if i remember right xbear is the person who ran a really bad double ghostl ist tuned to kill squints and nothing else basically and made a whole thread about how badly it was beaten.

it was pretty funny tbh

tbh anyone that buys a ton of the flavor model because its OP or whatever deserves to waste their money.

Nobody runs such tactics unless theyre a WAAC (win at all costs for those non40k players out there). I literally never buy masses of a single model in any game unless its dirt cheap to do so (moneywise). If youre winning a lot because you used what you had and maybe 1-2 more expansions to make an amazing list, thats a great player. If youre buying 3-5 expansions per ship in a 3 ship list that you never even HAD beforehand because you found out its amazingly good, youre a WAAC

This kind of thing happens in other miniature games all the time. FFG probably sees this and wants to avoid it. I got out of Warzone Resurrection because what they did to my imperials severely pissed me off so i stopped playing.

Uboats are op as hell yes but they can be countered, nothing in this game is THAT broken to where future releases wont dull it down a little anyway. Far as ive seen anyway.

Nobody runs such tactics unless theyre a WAAC (win at all costs for those non40k players out there). I literally never buy masses of a single model in any game unless its dirt cheap to do so (moneywise).

WAAC

Running competitive builds isn't WAAC. Insisting that someone can't move their PS2 ships because they revealed the dial of their PS8 ship makes you WAAC.

Running competitive builds isn't WAAC. Insisting that someone can't move their PS2 ships because they revealed the dial of their PS8 ship makes you WAAC.

I completely agree. I don't think running 4 TLTs or 3 Scouts makes you a WAAC player, and maybe not been cheesy.

But I do think there's something to be idea that there's a population of players in X-wing that seem to run whatever the flavor of the month is. There are a couple of these in every local or regional meta, and they're not bad people or bad players. But they ran Rebel lists with 2-3 B-wings in Wave 3, and they ran Phantoms in Wave 4, and they ran pancakes in Wave 5-6, and they ran TLT spam in Wave 7, and now they're running JumpMasters. It doesn't bother me, exactly, but I find the lack of imagination stifling sometimes.

One of the more interesting things about this, is that really none of the individual pieces are broken/op.

The scout is probably under costed. It's very specifically the combination of upgrades. The recon specialist version is the most powerful on paper, for the extra cost, but suffers from diminishing returns slightly, and you cannot run 3 of that specific build, but you don't need recspec.

it's certain that the point cost should give us a strong ship, near soontir fel cost, near soontir fel strength. It's a case of the synergy being on the highest end of the power curve, and three in concert being super efficient. It's a little bit like running triple ptl thruster soontir Fel's, one with stealth. Soontir' uniqueness prevents that headache.

Running competitive builds isn't WAAC. Insisting that someone can't move their PS2 ships because they revealed the dial of their PS8 ship makes you WAAC.

I completely agree. I don't think running 4 TLTs or 3 Scouts makes you a WAAC player, and maybe not been cheesy.

But I do think there's something to be idea that there's a population of players in X-wing that seem to run whatever the flavor of the month is. There are a couple of these in every local or regional meta, and they're not bad people or bad players. But they ran Rebel lists with 2-3 B-wings in Wave 3, and they ran Phantoms in Wave 4, and they ran pancakes in Wave 5-6, and they ran TLT spam in Wave 7, and now they're running JumpMasters. It doesn't bother me, exactly, but I find the lack of imagination stifling sometimes.

I chalk a lot of that up to one of two things:

- People not having the time to properly test out builds of their own. They want to play at a competitive level and using a list that is doing well elsewhere kind of crowd-sources the play testing of the list.

- Players that are at the point in their understanding of the game that can play decently if someone else handles the list building for them but haven't figured out what they really need to do to make a balanced and competitive list.

Running competitive builds isn't WAAC. Insisting that someone can't move their PS2 ships because they revealed the dial of their PS8 ship makes you WAAC.

I completely agree. I don't think running 4 TLTs or 3 Scouts makes you a WAAC player, and maybe not been cheesy.

But I do think there's something to be idea that there's a population of players in X-wing that seem to run whatever the flavor of the month is. There are a couple of these in every local or regional meta, and they're not bad people or bad players. But they ran Rebel lists with 2-3 B-wings in Wave 3, and they ran Phantoms in Wave 4, and they ran pancakes in Wave 5-6, and they ran TLT spam in Wave 7, and now they're running JumpMasters. It doesn't bother me, exactly, but I find the lack of imagination stifling sometimes.

It's the same mentality as buying a lvl 90 character in WOW, not wanting to invest the time in playing at least half of the game. Just get what is doing best at the moment and let other people figure out what works.

Every game has its Spikes, just as you'll always encounter a Timmy or a Johnny.

