When crafting melee or brawl weapons, what might the Breach Quality be worth in the Spending chart? Two Triumphs? Three?

I don't see it listed. Sunder is worth one Triumph (or four Advantages). Concussive is worth two.

The crafter's firstborn.

I'm sure it was left off of the general results and limited to missiles intentionally.

So, three Triumphs?

I wouldnt allow it.

That is actually a really easy question. 30 advantages or 10 triumphs for range weapons or any mix between those. 20 advantages or 10 triumphs. 16 for vibro weapons, good luck with your rolls. IIRC 14 advantages was so far my best roll.

Breach is pretty much left to lightsabers and missiles for balance. Push it out to any range weapon and that's out the window imo. Push it out to any brawl/melee weapon and I think you take away the uniqueness of lightsabers.

Its not on the chart for a reason.

Allow it at your own risk.

Crafting a weapon with breach also steps on the toes of the Heavy Hitter talent. A once per session talent that takes 170 XP to reach. That makes me think the developers wanted breach to be very, very rare.

Breach is pretty much left to lightsabers and missiles for balance. Push it out to any range weapon and that's out the window imo. Push it out to any brawl/melee weapon and I think you take away the uniqueness of lightsabers.

Morgukai Cortosis Staff has breach and is a melee weapon

Breach is pretty much left to lightsabers and missiles for balance. Push it out to any range weapon and that's out the window imo. Push it out to any brawl/melee weapon and I think you take away the uniqueness of lightsabers.

Morgukai Cortosis Staff has breach and is a melee weapon

And it's rarity 10 with zero HPs, not something the ship's mechanic can whip up on an Average Difficulty roll in the shop.

Yeah, Breach was deliberately not included on the list of available weapon qualities, simply for reasons of game balance.

Lightsabers can have breach, but that's balanced by the fact that a proper kyber crystal costs several thousand credits at the bare minimum, are Rarity 10, and Restricted on top of it. In EotE and AoR, finding a lightsaber is meant to be akin to getting your hands on Excaliber or Masamune or some similarly legendary weapon.

Thermal detonators are hand-held weapons of mass destruction, essentially being a pocket nuke that largely ensures a hefty body count if the Blast quality triggers, since unlike other grenades, a TD's Blast hits everything within short range of the original target.

Missile tubes are military-grade hardware intended to take out lightly-armored vehicles.

Being able to add Breach to any random hand-crafted weapon throws game balance out the window, since you then create the potential for a knife or handgun to effectively ignore the soak value of a character-scale target.

I'm getting worried that I'll be spending all of today's "Likes" on 2P51's posts in this thread alone. Breach was left out of the table for a very good reason. It has, in my opinion, no place in personal weapons beyond lightsabers and the occasional oddity like the Morgukai staff. If you let players create blaster pistols with Breach game balance goes right to hell.

I'm getting worried that I'll be spending all of today's "Likes" on 2P51's posts in this thread alone. Breach was left out of the table for a very good reason. It has, in my opinion, no place in personal weapons beyond lightsabers and the occasional oddity like the Morgukai staff. If you let players create blaster pistols with Breach game balance goes right to hell.

Not so sure about that, especially as "balance" is odd from the beginning already anyway. And as mentioned, 30 advantages give you pierce 10. So prepare for a few rolls, but it actually should be doable even for blasters. ;-)

I'm getting worried that I'll be spending all of today's "Likes" on 2P51's posts in this thread alone. Breach was left out of the table for a very good reason. It has, in my opinion, no place in personal weapons beyond lightsabers and the occasional oddity like the Morgukai staff. If you let players create blaster pistols with Breach game balance goes right to hell.

Not so sure about that, especially as "balance" is odd from the beginning already anyway. And as mentioned, 30 advantages give you pierce 10. So prepare for a few roles, but it actually should be doable even for blasters. ;-)

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about with "30 Advantages"'? That would require a minimum of 15 greens or yellows, with no difficulty dice of any kind, and then it's still statistically extremely improbable. You do realize that Advantage doesn't carry over from previous checks, right? And that qualities you buy with one check don't carry over and stack the next time you make an item with the same template? You are never, evrer going to get Pierce 10 on any weapon.

