you. The FFG RAW Police aren't going to crash through your window and arrest your table of gamers.

The arching rule behind gaming is keep it simple and keep it fun.

Good for you, you share the same opinion of about 99% of the people on these forums, including the people who have replied to this thread.

I am fan of star wars, but I am not a fanboy. I prefer to keep it simple and have fun.

What the hell does fanboyism have to do with anything that's been said in this thread? You asked a question, we've answered it. How much of a Star Wars nerd is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

It's not against the spirit of the game when one of the developers has stated you can buy it and continue on. In fact, with that logic, you're actually FURTHER penalizing yourself.

So where do I find this of which you speak please?

And also please explain to me how WASTING POINTS ON TRAITS I CANNOT USE is a good thing for my character?

And extra rank of parry is not worth 50 points + its own cost. Buying force rating? Oh that is going to be so helpful.

I accepted that there would be limits to what a droid can do or how far they might be able to progress in certain things because they would not be able to use the force or access the force.

I was under the impression that you needed to have a force rating to even pick a spec out of F&D since all the backgrounds in that book give you force rating 1 to start with.

But being told I could take a spec out of F&D I looked at and noticed i would not get very far if I could not go passed any talent that required me to have a force connection to make use of.

Shii Cho is about the only spec I could take a good portion of traits from without running into a force power.

I never expected my droid to equal a jedi at lightsaber fighting. Sure I could parry reasonably well, but i could not parry as well as a organic being could be able to nor would i be able to reflect blasts back at their shooters or perform a spiffy saber throw.

But I will draw the line at saying a spec I can use as well as anyone else does not apply to a weapon just because people want to make it "Special" and say its not a melee weapon.

IT ain't no blaster and just because I can hurt myself using it or the blade is a magnetically shaped and contained beam of plasma does not make it NOT function like any other sword is just plain silly.

This is clearly the song that never ends.

I wanted a Batmobile made of solid chocolate on Easter Morning delivered by Eva Mendes wearing only a garter belt, stockings, and heels........I didn't get what I wanted. We all have to deal with life's little disappointments I suppose....

In regards to the spirit of the game and fair play, it's also a rule that if you've previously purchased a non ranked Talent and it appears in another Talent tree you're progressing through you need not spend the points buying it again to move past it.

The devs also freely state any rule that gets in the way of fun should be ignored, so this funk you've worked yourself into is wholly self imposed.

Sorry if I am gave some impression I was in a funk. I am not, I am only trying to stick to the theme and spirit of a droid and how they can or cannot use force traits or talents.

In the spirit of taking a trait now but not able to use now vs taking a trait now and never being able to use because I can never take the require force awakened quality strikes me as meta-gaming and even munchkining.

I just wanted to play a lightsaber training droid who could use a lightsaber and be good enough at it to give the bad guys a run for their money or even kick their collective backsides.

I'm happy with what I can gain by smattering in the Shii Cho stuff. I won't be able to take stuff from the very last line but I could maybe use of the marauder traits to off sent what I won't be able to do.

I'm for one do not see the percived over powering effect of marauder abilities applying to using a lightsaber.

+3 damage

+30 to criticals

Being able to upgrade 3 dice into yellows instead of green

Knockdown

Defensive Stance

Whats the big deal? I seem to not grasp the OMG level of it.

I'm for one do not see the percived over powering effect of marauder abilities applying to using a lightsaber.

+3 damage

+30 to criticals

Being able to upgrade 3 dice into yellows instead of green

Knockdown

Defensive Stance

Whats the big deal? I seem to not grasp the OMG level of it.

Then you clearly don't understand the system.

To answer your question KungFuFerret..

"What the hell does fanboyism have to do with anything that's been said in this thread? You asked a question, we've answered it. How much of a Star Wars nerd is totally irrelevant to this discussion."

As a fan.... I see a lightsaber as a melee weapon. Sure its fancy but you still swing it like a sword or staff or baton in game mechanics. A lightsaber would be at best a specialized melee skill if anything.

A fanboy (this is not an insult mind you)... would break it down that the lightsaber is weightless, requires you to have the force so you can see where you need to place the blade to block an incoming blaster bolt, needs to sense the force to do something with the crystal so you can even build a lightsaber, and other such details. A fanboy is a deeper fan of something who knows all the little tidbits and details. Stuff that can turn a story into an mind grasping adventure or often turns a simple mechanic into a complex one that people instead want to "No it doesn't work this way because its not that way or yes it works this way because it is this way".