Playing a list that does well does not mean you will do well

It comes down to player choices and skill

Some lists cater to a person play style more

Which is why I think out of all the tripple U-boat lists not many win

People take them thinking is easy mode, then find out, oh crap I'm not that good with this.

Also if 50 players show up to a tournament and 12 players are flying tripple U-boat your bound to get one in a top spot.

Same can be said for anything like that though

If 15 people flew bomber lists out of 50 we'dv likely see one in a top spot

I fly what I enjoy and am good at. I won a store championship with a meta list, but I didn't choose it because of that

(in fact during store championship time I only saw it win one other spot)

I went with it because I like the ships, two of which are couple of my favorites.

Idk, but I'm glad we broke away from the tlt, and fat Han lists

I was so sick of those lists

It just seemed like anyone and their dog could do well with it.

Unlike a Imperial meta list, you won't do well if your a new player looking for an easy win mode.

I have yet had the satisfaction of playing against a tripple U-boat, but they don't seem to be that frequent around here that I'm aware of.

I'll probably practice against it with friend of mine as he has two and I'll be picking one up soon.

Tripple U-boat to me seem like the quad tlt lists

People hoping for an easy win, and lack skill to try use something else

Running competitive builds isn't WAAC. Insisting that someone can't move their PS2 ships because they revealed the dial of their PS8 ship makes you WAAC.

I completely agree. I don't think running 4 TLTs or 3 Scouts makes you a WAAC player, and maybe not been cheesy.

But I do think there's something to be idea that there's a population of players in X-wing that seem to run whatever the flavor of the month is. There are a couple of these in every local or regional meta, and they're not bad people or bad players. But they ran Rebel lists with 2-3 B-wings in Wave 3, and they ran Phantoms in Wave 4, and they ran pancakes in Wave 5-6, and they ran TLT spam in Wave 7, and now they're running JumpMasters. It doesn't bother me, exactly, but I find the lack of imagination stifling sometimes.

It's the same mentality as buying a lvl 90 character in WOW, not wanting to invest the time in playing at least half of the game. Just get what is doing best at the moment and let other people figure out what works.

Every game has its Spikes, just as you'll always encounter a Timmy or a Johnny.

If you want to Raid or PvP with friends why spend 100 hours leveling up in PvE when you can buy a character that is ready to play for what amounts to a few hours pay. You can always do PvE with a different character on that same account if you decide you want to experience that content.

if you take a VCX with sensor jammer or deflectors, that's 40+ points for 4 unmodified. and against palpaces who always have focus tokens sensor jammer is almost useless.

so this "plenty of options" is Kanan, Biggs and Wes? and these are all great choices against the rest of the meta? maybe, but basically if you dont' want to fly Kanan?

The Lothal Rebel and Chopper have also done well.

The Lothal in particular is a stud for 35 points. It usually has no problem earning its points back.

Its fair to say that as they stand 1 jumpmaster is strong but only becomes a real problem when there's 3 of them or 2 with a decent support ship.

Nerfing Deadeye while a quick fix isn't the best solution. You are penalising everyone that could use it now and any ordnance ships in the future that may use it.

Upping the points by 2 for the ship is the easiest solution as it doesn't risk treading on any other cards toes. People who bought 3 can still run 3 but now you need to find 6 more points that must come from upgrades thus limiting their effectiveness slightly and bringing them down a tiny bit. This would encourage 2 tooled ships and a 3rd non jumpmaster ship which makes more interesting and creative squads and makes the health of the game better.

If you want to Raid or PvP with friends why spend 100 hours leveling up in PvE when you can buy a character that is ready to play for what amounts to a few hours pay.

Because it's part of the game? Because you want to have a character you've invested time in instead of just a random thing somebody else built?

Its fair to say that as they stand 1 jumpmaster is strong but only becomes a real problem when there's 3 of them or 2 with a decent support ship.

Nerfing Deadeye while a quick fix isn't the best solution. You are penalising everyone that could use it now and any ordnance ships in the future that may use it.

Upping the points by 2 for the ship is the easiest solution as it doesn't risk treading on any other cards toes. People who bought 3 can still run 3 but now you need to find 6 more points that must come from upgrades thus limiting their effectiveness slightly and bringing them down a tiny bit. This would encourage 2 tooled ships and a 3rd non jumpmaster ship which makes more interesting and creative squads and makes the health of the game better.

Without Deadeye and R4 Agromech/Overclocked R4 and torpedoes and Guidance Chips, it's not a problem. It's a very specific combination of upgrades that's causing the problem; it's not that the ship itself is underpriced.

If you want to Raid or PvP with friends why spend 100 hours leveling up in PvE when you can buy a character that is ready to play for what amounts to a few hours pay.

