I always try to build the best lists and if by that it means they will mimic 95% of other competitive lists so what? What is so bad about it?

From my perspective, aren't constant mirror matches, or the same except for one upgrade, just really really dull? Wouldn't it be more fun if you have six rounds of X-wing lined up to face a different list every time? It's a case of different strokes for different folks I guess.

You could always be the guy who runs, Wes, Biggs and a fully loaded nera.

A guy actually won a local tourney I played in with loaded nera, jake, and tycho.

I always try to build the best lists and if by that it means they will mimic 95% of other competitive lists so what? What is so bad about it?

From my perspective, aren't constant mirror matches, or the same except for one upgrade, just really really dull? Wouldn't it be more fun if you have six rounds of X-wing lined up to face a different list every time? It's a case of different strokes for different folks I guess.

That's how I feel, but I've talked to people about this. To them, all the variance goes out the window and it comes down to pure skill (in their eyes). They see that when everyone is flying the same thing that it comes down to only the best pilots win. So, it's almost a more pure version of X-wing that way and gets rid of all the annoying aspects (from their perspective).

Me? I get bored playing the same lists. I remember last Regionals I played back to back identical Bro Bots (that I won w/ Xizor & 5 Z-95's).

There is the thing that if you are playing an oddball list that you have practiced to beat meta lists, that it just becomes automatic to fly them effectively. I kept flying a specific way and I kept expecting them to pull some crazy move out as they saw what I was doing, but most people didn't and I ended up winning. I usually play that way until I hit something I'm not used to or my dice fail me.

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

I always find the, "but I love to fly Fel or the Inquisitor" crowd. Duh! Who doesn't like driving the Ferarri? It's no special accomplishment that you win a few games flying a netlist with the best ships. Unfortunately many of that group couldn't produce a winning list from their own brain if their life depended on it. There's a huge difference between beating plebes with a top tier list you've worn out because you "like to fly Fel" and beating top level players. Too many players think they're better than they are. Especially given, occasionally a top build covers bad mistakes. Know your role. Until you've got victories vs half a dozen different SC level players or higher you likely aren't that great even if you're good "your" list that you "love flying". What Ive seen is that the best players I know are always experimenting and changing lists. If you haven't won a large tournament, SC, Regional or better you're most likely one of the unwashed masses like the rest of us, don't kid yourself. If you aren't kidding yourself play for fun. If you're playing for fun why not try something different or new?

There is another thread somewhere in this forum where original poster asked: "What do you want in X-Wing?"

And reading this post I want to say: "I want X-Wing to be the game where there will be no dudes trying to tell me how should I play or how should I have fun."

P.S. What do you mean "playing for fun"? Because I am pretty sure people playing for win are exactly playing for fun - except they found satisfaction not in playing with suboptimal list but in outsmarting oppononent. I always try to build the best lists and if by that it means they will mimic 95% of other competitive lists so what? What is so bad about it?

I'm not tying to tell you how to play the game. I'm telling you that if you're a 95% netlister you're not as good as you think you are and you're likely incapable of original thought (at least when it comes to X-Wing) so you'd better enjoy it cause it's all you've got. It's the difference between an automaton and a genius. You can copy, others can conceive. Which is better? Try it man. Step down off you safety ledge and create an original list. If and when you win with it you'll enjoy it much more. The fun of winning is subject to diminishing returns. When you play a top tier netlist you expect to win, therefore you don't have as much joy when you do.

I recently played against a local player who won the tournament of store champions held in our area (for reference a top 16 player at worlds last year didn't even make the top 8 cut in that tournament). He flew a powerful top tier list (to his credit he was one of the first to develop it). I flew my own funky take on BroBots. Frankly, we both thought he would win. I'm certain the satisfaction I got out of beating him was exponentially higher than he would have got out of beating me. I know this because I have played hi and lost to him before. I'm a decent player but I've come up with some very fun competitive original lists. I enjoy the game much more as a 50-60% winner with my own lists then I would as an 80% winner with all the best toys and someone else's ideas. But maybe you enjoy being a soulless robot with a good record?

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

You are the most anti-fun tryhard I have ever seen and this forum has PGS. The point of this thread also went right over your head. I also bet you aren't half as good as you believe.

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

You are the most anti-fun tryhard I have ever seen and this forum has PGS. The point of this thread also went right over your head. I also bet you aren't half as good as you believe.

I'm 100% pro fun and I think at tournaments I try as much as the average player there. I'm also exactly as good as I believe I am. Do you see me telling others what to fly or how to have fun? Funny thing about fun is that it's different for everyone.