Its not a bad issue it makes for a more enriching game and detailed experience.

To answer your question KungFuFerret..

"What the hell does fanboyism have to do with anything that's been said in this thread? You asked a question, we've answered it. How much of a Star Wars nerd is totally irrelevant to this discussion."

As a fan.... I see a lightsaber as a melee weapon. Sure its fancy but you still swing it like a sword or staff or baton in game mechanics. A lightsaber would be at best a specialized melee skill if anything.

A fanboy (this is not an insult mind you)... would break it down that the lightsaber is weightless, requires you to have the force so you can see where you need to place the blade to block an incoming blaster bolt, needs to sense the force to do something with the crystal so you can even build a lightsaber, and other such details. A fanboy is a deeper fan of something who knows all the little tidbits and details. Stuff that can turn a story into an mind grasping adventure or often turns a simple mechanic into a complex one that people instead want to "No it doesn't work this way because its not that way or yes it works this way because it is this way".

Its not a bad issue it makes for a more enriching game and detailed experience.

....I'm officially done with this thread. There is no talking to you. Do what you want, we actually don't care. Like we've said multiple times.

I'm for one do not see the percived over powering effect of marauder abilities applying to using a lightsaber.

+3 damage

+30 to criticals

Being able to upgrade 3 dice into yellows instead of green

Knockdown

Defensive Stance

Whats the big deal? I seem to not grasp the OMG level of it.

Then you clearly don't understand the system.

Your right, I just started making a character 2 weeks ago and had my first game as a player yesterday. I have only run as a GM the beginner box adventure and that ended up being a one shot game.

I am only at the beginning player level, the dice still confuse me and reading stuff sometimes does not make much sense. But when I learn and IF I see any problems with the lightsaber using marauder it will be a learning experience. But where i am currently sitting in my ignorance of it all.

A marauding lightsaber using melee fighting droid sure seems like fun. Last night I punched 2 badguys with my Brawn 5 and slapped 2 others with my training 6 damage - crit stun only lightsaber I have only 1 rank in using.

I took some damage from 2 kids punching me (my soak is 6 and I don't currently have any armor), and crashed a speeder bike into a canyon wall. took 6 wounds of damage out of 15 in all. Game lasted 2 hours and I earned 10 exp and 50 credits.

Threat to the empire and Star Wars in general I ain't

Spent 160 bucks on books and dice I did.

Sorry if rubbed you the wrong way. The word fanboy was not a derogatory term, A fan is someone who likes something and while knows some things about it does not have a in depth knowledge, I have always understood a fanboy/fangirl to be someone who actually knows what they are talking about. You don't have to be done with me or the thread. I can be talked to just fine.

I'm looking forward to being on the boards.

The core problem with allowing talents that specify the Melee skill to work with a Lightsaber is that a lightsaber is significantly more potent in combat, thanks in large part to the Breach 1 quality.

I've been playing and running games in this system since pretty much the EotE Beta was released back in 2012, and trust me that Breach quality on a lightsaber makes it pound for pound one of the most potent weapons in the game.

In contrast, a vibro-ax (which is generally considered one of the top Melee weapons in the game) really needs a PC with a spec like Marauder behind it to be able to even begin to compete, where a basic lightsaber is dangerous in the hands of any PC, even one that's only rolling straight ability dice. Even if you give the vibro-ax the best attachments possible (balanced hilt, mono-molecular edge, superior weapon customization) it still pales in comparison to a basic lightsaber with a fully modded Ilum crystal.

If you're going to prevent the droid from ever modifying the lightsaber crystal and leave it stuck at the stats for a basic lightsaber, then it might be okay to let things like Feral Strength and Ferocious Strike be applied. But even still, that PC is going to be hell on wheels since the soak value of any adversaries is pretty much going to be ignored by the lightsaber, where even a tricked-out vibro-ax with a fully-modded mono-molecular edge attachment still has to do business with some of the higher soak values.

In FaD games, when an un-modded basic lightsaber becomes something that the PCs can obtain, the combat dynamic shifts considerably in favor of the PCs during most encounters. Myself and other GMs that have been running games in this system since the FaD Beta was released have seen this happen. There have been several threads over on the FaD sub-forum from GMs new and experienced about how introducing lightsabers radically changed the balance of power in their games.