I'm getting worried that I'll be spending all of today's "Likes" on 2P51's posts in this thread alone. Breach was left out of the table for a very good reason. It has, in my opinion, no place in personal weapons beyond lightsabers and the occasional oddity like the Morgukai staff. If you let players create blaster pistols with Breach game balance goes right to hell.

Not so sure about that, especially as "balance" is odd from the beginning already anyway. And as mentioned, 30 advantages give you pierce 10. So prepare for a few roles, but it actually should be doable even for blasters. ;-)

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about with "30 Advantages"'? That would require a minimum of 15 greens or yellows, with no difficulty dice of any kind, and then it's still statistically extremely improbable. You do realize that Advantage doesn't carry over from previous checks, right? And that qualities you buy with one check don't carry over and stack the next time you make an item with the same template? You are never, evrer going to get Pierce 10 on any weapon.

Yeah I do realize this and actually you can carry advantages somewhat over if you buy boosts dice for them. You need basically two extremely good rolls and furthermore are so experience with the template that you reduced the difficulty massively already. As I said, this might take "some" rolls, but it seems certainly possible. Having access to double or nothing and/or unmatched calibration certainly will help, assist boost dices from your co-workers. You can basically gain the first about 15 advantages in your first role, buy 13 boost dies, gain iirc 2 auto-advantages from custom crafted tools and your low-gravity workshop , gain maybe another few extra boost from your research records, reduce difficulty two zero. get int 7, mechanic 5, upgrade with superior craftsmanship that pool as well. to 6 yellow, one green and be extremely lucky with rolling.

If you have acquired all this it becomes a matter of patience and doing it over and over and over again. And as said, on vibroweapons it becomes 20 advantages, that should be a lot easier to reach.Improbable? Yes, very. Feel free to add a rank or 5 of inventor on top of it.

Couple of problems (at the very least) there sparky.

One, if the GM is allowing a PC to pass themselves that many boost dice from one crafting check to the next, or to let a player be that much of a power-gaming munchkin in a system that generally discourages power-gaming munchkinism, that GM deserves to be whacked in the head with a bat.

Two, PCs are generally restricted to only passing a single boost dice from one roll to a specific PC. This is noted on the chart of suggestions for how to spend Advantage as the "pass a boost die" is lacking the "can be done more than once" that spending Advantage to recover strain specifically has noted. So while a PC could spend 6 advantage to pass 3 boost dice, they'd have to be to separate individuals, not all to the same person.

Yeah I do realize this and actually you can carry advantages somewhat over if you buy boosts dice for them. You need basically two extremely good roles and furthermore are so experience with the template that you reduced the difficulty massively already. As I said, this might take "some" rolls, but it seems certainly possible. Having access to double or nothing and/or unmatched calibration certainly will help, assist boost dices from your co-workers. You can basically gain the first about 15 advantages in your first role, buy 13 boost dies, gain iirc 2 auto-advantages from custom crafted tools and your low-gravity workshop , gain maybe another few extra boost from your research records, reduce difficulty two zero. get int 7, mechanic 5, upgrade with superior craftsmanship that pool as well. to 6 yellow, one green and be extremely lucky with rolling.

If you have acquired all this it becomes a matter of patience and doing it over and over and over again. And as said, on vibroweapons it becomes 20 advantages, that should be a lot easier to reach.Improbable? Yes, very. Feel free to add a rank or 5 of inventor on top of it.

Ah, I see. We're on the planet called "hypothetical ultimate best-case scenarios". Not the planet I live on, but whatever.

Your build assumes unlimited XP, unlimited money, unlimited time, a GM literally asleep at the table and a group of fellow players who don't mind in the least that an entire evening is spent watching you roll dice over and over and over again. Sure, given those circumstances you could, eventually, get Pierce 10 on a weapon. Congratulations.

Edit: Ninja'd by Donovan. Well put, sir.

Couple of problems (at the very least) there sparky.

One, if the GM is allowing a PC to pass themselves that many boost dice from one crafting check to the next, or to let a player be that much of a power-gaming munchkin in a system that generally discourages power-gaming munchkinism, that GM deserves to be whacked in the head with a bat.