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

You are the most anti-fun tryhard I have ever seen and this forum has PGS. The point of this thread also went right over your head. I also bet you aren't half as good as you believe.

I'm 100% pro fun and I think at tournaments I try as much as the average player there. I'm also exactly as good as I believe I am. Do you see me telling others what to fly or how to have fun? Funny thing about fun is that it's different for everyone.

Then why convey your point with such a disgustingly snobby attitude? Gives the impression that you are compensating for something to be honest...

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

You are the most anti-fun tryhard I have ever seen and this forum has PGS. The point of this thread also went right over your head. I also bet you aren't half as good as you believe.

I'm 100% pro fun and I think at tournaments I try as much as the average player there. I'm also exactly as good as I believe I am. Do you see me telling others what to fly or how to have fun? Funny thing about fun is that it's different for everyone.

Then why convey your point with such a disgustingly snobby attitude? Gives the impression that you are compensating for something to be honest...

Because this is the internet which isn't a "safe space"

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

You are the most anti-fun tryhard I have ever seen and this forum has PGS. The point of this thread also went right over your head. I also bet you aren't half as good as you believe.

I'm 100% pro fun and I think at tournaments I try as much as the average player there. I'm also exactly as good as I believe I am. Do you see me telling others what to fly or how to have fun? Funny thing about fun is that it's different for everyone.

Then why convey your point with such a disgustingly snobby attitude? Gives the impression that you are compensating for something to be honest...

Because this is the internet which isn't a "safe space"

I'm not concerned about myself, it is you that makes a fool of himself.

Maybe you have something to add to this thread. I doubt it, but lets just assume you do. Either you express it like a decent human being would do and have people consider what you say, or you do what you do right now being the "dank troll" and thereby making everone assume you have nothing to say that is of value.

I belive it was Cornwallace in the Patriot who said "These rustics are so inept. It nearly takes the honor out of victory. Nearly."

The English and the Scots must love having their national heroes squashed into one entity. . .

We are used to Hollywood distorting history, just look at braveheart.

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

My original post states, "If you don't like seeing this game devolve in to Palp Aces vs Uboats vs Imp Aholes", indicating that those players such as yourself who could care less if that happened and think anyone who doesn't netlist is a scrub, aren't being referenced in this post. This is an attempt to allow players to see that, while not necessarily easier, it is, in my opinion, a more worthwhile route to not netlist. It is also worth noting that it is not impossible to win with something original or something that is outside of the meta.

The regional results from Roanoke (winner flew an Alpha Interceptor), Albuquerque (winner flew 5 Awings), Rochester (5 Awings), Wixom (RAC + Whisper, 2nd place was Dengar + Manaroo), Linköping (Dash + Chopper), Murray (Zuckuss, Tel, Palob), and Broomfield (Munitions Bossk and Dengar), are plenty enough evidence for me to keep being creative and not take something I did not create on my own.

I do want to note though that in Europe, if regional results are to be used as my only reference, the Spike mentality that you have RedAce seems to be much more prevalent. Their regionals have nearly all been won by either Palp Aces or Uboats. If I saw results be that consistent throughout the world, I would not have posted this topic, as results would have been contrary to what I was promoting. But, due to the regional results listed above, I felt passionate enough to post this topic for anyone like myself who, as previously stated, does not want the game to simply be Palp Aces vs Uboats vs Imp Aholes.

ITT: Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Keep putting these self imposed limitations on yourself and cry about things being broken and wonder why you keep losing.

You are the most anti-fun tryhard I have ever seen and this forum has PGS. The point of this thread also went right over your head. I also bet you aren't half as good as you believe.

I'm 100% pro fun and I think at tournaments I try as much as the average player there. I'm also exactly as good as I believe I am. Do you see me telling others what to fly or how to have fun? Funny thing about fun is that it's different for everyone.

Then why convey your point with such a disgustingly snobby attitude? Gives the impression that you are compensating for something to be honest...

Because this is the internet which isn't a "safe space"

I'm not concerned about myself, it is you that makes a fool of himself.

Maybe you have something to add to this thread. I doubt it, but lets just assume you do. Either you express it like a decent human being would do and have people consider what you say, or you do what you do right now being the "dank troll" and thereby making everone assume you have nothing to say that is of value.

Well I guess have fun getting nowhere in life with that attitude.

I don't think anyone who doesn't net list is a scrub. I think someone who puts arbitrary limitations on themselves and then complains about the game is a scrub. I have no limitations. I'll fly whatever it is I want to fly. The last thing from my mind when I'm building and selecting a list is what will people think of me. I'm all for there being a ton of different and crazy lists.

Well I guess have fun getting nowhere in life with that attitude.

