Need a ruling by FFG

By loki_tbc, in X-Wing Organized Play

Can anyone AT FFG please provide a ruling on whether or not dial cheatsheets are allowed?

I had a judge give me grief about a phone, sitting on a table, not being touched, displaying the dial from a ship I wasn't familiar with.

Are maneuver dials supposed to be secret now?!?

His movement dial yes. The way you did no. No different then asking to look at a dial your opponent has. I did at Regionale because I wasn't very up to date on the Ghost.

How is looking at the dial sheet any different than looking at the dial. This is not a memory game. It's a tactical minis game. If dials are open info, why aren't the maneuvers on them open info?

Edited by loki_tbc

In short, you having access to know all of his maneuvers without you providing access to all of your maneuvers is unfair. If you printed out maneuver sheets for the ships you were flying and handed them to your opponent at the beginning of the game, no problem. If not, you are creating an advantageous position for yourself where you are consistently getting more information than your opponent.

And yes, because you want to do this the onus is on you to provide the sheets. I shouldn't have to waste phone battery looking stuff up because you want the sheets in front of you. Memorize the dials, or at the very least memorize the important parts.

In short, you having access to know all of his maneuvers without you providing access to all of your maneuvers is unfair. If you printed out maneuver sheets for the ships you were flying and handed them to your opponent at the beginning of the game, no problem. If not, you are creating an advantageous position for yourself where you are consistently getting more information than your opponent.

And yes, because you want to do this the onus is on you to provide the sheets. I shouldn't have to waste phone battery looking stuff up because you want the sheets in front of you. Memorize the dials, or at the very least memorize the important parts.

The dial is public information. If you want to know the dial, just ask. I will even lend you my dial sheet if you like. It's weird to accuse the players for being prepared and un-call for accuse them of unfairness.

X-wing is not a memorizing game.

In short, you having access to know all of his maneuvers without you providing access to all of your maneuvers is unfair. If you printed out maneuver sheets for the ships you were flying and handed them to your opponent at the beginning of the game, no problem. If not, you are creating an advantageous position for yourself where you are consistently getting more information than your opponent.

And yes, because you want to do this the onus is on you to provide the sheets. I shouldn't have to waste phone battery looking stuff up because you want the sheets in front of you. Memorize the dials, or at the very least memorize the important parts.

The dial is public information. If you want to know the dial, just ask. I will even lend you my dial sheet if you like. It's weird to accuse the players for being prepared and un-call for accuse them of unfairness.

X-wing is not a memorizing game.

The dial is public information, but you are wrong when you say that xwing is not a memorization game. Good players memorize stuff all the time. For instance, starting ship placement. You explicitly cannot bring a template to place your ships by as that provides "unfair advantage." It seems in this case you would call that being prepared. I understand that the ship dials are public, and multiple people ask if they can pull up the ship dial for stuff I am flying (I always say yes), but I can understand why someone might get annoyed by this.

What if I was being prepared by getting copius tactics of how to face down each individual ship? Would that be allowed? Its not a memorization game after all.

I can't find it now, but I swore there was a portion of the rules that talked about all outside notes, reference material is not allowed. I think this was done so that people stopped checking spreadsheets to help them make a choice on what shot to make (excel sheets with expected results based on dice and modifications). This was extended to ALL outside material. However, I have seen since then (even at Hoth) squad printouts with dials on them. As others have said, you can always ask your opponent to see their dial. I sure as hell don't remember the K turns on a G1A, and sure did ask my opponent about it during a match. No problem.

I guess this is the one time as a player I really like those new dial upgrades, because you can hand it to your opponent for very quick and easy reference. I usually use this squadbuilder

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build#

and have printouts with cards and dials for opponents reference (2 pages tops). Getting that to my opponent promotes faster play in case they need to reference any card or dial on my side. And I really wish more opponents would do that for me, because I don't have every single thing in X-Wing memorized!

I also recall the no outside material during the game. However, I do not believe it restricts it from the building. I think (but do not know for sure) you could look at it while you are getting set up.

In short, you having access to know all of his maneuvers without you providing access to all of your maneuvers is unfair. If you printed out maneuver sheets for the ships you were flying and handed them to your opponent at the beginning of the game, no problem. If not, you are creating an advantageous position for yourself where you are consistently getting more information than your opponent.

And yes, because you want to do this the onus is on you to provide the sheets. I shouldn't have to waste phone battery looking stuff up because you want the sheets in front of you. Memorize the dials, or at the very least memorize the important parts.

The dial is public information. If you want to know the dial, just ask. I will even lend you my dial sheet if you like. It's weird to accuse the players for being prepared and un-call for accuse them of unfairness.

X-wing is not a memorizing game.

The dial is public information, but you are wrong when you say that xwing is not a memorization game. Good players memorize stuff all the time. For instance, starting ship placement. You explicitly cannot bring a template to place your ships by as that provides "unfair advantage." It seems in this case you would call that being prepared. I understand that the ship dials are public, and multiple people ask if they can pull up the ship dial for stuff I am flying (I always say yes), but I can understand why someone might get annoyed by this.

What if I was being prepared by getting copius tactics of how to face down each individual ship? Would that be allowed? Its not a memorization game after all.

What I mean when I say X-wing is not a memorization game is that memorization is not a requirement to play. You can certainly be a better player if you memorize a few key strategy or tactic.

The T.O. probably is aware of the past instance where a player was looking at his phone and reading the texts from his buddies (who where on the other side of the table and could see what the other player was dialling in and texting that to him). It probably had more to do with your phone than the maneuver charts.

But, ship maneuvers aren't secret info and can be referenced. Go for an analogue printed sheet next time to save the hassle.

TO is wrong in this instance.

In short, you having access to know all of his maneuvers without you providing access to all of your maneuvers is unfair. If you printed out maneuver sheets for the ships you were flying and handed them to your opponent at the beginning of the game, no problem. If not, you are creating an advantageous position for yourself where you are consistently getting more information than your opponent.

And yes, because you want to do this the onus is on you to provide the sheets. I shouldn't have to waste phone battery looking stuff up because you want the sheets in front of you. Memorize the dials, or at the very least memorize the important parts.

Memorising the dials is not required, and you should (according to the rules) keep a ref sheet on hand for your opponent. If you don't have a ref sheet for your ships, then offer your dials for the opponent to look at, just spin 'em round first.

However, using your phone is different, since you could in theory be cheating. it's a bit of a stretch though.

In every single expansion pack is an image of the maneuvers possible, and it says on there "keep this dial reference to show your opponent". Hence, you can see dials if you want.

Had this conversation with FFG OP on Twitter the other day.

GNd9Ae5l.jpg

I can understand a TO being wary of phone use within a tournament, I could easily setup an offline file with probabilities in it if I wanted to.

A blanket "no phones on the table" ruling is easier to enforce than a "Phones are allowed on the table only if xxx" rule.

As it stands, it's just easier to have the printout on the table - I can share that printout with my opponent if he asks and everyone is happy.

Edited by KMitchell