Two, PCs are generally restricted to only passing a single boost dice from one roll to a specific PC. This is noted on the chart of suggestions for how to spend Advantage as the "pass a boost die" is lacking the "can be done more than once" that spending Advantage to recover strain specifically has noted. So while a PC could spend 6 advantage to pass 3 boost dice, they'd have to be to separate individuals, not all to the same person.

The crafting table itself requires a single advantage to pass a boost die to your own next crafting check, all options which can only be taken once have this specifically noted in the table as well. A boost dice is not one of them. The research data specifically allows you to take advantages from previous rolls and not just the the last roll before the current check. The whole crafting system is about determination, improving your skill via practise and tons of advantages to achieve similar stats to those of already published equipment.

Anyway whack your own silly head, because claiming power-gaming and munchkin attitude when crafting something which is still doing less damage than standard non-crafting gear is super silly. For the claim that the role is so mathematical rare, grab your dice and test it, the 20 advantages for a vibro weapon with pierce 10 worked out directly in two rolls twice in a row.

Example:

The solid Projectile Rifle Pattern comes with damage 7, crit 5, range medium, encum 5, 1 hp and cumbersome 2. Even with those 30 advantages you will still lacking somewhat to the Verpine Shatter Rifle which has a damage of 12, crit 3, extreme range, encum 3 and 3 hardpoints, plus pierce 4 and knockdown. .

I could go on with more examples for about any weapon type.

Sam don't thinks that not canceling all all threats to gain a few extra advantages would be a bad thing, having some negative side effects to improve the design of the crafting item. The system is meant to thinker for literally years on your dream items, while having the ability to build quick and dirty standard items when nothing else is available. Anything else would be mechanically pointless anyway gathering the materials to craft something is usually about as hard to just finding the item.

And btw, I don't think that casing a pierce 10 weapon would be worthwhile as there are much better weapons out and it indeed should normally be a long journey to craft such a thing, crafting takes time, a lot of in-game time to be specific, Building for example our two shopping droids took about 100 hours, finding 100 hours of free time alone is a challenge and a genius inventor player character will not overthrow the whole galaxy just because he spend most of his xp into crafting to build something out of the ordinary. Whatever crafting will result in, it not mass fabrikated anyway and as mentioned earlier, as the templates are made very conservative all those mass fabricated items which you can buy easily on the core world of your choice will still in general perform better … at least the good ones.

So I really don't get what you are so upset about those extreme cases of crafting. By any chance, are you the same guys who are upset about auto-fire and jury rigging? ;-)

Not upset about auto-fire + Jury Rigged combo, since as a GM I can throw down opposition that's far worse and turn the PC into a greasy smear if I so choose. But then I'm lucky that I don't have players that are power-gaming munchkins who'd try to abuse the system that way in the first place.

And given how you're trying to twist the system to exploit it for maximum mechanical benefit... that's classic munchkin power-gaming to a T.

But hey, if you want to go have your lonely fun trying to build the perfect weapon or perfect armor to the exclusion of all else, go right ahead. Any player that tried that at my table would be told to stay home and have fun rolling dice all by their lonesome while the rest of us enjoy a fun adventure where the PCs actually accomplish something of merit.

As Krieger22 said, Planet "Hypothetical Ultimate Best Case Scenario" isn't the planet we live on.

As Krieger22 said, Planet "Hypothetical Ultimate Best Case Scenario" isn't the planet we live on.

Allow me to correct : It is not the planet YOU live on.

Maybe other player/GM are. Maybe they are having fun this way.

Maybe one of them want to come here and ask a single simple Question : How much would cost the breach Quality on a weapon ?

Apparently you tend to think that there is no cost that can be balanced : OK.

You can express it the same way like many other did before. There is no need for the "that GM deserves to be whacked in the head with a bat" part.

If you can't accept the paradigm brought by the OP : OK

But no need to spit on it.

Back to the OP:

To me the breach quality is more linked to the core design of a weapon than to a fine tuning/optimisation.

Light Saber got it cause it's some kind of plasma torche.

Beam drill got it for the same reason.

Missiles got it cause it is a AP weapon, more designed to shoot vehicules than critters.

