I am curious, would you rather have one less JumpMaster - if they fixed the point cost to be in line with most of the other "fixed" ships in the game?

The cost of the Contracted Scout is not the problem.

Eminently arguable. If the scout had been 27 or 29 instead of 25 you would only have been able to get two fully loaded scouts into a list, and the alpha strike would have been nowhere near as devastating.

Sure, that's true. But that would also be the case if Proton Torpedoes cost 8 points instead of 4 points, and no one is arguing that's the solution.

What I mean is that when you subtract the Deadeye-astromech-Chips-torpedo complex, it's really hard to argue that the Contracted Scout is too much of a powerhouse. There's no good counterfactual out there, since the U-boat has pushed out a lot of other potential builds, but I suspect without that set of ordnance-focused upgrades, we'd only see Dengar, the occasional Manaroo, and very rare BumpMasters.

Maybe it seems like splitting hairs, but I think locating the problem correctly is the first step to fixing it (or at least confining the damage).

Wild Space Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler would like a word with you.

I am curious, would you rather have one less JumpMaster - if they fixed the point cost to be in line with most of the other "fixed" ships in the game?

The cost of the Contracted Scout is not the problem.

Eminently arguable. If the scout had been 27 or 29 instead of 25 you would only have been able to get two fully loaded scouts into a list, and the alpha strike would have been nowhere near as devastating.

Sure, that's true. But that would also be the case if Proton Torpedoes cost 8 points instead of 4 points, and no one is arguing that's the solution.

What I mean is that when you subtract the Deadeye-astromech-Chips-torpedo complex, it's really hard to argue that the Contracted Scout is too much of a powerhouse. There's no good counterfactual out there, since the U-boat has pushed out a lot of other potential builds, but I suspect without that set of ordnance-focused upgrades, we'd only see Dengar, the occasional Manaroo, and very rare BumpMasters.

Maybe it seems like splitting hairs, but I think locating the problem correctly is the first step to fixing it (or at least confining the damage).

Wild Space Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler would like a word with you.

Overcosted ships that only saw competetive play briefly if at all. Those can't be comparisons. There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

Yes, give me my Rebel U-boat!

There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

Yes, give me my Rebel U-boat!

so wave 9 is imperial u boats?

There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

Yes, give me my Rebel U-boat!

so wave 9 is imperial u boats?

No, that would be Imperial Veterans.

There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

Yes, give me my Rebel U-boat!

so wave 9 is imperial u boats?

That would be Imperial Veterans with the Gamma Squadron Vets. Deadeye, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips and you are good to go. Alternatively you can use LRSs and Crackshot for more damage less conveniently delivered.

There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

Yes, give me my Rebel U-boat!

so wave 9 is imperial u boats?

That would be Imperial Veterans with the Gamma Squadron Vets. Deadeye, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips and you are good to go. Alternatively you can use LRSs and Crackshot for more damage less conveniently delivered.

defenders can't have LRS

There is a reason why Heroes of the Resistance is going to come with a new YT-1300 generic.

Yes, give me my Rebel U-boat!

so wave 9 is imperial u boats?

That would be Imperial Veterans with the Gamma Squadron Vets. Deadeye, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips and you are good to go. Alternatively you can use LRSs and Crackshot for more damage less conveniently delivered.

defenders can't have LRS

There is a TIE Bomber in that pack.

U-boats are perfect creation of FFG. Beautiful in every inch. They don't need any nerf. We just need learn how to play against them, and maybe some more equally good ships in Scum faction to have some diversity would be nice.

What if the fabled hard counter is a weapon that hands out weapons disabled tokens?

What if it's really Attani Mindlink for Agility 3 ships that can also Evade? Maybe the counter is TPV Scyks w/ Mindlink and Mangler Cannons? 3 x TPV that way w/ Serrisu might work.

Good luck with that.

What if the fabled hard counter is a weapon that hands out weapons disabled tokens?

Then you Bomb.

Bombs don't give a flip if you're weapons are disabled

Bombs don't care if you're stressed

Bombs don't care if you're on an asteroid.

Bomb everything.

What if the fabled hard counter is a weapon that hands out weapons disabled tokens?

A Beam Weapon cannon would be nice, but what price? And it would only be for high PS ships unless you find a way to carry it over into the next round.

Cannon that disables weapons? Have you heard about the new defenders?

Broken horrible idea not happening.

What if the fabled hard counter is a weapon that hands out weapons disabled tokens?

Then you Bomb.

Bombs don't give a flip if you're weapons are disabled

Bombs don't care if you're stressed

Bombs don't care if you're on an asteroid.

Bomb everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUCjS029P4I

the problem with bombs is when your palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms heavy, vomit on your sweater already (mom's spaghetti); you're nervous, but on the nervous you look calm and ready to drop bombs...

but you keep on forgetting

I am curious, would you rather have one less JumpMaster - if they fixed the point cost to be in line with most of the other "fixed" ships in the game?