I'm living the dream. I've got my dream career, my dream girl, plenty of extra time and money to spend on hobbies like this.

I don't think anyone who doesn't net list is a scrub. I think someone who puts arbitrary limitations on themselves and then complains about the game is a scrub. I have no limitations. I'll fly whatever it is I want to fly. The last thing from my mind when I'm building and selecting a list is what will people think of me. I'm all for there being a ton of different and crazy lists.

In that case I apologize, as that was not what I understood from the tone of your post I replied to.

I don't think anyone who doesn't net list is a scrub. I think someone who puts arbitrary limitations on themselves and then complains about the game is a scrub. I have no limitations. I'll fly whatever it is I want to fly. The last thing from my mind when I'm building and selecting a list is what will people think of me. I'm all for there being a ton of different and crazy lists.

In that case I apologize, as that was not what I understood from the tone of your post I replied to.

Its also not what his "point" from his first post was:

I LOVE people who bring creative lists. Nothing better than drawing softball match first round in a tournament to get an easy round 1 victory since you used your bye at the last one. Also they're good fallbacks in case something happens and you lose your first game you know you're fine since now you'll be playing the "fun table lists"

I belive it was Cornwallace in the Patriot who said "These rustics are so inept. It nearly takes the honor out of victory. Nearly."

Well I guess have fun getting nowhere in life with that attitude.

I'm living the dream. I've got my dream career, my dream girl, plenty of extra time and money to spend on hobbies like this.

Not to mention the time to troll anyone who disagrees with you.

What qualifies as 'netlisting' is also very difficult to quantify. After all, X-wing isn't that complicated. It's not Rocket Science to realize Scouts with torps are good, or that putting Palpatine in a shuttle (one of the 2 Imperial ships that can carry him) and filling the rest with aces is good. It's difficult to ascertain that somebody using a meta list did or did not reach such conclusions on his own.

Well I guess have fun getting nowhere in life with that attitude.

I'm living the dream. I've got my dream career, my dream girl, plenty of extra time and money to spend on hobbies like this.

Not to mention the time to troll anyone who disagrees with you.

What qualifies as 'netlisting' is also very difficult to quantify. After all, X-wing isn't that complicated. It's not Rocket Science to realize Scouts with torps are good, or that putting Palpatine in a shuttle (one of the 2 Imperial ships that can carry him) and filling the rest with aces is good. It's difficult to ascertain that somebody using a meta list did or did not reach such conclusions on his own.

True. There are so few viable configurations for each ship that list building mostly is piecing together what bricks fit well. For the bolded part, though, I remember quite a few people saying they would be too gimmicky to work when U-Boats were first theorized. It always takes someone to be brave and try out something new to advance the meta.

There is something to be said for trying new things out. IMO Atanni Mindlink Brobots are better that crackstim bots and I had to have a multi-page debate about it.

K-Wings were branded as not efficient (even though they have no doughnut) and Aaron Bonar brought us Danger Zone.

So yeah, obviously don't discard anything that's not the top handful of netlists.

There is something to be said for trying new things out. IMO Atanni Mindlink Brobots are better that crackstim bots and I had to have a multi-page debate about it.

K-Wings were branded as not efficient (even though they have no doughnut) and Aaron Bonar brought us Danger Zone.

So yeah, obviously don't discard anything that's not the top handful of netlists.

Agree, that's what I took to my last tournament. So good.

The guy who won the Roanoake regional is a perfect example of the difference between a mindless netlister and a list building genius. Yes, Palp shuttle is popular, yes Wampa is common in the meta but adding Scourge, Howlrunner and an Alphaceptor was genius and he proved out with it. It's not rocket science and it's not bricklaying either. How many people were playing Heavers worlds list prior to worlds last year? The problem with flying a netlist is that you have to fly it better than all the other sheeple in order to win with it.

I don't think anyone who doesn't net list is a scrub. I think someone who puts arbitrary limitations on themselves and then complains about the game is a scrub. I have no limitations. I'll fly whatever it is I want to fly. The last thing from my mind when I'm building and selecting a list is what will people think of me. I'm all for there being a ton of different and crazy lists.

Can I just say that if some of your other posts were similar to this post then you probably wouldn't have people bristling at your posts. I know this is the internet and the pervasive attitude is one of indifference, but one thing that has made the FFG forums a great place is the general absence of "internet warriors". Most people here are pretty decent to each other and you don't see as much posturing in various threads. You have some constant complainers and whiners, but few truly rude people in the long run. I'm hoping that you aren't going to just be rude to people on a regular basis.

If you are, no worries. I'll just block you now. If not, then I hope you enjoy the FFG forums.