KungFuFerret and my extension myself aren't necessarily trying to tell you how to run your game, but instead are attempting to warn you that what sounds like a cool idea is going to cause you a lot of headaches very quickly, especially as the PC delves further into the Marauder spec. You've admitted to being fairly new to GMing this system, and we're simply providing advice based upon our greater experience that your proposed house rule is going to cause you a lot of grief.

First i'm super glad you enjoyed the game, its an awesome system, although i'm probably in the category of FFG Fanboy...

Second having knowledge of an ability and being functionally able to use the ability is different. I can totally get behind a Droid being trained in Lightsaber use and at some point sitting down to discus how a Force Sensitive can react fast enough to Reflect, the Droid has spent the time fully understanding that facet of Lightsaber use, but is aware they cant actually do it themselves.

Third, if you wanted to be a Training Droid then Makashi Duelist is more fitting, and you only have to "waste" 10xp to be able to get 5 ranks in Parry instead of 4 with 20xp wasted. In fact i would have started in Makashi and picked up Shi-Cho as my second spec, resulting in:

• 8 Parry for as little as 165 earned xp!!!! thats 3 strain to reduce damage from a hit by 10 (9 ranks by the time you have 600+xp and dont mind wasting 20 xp to get Durable 2, Dedication and last the Parry in Shi-Cho)
• 4 Grit
• 1 Toughened
• Resist Disarm
• Duelist's Training & Multiple opponents (a boost to Lightsaber checks no mater who your fighting )
• 2 Ranks of Feint
• Improved Parry
• Intense Presence & 2 ranks of Second Wind (Strain recovery is boss)
• Defensive Training (1 weapon defence no matter what you wield)
• Quick Draw
• Natural Blade Master

Its my first character and my group is just people who starting meeting up at the local game store. Not planning on the game lasting long in running time.

I have not started in any specs yet. All my points went into stats and skills. I got 10 points from the first adventure. Our GM is still open to letting us swap skills and stuff around until we actually spend our first bit of experience points.

I may end up just going into the Heavy line up as I was also interested in that. Marauder and Heavy seem like a good mix as well.

Shield generated and steelskin armor sounds like a fun combo. +2 defense +3 soak. but man it will be a heavy setup.

In regards to the spirit of the game and fair play, it's also a rule that if you've previously purchased a non ranked Talent and it appears in another Talent tree you're progressing through you need not spend the points buying it again to move past it.

The devs also freely state any rule that gets in the way of fun should be ignored, so this funk you've worked yourself into is wholly self imposed.

Sorry if I am gave some impression I was in a funk. I am not, I am only trying to stick to the theme and spirit of a droid and how they can or cannot use force traits or talents.

In the spirit of taking a trait now but not able to use now vs taking a trait now and never being able to use because I can never take the require force awakened quality strikes me as meta-gaming and even munchkining.

I just wanted to play a lightsaber training droid who could use a lightsaber and be good enough at it to give the bad guys a run for their money or even kick their collective backsides.

I'm for one do not see the percived over powering effect of marauder abilities applying to using a lightsaber.

+3 damage

+30 to criticals

Being able to upgrade 3 dice into yellows instead of green

Knockdown

Defensive Stance

Whats the big deal? I seem to not grasp the OMG level of it.

Defensive Stance can be used regardless of the weapon you are using.

A lightsaber has Breach and doesn't need to add damage, and honestly if you're just trying to take out all of a target's wounds you really are not seeing what a lightsaber can do.

I think trying to knock off all of a target's wounds with a lightsaber is a waste of time given you can pile up multiple crit activations with a properly modded one and just not even bother with the math.

Then there's Sunder.

Honestly as potent as they are going completely murder bot and spending a ton of xp on Talents to buff one is a waste of xp whether you can buy and use the given Talent or not imo. A fully modded one in the hands of someone with a 4 Brawn and zero skill just double aiming is going to be able to dispose of the vast majority of target's in the game.

Actually I just figured it as a murder bot toy. I know jedi can parry with them and deflect bolts. I know they hot knife through butter on armor, and they increase crits by +10 points and crit at the drop of a hat.

You can also swiss army knife open pesky locked doors and stuff.

What else can you use it for? I was trying to learn more about them.

So... lemme see if I can piece together some of the discussion going on, since I really don't think "both sides" are actually reading what the others have written.

1) Are Lightsabers a magical weapon which only the fabled Jedi can wield?