The cost of the Contracted Scout is not the problem.

Eminently arguable. If the scout had been 27 or 29 instead of 25 you would only have been able to get two fully loaded scouts into a list, and the alpha strike would have been nowhere near as devastating.

Sure, that's true. But that would also be the case if Proton Torpedoes cost 8 points instead of 4 points, and no one is arguing that's the solution.

What I mean is that when you subtract the Deadeye-astromech-Chips-torpedo complex, it's really hard to argue that the Contracted Scout is too much of a powerhouse. There's no good counterfactual out there, since the U-boat has pushed out a lot of other potential builds, but I suspect without that set of ordnance-focused upgrades, we'd only see Dengar, the occasional Manaroo, and very rare BumpMasters.

Maybe it seems like splitting hairs, but I think locating the problem correctly is the first step to fixing it (or at least confining the damage).

Wild Space Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler would like a word with you.

As Admiral Deathrain said, those are really bad bases for comparison. They're at least 4 points overpriced, and possibly as much as 10 (depending on how valuable you think the turret is).

I've been playing a Rebel squad with great success and have won out against a few different Pal Ace builds and the tripple Scouts without too much trouble.

Wedge Antilles (32)

BB-8 (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Poe Dameron (PS8 Version) (37)

R5-P9 (3), Veteran Instincts (1), Autothrusters (2)

Red Squadron Veteran (31)

R3-A2 (2), Predator (3), Integrated Astromech (0)

There is room to change this around too depending on your meta. And when the PS 9 version of Poe comes out there will be even more room to change.

I originally flew Wedge with R2-D2 and Red Vet with Wired (rather than Predator). I found Keeping Wedge from being shot at all (w/BB-8) was better than predictable movements and 1 shield health regin.

For more maneuverability, Wedge can be replaced with Ello Asty, but I have found that be best defense is a good offense. Dead ships can't shoot back.

I am impressed with your list, your moxie and your obvious pilot skill. This should give lots of players confidence in the X-wing putting up a good fight.

I always resist whining and look at any phrase "A can't beat B" or the like as a challenge. However, I hope that FFG doesn't go the nerf route again as they did on the Phantom as I still have problems remembering that fix when I fly them and I want to issue some payback to a friend who picked factions last, haha. I find in life, rarely does retro-active alterations and complication fix much of anything.

I'd love to watch you fly the X's in a bout against the meta that has everyone nervous/anxious/pained/irritated. That would be fun!

I've never played in a tournament that records or live streams their events. One of the best ways to pick up on mistakes you were not even aware you are making is to watch video of yourself. When I played ice hockey I did this often.

The new T-70 X-wing is a great all around ship. It has a very good dial, is durable, has a range of actions, and hits hard. There are many that seem to think the old X-wing still needs a "fix", but I've found that IA was just what the doctor ordered. While the T-65 still does not have post dial movement, the T-70 does and the Red Vet gives the X-wing a generic pilot with an EPT. I don't think there is too much more that can be done for the T-65 that doesn't just make it a T-70.

The meta is overwhelmed right now. SOOOOOO much new stuff came out and very quickly (after a bit of a dry spell) and we are all still experimenting with the new toys. I don't see FFG nerfing anything. That is the nuclear option and FFG has done a great job of avoiding reprints and total rule changes in this game.

To avoid overnerfing, we just need to find a reasonable way to put a *minor* nerf so that the 3JM list is not so appealing, but that 1 or 2 (edit: with some other companion ship, which promotes diversity) still makes sense in competitive lists.

You understand that is already happening. Zuckuss is already making good showings with 2 u boats.

Cannon that disables weapons? Have you heard about the new defenders?

Broken horrible idea not happening.

It could be a missile or a torpedo. Or it be a non-damage capped cannon that costs 4 or more so it doesn't work with TIE/D.

To avoid overnerfing, we just need to find a reasonable way to put a *minor* nerf so that the 3JM list is not so appealing, but that 1 or 2 (edit: with some other companion ship, which promotes diversity) still makes sense in competitive lists.

You understand that is already happening. Zuckuss is already making good showings with 2 u boats.

List with 2 u-boats and something else become more and more popular. Manaroo, Contracted Scout and Palob finished 2nd at Endor Open in Poland.

I played against a triple toilet seat last night. And if my red dice hadn't been sound asleep I'd have actually stood a chance. That included a B-Wing that took 2 proton volleys and a pair of range 1 turret shots to finish off. And a Green Squadron A-Wing with prockets **** near killed one all by himself in 3 turns.

So basically I retract my loathing of the design decisions that allowed the Wolfpack to exist. But I am going to extend my pity to those folks who think it's the only way to win these days. One or two more games and I doubt I'll have any fear of them outside another outbreak of cold dice.