Because it's part of the game? Because you want to have a character you've invested time in instead of just a random thing somebody else built?

If that's what you want out of a game then buying a pre-leveled character obviously isn't for you. If you just want to raid and PvP, leveling is a bothersome chore.

Likewise in X-Wing if you want to play a few practice games with a list and then go hit a tournament, grabbing a tried and tested list may be the way to go. It gets you to the part of the game that you want to play without having to mess with the parts that you don't.

It's just like using assembled, pre-painted miniatures.

Maybe the R4 could become unique. Not a fan of deadeye becoming one use or unique but limiting the driods could work?

Scyk needs a nerf. (this statement is as intelligent as the OP)

I already consider them more OP then the pre nerf Phantom. They are winning more and are a worse play experience.

Yeah, maybe a trio of bumpmasters (not the winning more since they get shredded by jousters) are a worse play experience...

Another thing to keep in mind when we're asking for fixes, recosting, etc because of the new hotness is that it's going to take longer and longer and longer to find the way/the list to beat X list because there are more and more options. It's going to take casual pilots EVEN LONGER and that's the negative play experience that many feel.

Also, Scum has two DOA ships for most competitive purposes. Until the Scyk and Kfighter can see play we'll continue to see little list diversity in Scum..

"Looks at last weeks Regionals"

Good news...

And I have been seeing some nice variety in Scum lists. It's just people take a way to broad view of archetypes to see it.

That is good news... see what happens when I only go 2 pages back in a thread instead of 3!

We still need to see repeats of Scyks in top lists to move them off the DOA list though. Maybe the meta will shift just enough to let them in the door but I'm not hopeful.

Maybe the R4 could become unique. Not a fan of deadeye becoming one use or unique but limiting the driods could work?

Part of the problem with a U-boats nerf is that no one part of the combo can be changed without hurting a lot of other possible builds. That leaves hitting the jump master itself, but bumpmasters and Dengar are great additions to the meta.

Honestly, it's probably best to leave the U-boats a point too cheap and introduce a countermeasure.

One of the more interesting things about this, is that really none of the individual pieces are broken/op.

The scout is probably under costed. It's very specifically the combination of upgrades. The recon specialist version is the most powerful on paper, for the extra cost, but suffers from diminishing returns slightly, and you cannot run 3 of that specific build, but you don't need recspec.

it's certain that the point cost should give us a strong ship, near soontir fel cost, near soontir fel strength. It's a case of the synergy being on the highest end of the power curve, and three in concert being super efficient. It's a little bit like running triple ptl thruster soontir Fel's, one with stealth. Soontir' uniqueness prevents that headache.

I completely agree. Looking at a previous ship that was similar to the scout, the YT-2400, the scout is 5 points cheaper for a PS3 over a PS2 with one less shield.

Basically, this wouldn't be as much of a problem if the scout cost 27-28 as opposed to 25.

Without Deadeye and R4 Agromech/Overclocked R4 and torpedoes and Guidance Chips, it's not a problem. It's a very specific combination of upgrades that's causing the problem; it's not that the ship itself is underpriced.

I'm not sure i follow. Part of what you buy with your points is access to slots for various upgrades. The scout costs too little for what it can access, in much the same way that soontir would be too cheap at his current price if you threw a system slot into the interceptor. If you just mean that 25 points is fine for a 9 hp 2 agi 2 attack pancake as a base stat line, sure, of course. But it's too cheap for that same shop when it had the slots that it has.

I think they are afraid of customers reaction. Imagine how would react the one who bought three toilet seats specifically to play them with original rules and now, only month or so after, he hears that because of nerf his toys become useless.

That would be total outrage, also it would sent a wrong message, that company bends you over by forcing you to buy overpowered models and immadiately after that makes your buys useless.

dude i have 3 Tie Phantoms, and they don't see play except maybe Whisper once and a while, i bought them because of the advetised arc dodging, where's my refund.

Just remove the EPT from the generics and the problem is solved.

Just remove the EPT from the generics and the problem is solved.

THis works as well. You can still run an alpha triple JM list via Tel with EM Deadeye R4 Plasma Chips, Manaroo with EM Deadeye R4 Proton Chips, and Scout with Intel Agent.

If anything it's a better list because it alphas at higher PS and Manaroo can pass tokens if she's not in range to shoot/be shot.

I doubt, as I've said, any fix will be in the offing, however, as the JMs will settle in the meta and find their place pretty quickly. The flavour of the month will soon be replaced with the next flavour of the month and people can start whinging about that instead.

Just remove the EPT from the generics and the problem is solved.

Hmmm.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206212-the-costed-scout/