You should try to design with your player/GM a new template, that does include this heavy AP aspect. A magnetic pulse blade that does stun biological creature through armor (kind of a SF classic) could be granted Breach + Stun damage.

Not upset about auto-fire + Jury Rigged combo, since as a GM I can throw down opposition that's far worse and turn the PC into a greasy smear if I so choose. But then I'm lucky that I don't have players that are power-gaming munchkins who'd try to abuse the system that way in the first place.

And given how you're trying to twist the system to exploit it for maximum mechanical benefit... that's classic munchkin power-gaming to a T.

But hey, if you want to go have your lonely fun trying to build the perfect weapon or perfect armor to the exclusion of all else, go right ahead. Any player that tried that at my table would be told to stay home and have fun rolling dice all by their lonesome while the rest of us enjoy a fun adventure where the PCs actually accomplish something of merit.

As Krieger22 said, Planet "Hypothetical Ultimate Best Case Scenario" isn't the planet we live on.

Ironically how you call me a munchkin power gamer and going on that to a perfect example of those gruesome railroading GMs who want to have their pcs actually accomplish something of merit. We seem to be from different planets indeed, I reside on a character driven systems while you seem to come from a d&d train which lines the PC up to follow the lead to accomplish the goals of the textbook adventure. SCNR. I bet that impression I have is just as wrong as yours, but we seem to be really from different planets.

Acquiring the tools, materials and the knowledge alone can be a whole adventure, and as I said, PC time is anyway limited, so speaking of whole session of just rolls sounds like a quite crude interpretation of crafting in RPGs in general. Degrading it to just throwing rolls sounds like degrading combat or social encounters to just rolls. Speaking of that, Chronicles of the Gatekeeper sounds like at its core it is a adventure about acquiring materials for a crafting roll. ;-)

I just rule no Jury rigging auto fire, without previous discussion with the GM.

Edit: Wrong topic.

Hey Uthanono, before you get yourself too worked up, maybe consider the person I was responding to with those last couple posts wasn't the original poster, who asked a sensible question that got answered quite early in the thread.

Instead, it was to SEApoc, who was looking to power-game the system with an utterly outrageous scenario that would require an extremely lucky roll using a dice pool that's generally bonkers while also twisting the general intent of the rules to try and produce that scenario.

But hey, you want to go charging off half-cocked on misinformation, that's your business.

Not upset about auto-fire + Jury Rigged combo, since as a GM I can throw down opposition that's far worse and turn the PC into a greasy smear if I so choose. But then I'm lucky that I don't have players that are power-gaming munchkins who'd try to abuse the system that way in the first place.

And given how you're trying to twist the system to exploit it for maximum mechanical benefit... that's classic munchkin power-gaming to a T.

But hey, if you want to go have your lonely fun trying to build the perfect weapon or perfect armor to the exclusion of all else, go right ahead. Any player that tried that at my table would be told to stay home and have fun rolling dice all by their lonesome while the rest of us enjoy a fun adventure where the PCs actually accomplish something of merit.

As Krieger22 said, Planet "Hypothetical Ultimate Best Case Scenario" isn't the planet we live on.

Ironically how you call me a munchkin power gamer and going on that to a perfect example of those gruesome railroading GMs who want to have their pcs actually accomplish something of merit. We seem to be from different planets indeed, I reside on a character driven systems while you seem to come from a d&d train which lines the PC up to follow the lead to accomplish the goals of the textbook adventure. SCNR. I bet that impression I have is just as wrong as yours, but we seem to be really from different planets.

Acquiring the tools, materials and the knowledge alone can be a whole adventure, and as I said, PC time is anyway limited, so speaking of whole session of just rolls sounds like a quite crude interpretation of crafting in RPGs in general. Degrading it to just throwing rolls sounds like degrading combat or social encounters to just rolls. Speaking of that, Chronicles of the Gatekeeper sounds like at its core it is a adventure about acquiring materials for a crafting roll. ;-)

But the point you so clearly missed in your hurry to be "right" is that while as I GM I "could" do those things, the simply matter is that I DON'T.

But you've long since proven here and in multiple other that you're not really worth trying to have a conversation with, as you can't begin to comprehend the notion that you might not be 100% in the right, so go ahead and do whatever floats your little boat.

*adds to Ignore list*