No they are not. They are a mechanical device, plain and simple. However, many of the tricks associated with wielding a Lightsaber are achieved by using the Force. Lightsabers do not fly themselves through the air like a Repulsorlift droid, it takes a Force user to levitate them.

2) Can a droid learn to wield a Lightsaber and perform all the mundane tricks a Jedi could?

Absolutely. There is nothing keeping them from learning the Lightsaber skill (not Melee skill) and wielding a Lightsaber in combat. Except for needing a teacher and a means to practice. And while it's easy to find someone to teach you a sword, and plenty of weapon vendors who could sell you a sword, there aren't many who can provide and teach a Lightsaber.

3) Does the idea of a droid wielding a Lightsaber go against the spirit of Star Wars?

Only if you disagree with Point #1. If a Lightsaber were a magic wand, and only Jedi were capable of channeling the Force into it to make it activate, then sure you'd have a case for saying that non-Force users cannot wield one. But it's a plasma blade powered by a battery and channeled through a rock. Anyone can pick it up, turn it on, and swing it around.

I'm about | | this far from walking away from this whole thread too. Nobody is listening, they're all just ranting about the same things over and over.

Neutron, you're upset about having to buy talents you'll never use. What about a Mercenary who is "forced" into paying for Strong Arm (greater range for thrown weapons) who never intends to throw anything. They chose to make a Mercenary b/c they wanted to shoot stuff with blasters for the rest of their lives. But they had to "waste" XP on a talent so they could proceed down the path.

Making a droid, and choosing a Force related career path, you're going to run into a few talents you cannot use. But you still have to purchase them to progress.

I, for one, am glad to see this thread turning towards the 'light side' of the conversation... the tone has vastly improved, by all parties involved.

Like Bkoran (and probably more than a few others), I was just about to shunt this off to one of those threads to be avoided.

Actually I just figured it as a murder bot toy. I know jedi can parry with them and deflect bolts. I know they hot knife through butter on armor, and they increase crits by +10 points and crit at the drop of a hat.

You can also swiss army knife open pesky locked doors and stuff.

What else can you use it for? I was trying to learn more about them.

My suggestion would be to review the attachments/crystals for lightsabers and you will quickly see just how much capability is front loaded into a single weapon that requires any other weapons in the game a combination of multiple attachments and Talents to achieve, if even.

Well my group has a shadow jedi player.

Also I was of the understanding a droid could not take a force talent since they have no force. I am perfectly fine with this idea and plan to stick to it. Eventually If I GM I am likely to keep it that way. It makes sense to me afterall, but others insist otherwise.

Also others insist that lightsabers are not effected by the maraudur spec traits. Somehow a lightsaber is viewed as something other than a melee weapon. I dont understand that train of thought. My GM and I feel it does, that may change down the line.

As for force talents. If i spec in a tree I will not take a trait i wont ever be able to use. Not dont want to use, or the like. But flat out lack the ability to ever use. So if you look at the trees my paths in it stop at the * marked ones. Which I am okay with. I only plan to dabble in it anyways not become a blademaster more just a skillful user. But i won't waste a point on something just so i can get something beyond it. That is not my way of doing things.

I wasnt not planning on using anything more than the saber listed in the non F&D book. My head hurts when pondering all those crystals.

Plus I am still rules and mechanics stupid.

Well my group has a shadow jedi player.

Also I was of the understanding a droid could not take a force talent since they have no force. I am perfectly fine with this idea and plan to stick to it. Eventually If I GM I am likely to keep it that way. It makes sense to me afterall, but others insist otherwise.

Also others insist that lightsabers are not effected by the maraudur spec traits. Somehow a lightsaber is viewed as something other than a melee weapon. I dont understand that train of thought. My GM and I feel it does, that may change down the line.

As for force talents. If i spec in a tree I will not take a trait i wont ever be able to use. Not dont want to use, or the like. But flat out lack the ability to ever use. So if you look at the trees my paths in it stop at the * marked ones. Which I am okay with. I only plan to dabble in it anyways not become a blademaster more just a skillful user. But i won't waste a point on something just so i can get something beyond it. That is not my way of doing things.

I wasnt not planning on using anything more than the saber listed in the non F&D book. My head hurts when pondering all those crystals.

Plus I am still rules and mechanics stupid.

Definitely not stupid. your grasp of the rules is far beyond what some people have, the wording can be very specific in some areas and very open in others, making judgment on rulings tricky some times. I think your reasoning is fine, not wanting to take those * talents for the pure reason that its not "right" is fine. I personally just disagree that a Droid "can't" take those talents, i think there are thematic reasons for it to be ok. I think your short campaign of a Marauder using a Lightsaber wont be much of a problem, its more a down the road concern for a tricked out Crystal that could end up doing 15 Damage with Breach 1 that frightens me as a GM.

Anywho your gaming and thats cool. Enjoy. The community here tends to side heavily with the Rules As Written and Rules As Intended when someone comes in asking for advice, hence the somewhat heated discussion with people that not only have played for 3+ years but are also play testers of the system all the way through and have a very deep understanding of what the Developers intend within the system. There is a wealth of knowledge here that can be very hard to convey, but if you do have queries on how something is supposed to work this is a seriously good place to start asking.

Also others insist that lightsabers are not effected by the maraudur spec traits. Somehow a lightsaber is viewed as something other than a melee weapon. I dont understand that train of thought. My GM and I feel it does, that may change down the line.

I wasnt not planning on using anything more than the saber listed in the non F&D book. My head hurts when pondering all those crystals.

Plus I am still rules and mechanics stupid.

No one is saying a lightsaber is not a "melee weapon" we are saying it does not use the "Melee Skill", it uses the "Lightsaber Skill", which is the difference between an improper noun and proper noun and is vital in understanding why Talents like Frenzied Attack and Feral Strength do not not apply to Lightsaber attacks. The reason as stated is for balance in the combat system.

The Lightsaber presented in EoE and AoR is a fully modded Ilum crystal, and looking at what that weapon can do, and then comparing it to other weapons, it should be readily apparent why certain Talents don't stack with the use of a Lightsaber. It simply is too overpowered. A Lightsaber modded like that is a critical hit wand already.

Your last sentence is hard to understand but honestly the rules and mechanics are not stupid. You may not like them, but that doesn't make them stupid. Try growing up.

I am rules stupid.... meaning I am stupid on how the rules work.

Not sure why people are reading into things i say as some insult to others. Never has that once been my intent or meaning.

No need to be on the defensive.

F&D pg 136, Talents

"Note that a character without a Force rating (a non-Force-sensitive) can purchase a Force talent; however he cannot use it or gain any benefits from it."

Also

F&D pg 136, Talent Trees

"In order to navigate to a new talent, the character must have already purchased all of the preceding talents listed on the tree, so that he can draw a “line” from the top of the tree, through purchased talents, to the new talent. All such descents must follow the available lines shown on each tree. Note that for some trees, directly descending a column is not possible, because there is a break in the listing. In these cases, the character must first descend a neighboring column, and then follow the line over before moving up or down the tree to access a desired talent."

If you can make your way around the tree, by coming down some path and winding back up and around, you can basically purchase everything while also avoiding the few Force talents each path features. It's just not as clean as coming straight down the path, but it is allowed (wandering the path, that is).

Non-Force sensitive living beings can also choose to purchase a Force talent tree, and they too could either skirt around or simply buy the Force talents, knowing that they too won't be able to use them.

Everything on the Marauder tree says "when making a Melee or Brawl check". Lightsaber is its own skill. It does not fall under the Melee skill at all. As seen on EoE pg 167.

Lightsabers normally require the Lightsaber skill to wield. However, since that skill is not an option for the Player Characters in this book, players must use a lightsaber untrained (selecting either Brawn or Agility as the base characteristic). This is deliberate, because there are few people in the galaxy who properly know how to fight with a lightsaber. However, if the GM feels it is warranted, he can create the Lightsaber skill as a custom skill for his players.

Lightsabers do not handle at all like you would expect a Melee or Brawl weapon to handle. Which is why EoE didn't say "just use Melee" anywhere in the book.

And as far as using the Lightsaber stats from EoE, realize that those reflect having found / inherited a fully modded Lightsaber that would have come from a fallen Jedi Master. The damage values reflect an Ilum crystal with every mod in place, which makes them very powerful in the end. That's why F&D gets into the different crystals, and why the basic stats are much lower. If your character is working towards becoming a Jedi (or something to that effect), then you don't want to give them the best endgame weapon imaginable. You want to give them a box full of parts, which they can put together to make their own. Something they will treasure and cherish, because it is theirs. Not something they found. Not a hand-me-down.